But jd's not talking about on-ice performance making other players better, I don't think. I think he's saying that the Sabres sucked because most of the players on the team aren't good at hockey, and no amount of leadership will make all the not-good players become good players.
- JetpackJesus

Then JD was wrong to quote me because i happen to agree that no amount of leadership can make non core players into core players or fringe AHLers into NHLers.

who says we need someone to come in? and who actually believes ryan o'reilly does that? I mean he should to some extent at 7.5 mil a year, but he doesn't.

We know Eichel can make players around him better and we think Mittelstadt can to a lesser extent.

There's 2 centres who, in time, will become very effective at creating chances for their hopefully semi competent wingers.

Off ice issues aside, ROR brings fringe 2nd/3rd line production at 1st line cost. but hey, he wins draws and pretends to kill penalties
- Sabresfan-365

Ppl keep saying the problem is that “ROR is a bad leader”

Ok, fine...
if that’s true, then what’s the solution?

Does shipping out O’Reilly make our goalies better?
Does it make guys better passers or shooters?


The problem here, is a LACK OF TALENT

Paul Hamilton again today talking about O’Reilly’s inconsistent effort and bad start.

But hey, the guy played a bazillion minutes and managed 61 points. He should be celebrated

Ppl keep saying the problem is that “ROR is a bad leader”

Ok, fine...
if that’s true, then what’s the solution?

Does shipping out O’Reilly make our goalies better?
Does it make guys better passers or shooters?


The problem here, is a LACK OF TALENT
- jdfitz77

The disconnect here is that I happen to believe ROR is part of that lack of talent.

PP production riding Jack's Richard
Average to below average 5v5 production (you want to be a core guy/7.5 mil a year, gotta produce at the toughest game state)
faceoffs
good turnover rate
might make a nice defensive play every now and then


That's the return on our 2nd biggest investment in $. I don't know how that isn't a problem.

Then JD was wrong to quote me because i happen to agree that no amount of leadership can make non core players into core players or fringe AHLers into NHLers.
- Sabresfan-365

I quoted your quote,
Bc u responded to another quote that was dismissive of the point i was trying to make

Which led me to believe that u think this supposed lack of leadership is the problem here

O’Reilly was 6th on the “worst team assembled” in even strength goals.

Shouldn’t he be, at worst 2nd?

Paul Hamilton again today talking about O’Reilly’s inconsistent effort and bad start.

But hey, the guy played a bazillion minutes and managed 61 points. He should be celebrated
- sbroads24

Im making it sound like ROR is the worst asset on the Sabres but I know he's not.

The problem is the worst players here can't be moved for one reason or another

Lehner
Bogosian
Okposo

All are bigger problems than ROR, Lehner will likely go unqualified and the other two can't be moved imo.

The disconnect here is that I happen to believe ROR is part of that lack of talent.

PP production riding Jack's Richard
Average to below average 5v5 production (you want to be a core guy/7.5 mil a year, gotta produce at the toughest game state)
faceoffs
good turnover rate
might make a nice defensive play every now and then


That's the return on our 2nd biggest investment in $. I don't know how that isn't a problem.
- Sabresfan-365

You’re saying the same stuff u always have

But the convo I’m talking about is SPECIFICALLY how lack of leadership (apparently all of which is blamed on ROR and no one else)
is the problem

The stuff u just said above is a different convo

I quoted your quote,
Bc u responded to another quote that was dismissive of the point i was trying to make

Which led me to believe that u think this supposed lack of leadership is the problem here
- jdfitz77

I question why they chose not to name a captain, but beyond that no not really. Leadership is a problem when your team should be making the finals/final four but is constantly crumbling in the first round

When you are 31st, you suck in the purest form.

You’re saying the same stuff u always have

But the convo I’m talking about is SPECIFICALLY how lack of leadership (apparently all of which is blamed on ROR and no one else)
is the problem

The stuff u just said above is a different convo
- jdfitz77

Yeah, if you go back, I didn't quote you. you didn't have to respond to what i posted. You chose to.

O’Reilly was 6th on the “worst team assembled” in even strength goals.

Shouldn’t he be, at worst 2nd?
- sbroads24

Is even strength goals your only measure for determining if a player is good or not?

Seems like you’re leaving out all the things that actually lead to scoring goals

Im making it sound like ROR is the worst asset on the Sabres but I know he's not.

The problem is the worst players here can't be moved for one reason or another

Lehner
Bogosian
Okposo

All are bigger problems than ROR, Lehner will likely go unqualified and the other two can't be moved imo.
- Sabresfan-365

The problem is that people can’t get past basic point totals, yet like to claim other people cherry pick. It’s infinitely infuriating

The problem is that people can’t get past basic point totals, yet like to claim other people cherry pick. It’s infinitely infuriating
- sbroads24

might just follow jcrag's lead and retire.

Yeah, if you go back, I didn't quote you. you didn't have to respond to what i posted. You chose to.
- Sabresfan-365

I explained why

Is even strength goals your only measure for determining if a player is good or not?

Seems like you’re leaving out all the things that actually lead to scoring goals
- jdfitz77

Like shots? He generated few of those too. 9th among forwards on the worst team in the league

Edit - Shots per hour

Like shots? He generated few of those too. 9th among forwards on the worst team in the league

Edit - Shots per hour
- sbroads24

oh no you used a p/60 stat we're all gunna die!!

The disconnect here is that I happen to believe ROR is part of that lack of talent.

PP production riding Jack's Richard
Average to below average 5v5 production (you want to be a core guy/7.5 mil a year, gotta produce at the toughest game state)
faceoffs
good turnover rate
might make a nice defensive play every now and then


That's the return on our 2nd biggest investment in $. I don't know how that isn't a problem.
- Sabresfan-365

O’Reilly had 15 pp goals
Jack had 3

Your bias is unreal

I question why they chose not to name a captain, but beyond that no not really. Leadership is a problem when your team should be making the finals/final four but is constantly crumbling in the first round

When you are 31st, you suck in the purest form.
- Sabresfan-365

Well the obvious answer is that they want Jack to be, but didn’t think he was ready

Of course, i don’t KNOW this
Just seems reasonable that it was the thinking

O’Reilly had 15 pp goals
Jack had 3

Your bias is unreal
- jdfitz77

This must mean O’Reilly is a better goal scorer and that PP goals and production isn’t random and unpredictable.

Like shots? He generated few of those too. 9th among forwards on the worst team in the league

Edit - Shots per hour
- sbroads24

Maybe if u listed all that stats that mattered,
And all the ones that don’t...

Then i could see understand where you’re coming from better

O’Reilly had 15 pp goals
Jack had 3

Your bias is unreal
- jdfitz77

And how many of those goals were assisted by Eichel? My bias is unreal. yeah

This must mean O’Reilly is a better goal scorer and that PP goals and production isn’t random and unpredictable.
- sbroads24

Or it just means he’s good on the PP

I dont think his question was intended that way

Ill probably go to game 3 or 4 vs Bruins
- Sabresfan-365

I don't think it was either, but it's just like asking where we're going on vacation, assuming we are.

Or it just means he’s good on the PP
- jdfitz77

Sure.

Weird that on the #1 PP unit last year he had only 8, and Eichel had 10

Maybe it’s because teams focus on taking Eichel’s shot away which opened up room on the other side for Okposo and O’Reilly. That’s my theory

I don't think it was either, but it's just like asking where we're going on vacation, assuming we are.
- Wetbandit1

think it's more like he was asking if we were not where we were