Matt Joye
@mattjoye
A few moments ago on @nflnetwork, Jim Mora said that he'd take Sam Darnold over Josh Rosen if he had the No. 1 overall pick in this year's draft. Here's Mora's reasoning:
- gerbe75pts

I don't see any reasoning.

I hope so, if the Browns take Darnold that leaves Rosen for the Giants.


I'll take that.

Matt Joye
@mattjoye
A few moments ago on @nflnetwork, Jim Mora said that he'd take Sam Darnold over Josh Rosen if he had the No. 1 overall pick in this year's draft. Here's Mora's reasoning:
- gerbe75pts

he's 82 years old

That’s reserved for when Risto gets the puck stolen by Derek McKenzie, not our rook getting burnt by Auston Matthews
- sbroads24

Except Guhle didn't get burned, he fanned on a pass, badly.

Sabres have no business being up a goal the way they're playing.

Except Guhle didn't get burned, he fanned on a pass, badly.
- Wetbandit1

out of curiosity who among the sabres core is not a good player or not worth what hes getting (dollar wise or play time) ?

he's 82 years old
- homiedclown

Maybe Mora Jr? He's 56.

out of curiosity who among the sabres core is not a good player or not worth what hes getting (dollar wise or play time) ?
- Sabresfan-365

Off the top of my head, none of them are over paid.

Sabres have no business being up a goal the way they're playing.
- gcomella34

It's vs the Leafs


Let that sink in a bit .

out of curiosity who among the sabres core is not a good player or not worth what hes getting (dollar wise or play time) ?
- Sabresfan-365

I think we'd have to agree on "core" first. As far as I'm concerned it's 3 players at the moment. Eichel, Reinhart and Risto. Maybe 4 with ROR, and yeah ROR is overpaid slightly, mostly because of the messy offersheet.

Off the top of my head, none of them are over paid.
- gcomella34

liberal

#MAGA

liberal

#MAGA
- washedup20

Especially in capitalism they're over paid relative to production.

In a liberal mentality equality of outcome is what is promised

I think we'd have to agree on "core" first. As far as I'm concerned it's 3 players at the moment. Eichel, Reinhart and Risto. Maybe 4 with ROR, and yeah ROR is overpaid slightly, mostly because of the messy offersheet.
- Wetbandit1

that's fair, of this group of 4 are any of them not worthy of the "core" role they've been given?

that's fair, of this group of 4 are any of them not worthy of the "core" role they've been given?
- Sabresfan-365

Reinhart is a bubble for me, ROR I think is out.

Reinhart is a bubble for me, ROR I think is out.
- gcomella34

I ask cause every time i or broads criticize the response is that our stats are either:

a)cherry picked

b) don't tell some fictional narrative about truculence or whatever the word du jour is now

c) are skewed cause the team is bad.

The last is my favourite because you'd think that even if the bottom 6 is bad, the core would be able to keep this team from dead (frank)ing last, assuming they were worth of the core player title

Especially in capitalism they're over paid relative to production.

In a liberal mentality equality of outcome is what is promised
- gcomella34

Haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOceTDJV5S4

I ask cause every time i or broads criticize the response is that our stats are either:

a)cherry picked

b) don't tell some fictional narrative about truculence or whatever the word du jour is now

c) are skewed cause the team is bad.

The last is my favourite because you'd think that even if the bottom 6 is bad, the core would be able to keep this team from dead (frank)ing last.
- Sabresfan-365

A) Sometimes I feel they are. But not always. Like an earlier comment from Broads denigrating "Culture" by citing Ottawa's record. I define culture differently than most, more in the Organizational Structure sense, not the old time hockey culture. But simply a continual and passionate pursuit of perfection with a toleration of nothing less. Successful organizations have support structures in place to reinforce this mission. Not culture in the sense that his contributions don't show up on the stat sheet. That's not culture to me. I think Botterill refers to culture as the former not the latter.

B) Agreed.

C) I don't think they have enough core players. But I think if they wanted to be competitive (as in chasing a 7-8 spot) they could do so if they get better production out of the bottom 6. But part of this is getting top line players that push our current top line players to their rightful bottom 6, if that makes sense. I think ROR would make a decent third line center. If he's on the third line, I think you have a pretty good team.

D) I think to illustrate your points, both of you try to present extremes. It comes off as all solutions to make the team better is a zero sum game. We need better players and everything will be fine. That's a BIG part of it, but the other part of it is developing a culture of excellence in the scouting staff that identifies and develops that talent. Buffalo's drafting and development has been HORRIBLE for a decade. Part of that is it is accepted, that is a culture. So the answer is more complex than either of you (seem) to allow.

I ask cause every time i or broads criticize the response is that our stats are either:

a)cherry picked

b) don't tell some fictional narrative about truculence or whatever the word du jour is now

c) are skewed cause the team is bad.

The last is my favourite because you'd think that even if the bottom 6 is bad, the core would be able to keep this team from dead (frank)ing last, assuming they were worth of the core player title
- Sabresfan-365

I think it's just a vocal minority who have issues with stats.

I don't see any reasoning.

I hope so, if the Browns take Darnold that leaves Rosen for the Giants.


I'll take that.
- gcomella34

Everyone's jumping off the ledge because that's his coach ( Josh Rosen)

Nolan should be a top 3 forward next year

A) Sometimes I feel they are. But not always. Like an earlier comment from Broads denigrating "Culture" by citing Ottawa's record. I define culture differently than most, more in the Organizational Structure sense, not the old time hockey culture. But simply a continual and passionate pursuit of perfection with a toleration of nothing less. Successful organizations have support structures in place to reinforce this mission. Not culture in the sense that his contributions don't show up on the stat sheet. That's not culture to me. I think Botterill refers to culture as the former not the latter.

B) Agreed.

C) I don't think they have enough core players. But I think if they wanted to be competitive (as in chasing a 7-8 spot) they could do so if they get better production out of the bottom 6. But part of this is getting top line players that push our current top line players to their rightful bottom 6, if that makes sense. I think ROR would make a decent third line center. If he's on the third line, I think you have a pretty good team.

D) I think to illustrate your points, both of you try to present extremes. It comes off as all solutions to make the team better is a zero sum game. We need better players and everything will be fine. That's a BIG part of it, but the other part of it is developing a culture of excellence in the scouting staff that identifies and develops that talent. Buffalo's drafting and development has been HORRIBLE for a decade. Part of that is it is accepted, that is a culture. So the answer is more complex than either of you (seem) to allow.
- gcomella34

I agree with your definition of culture, but if that is in fact the plan, to strive for perfection (or near it) and tolerate nothing less, you have to be willing to treat it like a zero sum game.

I recognize the core isn't complete, but if Ristolainen really was a top pair D and if ROR really was a high end two way centre, this team wouldn't be dead last. They'd still be bad on account of the core being incomplete, just not dead last.

When you only have one player who can move the needle, thats when you end up being dead last. Most of the players here that have been designated core guys, rarely create chances for themselves, let alone chances for their line mates. That's why I take an extreme view. If they were creating but the goals weren't coming that would be one thing. They are doing neither.

When you're 31st three years removed from acquiring your franchise guy, you have to take an extreme approach.

I think it's just a vocal minority who have issues with stats.
- Lunaion

yeah i think im just seeing that minority opinion show up often enough that over the course of a season it feels like a majority opinion.

Everyone's jumping off the ledge because that's his coach ( Josh Rosen)
- gerbe75pts

Oh Ok, I gotcha.

I don't follow college ball all that much.

Is he staying the coach of UCLA? And if he is, is he trying to kill his recruiting for that program?

I'd like to see the full context as a Bruin complementing a Trojan (Darnold is out of USC right? *L) is not a good PR move.

I agree with your definition of culture, but if that is in fact the plan, to strive for perfection (or near it) and tolerate nothing less, you have to be willing to treat it like a zero sum game.

I recognize the core isn't complete, but if Ristolainen really was a top pair D and if ROR really was a high end two way centre, this team wouldn't be dead last. They'd still be bad on account of the core being incomplete, just not dead last.

When you only have one player who can move the needle, thats when you end up being dead last. Most of the players here that have been designated core guys, rarely create chances for themselves, let alone chances for their line mates. That's why I take an extreme view. If they were creating but the goals weren't coming that would be one thing. They are doing neither.

When you're 31st three years removed from acquiring your franchise guy, you have to take an extreme approach.
- Sabresfan-365

That's where I disagree. I never treat things like a zero sum game unless they really are. The solution here isn't an either-or situation. That's part of the reason I like the focus of the success of the Amerks. Is it going to help Mittlestadt? Probably not, because he's not going to be there, but I bet it will Borgen.

Part of that pursuit is making the right decision, not just any decision. I do hold that Risto will be better if they get a more competent D. Is he a one? I can't say that for sure, but yes I think he does get better with better players around and some stability in management.

I'm all for taking extreme steps, but not for the sake of doing them, I want the correct decisions to be made.

Change for the sake of change is RARELY a good thing and more often a DISASTROUS thing. See Murray, Tim.

yeah i think im just seeing that minority opinion show up often enough that over the course of a season it feels like a majority opinion.
- Sabresfan-365

Agreeing with someone's stats is a really boring post. Watching someone argue passionately against a stat is more entertaining than a lot of these games.

That's where I disagree. I never treat things like a zero sum game unless they really are. The solution here isn't an either-or situation. That's part of the reason I like the focus of the success of the Amerks. Is it going to help Mittlestadt? Probably not, because he's not going to be there, but I bet it will Borgen.

Part of that pursuit is making the right decision, not just any decision. I do hold that Risto will be better if they get a more competent D. Is he a one? I can't say that for sure, but yes I think he does get better with better players around and some stability in management.

I'm all for taking extreme steps, but not for the sake of doing them, I want the correct decisions to be made.

Change for the sake of change is RARELY a good thing and more often a DISASTROUS thing. See Murray, Tim.
- gcomella34

It's not for the sake of change, it's for the sake of we're dead last, big change is needed.

I agree that Ristolainen would be better with better players around him, but that by extension means he's not a top pairing guy, and that's a problem.

Same with a guy like Reinhart, and ROR. I suppose you could keep them and add core players moving these guys to complimentary roles. Im just not sure how you add core players without including these guys in the deal or tanking for a few more years.

Edit: to my point about zero sum game, Risto and ROR are not core guys but are being paid like it. So if you did bring in core guys without moving them, you'd be putting them in a complimentary role at a core players salary. That's another problem.