Losing continuously year after year will take a toll on players plus new coach and GM and system yet again, will take a toll on players. Winning changes a lot.
- SABRES 89

I'd agree, I just REALLY hope ROR is the guy to LEAD them out of it. I can't imagine the toll it takes on you, but making what he does you can't DO that.

I would put Mittelstadt as center #3 and Evan Rodriguez as the quality utility forward
- mattmoulson

This is what you’re not getting. Neither of those guys are ready to be impact players on a playoff team. On the 16 playoff teams they could be on the team, but in supporting roles.
Give them a couple of hundred NHL games before you start heaping expectations on them. If they win those positions come fall I assure you it’s by default.

I haven’t heard these comments from today

But there’s a group on here that have been going at ROR since last season
This didn’t start today

I’ll take a listen & get back to ya
- jdfitz77

It wasn't pretty. I am NOT in the camp of put the C on Eichel, but man he sounded WAY different. Of course you don't pick based on press conferences, you want to see play on the ice.

I would still love to find out who the heck has been quitting, everyone references but no one talks about it. Each time we bring up a player, they get defended the whole way, unless it's a bottom six guy.

I haven’t heard these comments from today

But there’s a group on here that have been going at ROR since last season
This didn’t start today

I’ll take a listen & get back to ya
- jdfitz77

They have been going at him since we got him

Not entirely. His camp made it very clear the only reason his production was only that level was because he was unfairly buried down the depth chart, if that changed he'd be better.

And you are absolutely right, he is playing just like he did for the Avs, and that is a problem.
- gcomella34

U mean an agent talked up his client?
What a shocker!!!

Doesn’t mean his actual skill set would change
If ppl thought that O’Reilly was gonna turn into an 80 point player...
idk what to say other than that was an unrealistic expectation

They have been going at him since we got him
- SABRES 89

Not me dude, I'm recent on this one. I think I've given him the benefit of the doubt enough, my opinion may have changed on him.

But...my opinion is worth....well nothing really.

How the (frank) is that on me? did I trade for him and give him that contract?


Neither did new management btw so wouldn't surprise me if they looked at the deal and said "blekh"
- Sabresfan-365

It’s on you if you had unrealistic expectations based on what the players skill set actually was, and still is

U mean an agent talked up his client?
What a shocker!!!

Doesn’t mean his actual skill set would change
If ppl thought that O’Reilly was gonna turn into an 80 point player...
idk what to say other than that was an unrealistic expectation
- jdfitz77

No ROR orchestrated his way off Colorado. That's not simply "talking up", that was a calculated effort on his part. When you pull the moves he did in contract negotiations you need to step up, he hasn't.

It’s on you if you had unrealistic expectations based on what the players skill set actually was, and still is
- jdfitz77

uh, no. it's on management to trade for players and assign them to roles they are capable of handling.

But hey, if you don't consider high end players on ELC's as "bargains", even though thats basically the foundation of every contending teams first/best cup window, this conversation is pointless.

Have a great day

Not me dude, I'm recent on this one. I think I've given him the benefit of the doubt enough, my opinion may have changed on him.

But...my opinion is worth....well nothing really.
- gcomella34

He's not the problem nor is he the solution, they seriously lack talent on this team. Now it's up to Botterill to see what he can do fix the issues. Winning will change a lot of attitudes and this team.

He's not the problem nor is he the solution, they seriously lack talent on this team. Now it's up to Botterill to see what he can do fix the issues. Winning will change a lot of attitudes and this team.
- SABRES 89

Agreed on all fronts.

My opinion is that based on that contract and the way he came here, he should be the solution.

That's my entire point.

Really I think that's most people's opinion who bag on him, I don't mind his production, I just want him to be part of the solution.

why does it have to be either or?

Why does the ROR trade have to be for a strome type return? I obviously wouldn't want him gone if that's all that was being offered.

A mid 1st, good prospect and decent roster player is not the same as moving eberle for strome.

or they could flip him for a d-man

or they could move him for a younger C and other futures.


Why is it always keep him or move him for nothing? this isn't pending ufa kane, ROR's false reputation will actually help us if we chose to move him.
- Sabresfan-365

Trading O’Reilly for a “core” player makes sense
Trading him for guys likely to be 3rd liners does not
We already have TONS of those guys

Mid-late 1sts are still toss ups
Some work out, some don’t

I guess it depends how “good” the prospect is
If it’s a “b” tier guy, then again... meh
We’ve got Baptiste, Bailey, E Rod, & about 8 or so other guys like that ready/coming


I’ve asked u for examples of a trade u would like instead of just being vague...
but u refuse to answer for some reason

No ROR orchestrated his way off Colorado. That's not simply "talking up", that was a calculated effort on his part. When you pull the moves he did in contract negotiations you need to step up, he hasn't.
- gcomella34

Opinions vary. That management seemed to have a real issue with handling players.

O'Reilly's real crime is that he is overpaid on a very bad team. He is a dream #3 center but he isn't getting paid to be that.

Trading O’Reilly for a “core” player makes sense
Trading him for guys likely to be 3rd liners does not
We already have TONS of those guys

Mid-late 1sts are still toss ups
Some work out, some don’t

I guess it depends how “good” the prospect is
If it’s a “b” tier guy, then again... meh
We’ve got Baptiste, Bailey, E Rod, & about 8 or so other guys like that ready/coming


I’ve asked u for examples of a trade u would like instead of just being vague...
but u refuse to answer for some reason
- jdfitz77

I just gave you several scenarios, how am i going to give specifics? got a cheat on all 30 teams available players?

I refuse to answer because how would I know what's available, what o'reilly's market is, what other teams situations are both financial and direction?

Opinions vary. That management seemed to have a real issue with handling players.

O'Reilly's real crime is that he is overpaid on a very bad team. He is a dream #3 center but he isn't getting paid to be that.
- Slump Buster

It was two different management teams at Colorado. His contract demands were outlandish to people not named Tim Murray.

The last part I agree with wholeheartedly.

Trading O’Reilly for a “core” player makes sense
Trading him for guys likely to be 3rd liners does not
We already have TONS of those guys

Mid-late 1sts are still toss ups
Some work out, some don’t

I guess it depends how “good” the prospect is
If it’s a “b” tier guy, then again... meh
We’ve got Baptiste, Bailey, E Rod, & about 8 or so other guys like that ready/coming


I’ve asked u for examples of a trade u would like instead of just being vague...
but u refuse to answer for some reason
- jdfitz77

That's the only way I support a trade for him, you don't ditch him for a bunch of third liners and you still have 60 points to make up for, that's nothing to shake a stick at.

uh, no. it's on management to trade for players and assign them to roles they are capable of handling.

But hey, if you don't consider high end players on ELC's as "bargains", even though thats basically the foundation of every contending teams first/best cup window, this conversation is pointless.

Have a great day
- Sabresfan-365

It’s certainly pointless to consider an ELC a bargain when talking about having to “pay players the Buff-a-tax” to keep them here

An ELC is irrelevant in that context

If Mittelstadt’s contract is a bargain when he’s RORs age...
then what you’re saying makes sense

However,
we are gonna have to overpay him too

And we are likely gonna have to overpay Sam at some point to keep him here

And Guhle

And so on, and so on...

It’s certainly pointless to consider an ELC a bargain when talking about having to “pay players the Buff-a-tax” to keep them here

An ELC is irrelevant in that context

If Mittelstadt’s contract is a bargain when he’s RORs age...
then what you’re saying makes sense

However,
we are gonna have to overpay him too

And we are likely gonna have to overpay Sam at some point to keep him here

And Guhle

And so on, and so on...
- jdfitz77

Seriously? We have to beg people to stay? Since when?

He's not the problem nor is he the solution, they seriously lack talent on this team. Now it's up to Botterill to see what he can do fix the issues. Winning will change a lot of attitudes and this team.
- SABRES 89

And O’Reilly plays with guys like Wilson & Pouliot on his line & ppl expect him to produce like he’s got Wheeler & Kyle Connor playing with him

It’s certainly pointless to consider an ELC a bargain when talking about having to “pay players the Buff-a-tax” to keep them here

An ELC is irrelevant in that context

If Mittelstadt’s contract is a bargain when he’s RORs age...
then what you’re saying makes sense

However,
we are gonna have to overpay him too

And we are likely gonna have to overpay Sam at some point to keep him here

And Guhle

And so on, and so on...
- jdfitz77

This is where GM's need to identify those they can win without and trade them and sign the ones they need.

We're not at that point yet. And....like 89 says, they start winning, contract demands start to lessen, provided you sign them long term before they go to FA.

Seriously? We have to beg people to stay? Since when?
- Slump Buster

yeah seriously that's some next inferiority complex. these guys have zero leverage as RFA's with offer sheets being taboo

And O’Reilly plays with guys like Wilson & Pouliot on his line & ppl expect him to produce like he’s got Wheeler & Kyle Connor playing with him
- jdfitz77

Like I said, lack of talent.

I just gave you several scenarios, how am i going to give specifics? got a cheat on all 30 teams available players?

I refuse to answer because how would I know what's available, what o'reilly's market is, what other teams situations are both financial and direction?
- Sabresfan-365

Why can’t u just throw something out there?
Of course none of us “know”

For example:
St.Louis
I’d take Vince Dunn(D) & Robert Thomas(C), or someone like Kyrou...

But if we were getting 2nd tier guys like Tage Thompson or Klim Kostin,
I’d be p!ssed

Idk if any of that is possible...
but i can still give examples of a trade I’d like vs one that i wouldn’t

Like I said, lack of talent.
- SABRES 89

Sure, but at the same time his 5 on 5 numbers have to improve. His lack of speed is magnified on this incredibly slow team.

That's the only way I support a trade for him, you don't ditch him for a bunch of third liners and you still have 60 points to make up for, that's nothing to shake a stick at.
- gcomella34

That’s totally reasonable