So I go ref Nationals and the Sabres clinch last place, ROR hates hockey, the Humboldt team tragedy which hit me really hard and Mittelstadt looks the part.

Did I miss anything?
- Stripes77

Everyone is good, everyone is bad, and no one wants to be here, but some people want to be here, and it's dumb that you think playing for this team is hard.

So I go ref Nationals and the Sabres clinch last place, ROR hates hockey, the Humboldt team tragedy which hit me really hard and Mittelstadt looks the part.

Did I miss anything?
- Stripes77

Nylander isn't a complete bust.

(Opinions still vary, but the naysayers are wrong)

culture.

top paid players must produce offense
bottom paid players must perform the roles that they are slotted into

All players must forcheck
All players must backcheck

All players must give their all every night
All players must buy into their coach's system

All players must want to be there

In certain respects, the highest paid players deserve a majority of the blame. But a bottom six takes more skills and smarts to put together. They are used primarily in defensive situations, and are almost if not as important as your top 6.

Let's not pretend bottom six don't deserve blame and top six deserve all blame. It's a team sport, and you need every player on that bench firing on all cylinders in the same (frank)ing direction. This team didn't. And that's culture. Team culture and individual culture.
- TheSabresTaco

Who's pretending this?

The "bottom 6" was an issue, but towards the end of the year, we have Rodirgues, Baptiste, Bailey (at times) inserted there, and it's not like we started rattling off wins.

Your forwards that play 15-20% of the minutes aren't pushing the needle either way

Who's pretending this?

The "bottom 6" was an issue, but towards the end of the year, we have Rodirgues, Baptiste, Bailey (at times) inserted there, and it's not like we started rattling off wins.

Your forwards that play 15-20% of the minutes are pushing the needle either way
- sbroads24

I think the injection of youth and speed all over the lineup will make everyone better. Too often the ice is tilted 5v5 and we have a tough time even getting out of our zone. The three guys you mention are key to changing this next year. Moving one of 23 or 90 would probably also help as they struggle when they are out there together.

Who's pretending this?

The "bottom 6" was an issue, but towards the end of the year, we have Rodirgues, Baptiste, Bailey (at times) inserted there, and it's not like we started rattling off wins.

Your forwards that play 15-20% of the minutes are pushing the needle either way
- sbroads24

I'm of the mind that the defense needs more work than anything. Our statistics are frighteningly bad.

Still, our bottom 6 with Jordan Nolan and Johan Larsson, isn't giving anyone nightmares. I just think back to the last Pitt cup run and how their 3rd and 4th lines pushed play, tired the other teams defense with speed and were either generating good scoring chances or O-zone draws for the top6.

Our team does not do any of those things.

Is it outrageous to think with a decent D-Core and the ability to roll 4 lines, we wouldn't be considerably better?

Who's pretending this?

The "bottom 6" was an issue, but towards the end of the year, we have Rodirgues, Baptiste, Bailey (at times) inserted there, and it's not like we started rattling off wins.

Your forwards that play 15-20% of the minutes aren't pushing the needle either way
- sbroads24

If they push the needle, and produce (a big key), the 15-20% of the time they play, how is that not a huge lift to a team that was sorely lacking in that kind of support?

I'm of the mind that the defense needs more work than anything. Our statistics are frighteningly bad.

Still, our bottom 6 with Jordan Nolan and Johan Larsson, isn't giving anyone nightmares. I just think back to the last Pitt cup run and how their 3rd and 4th lines pushed play, tired the other teams defense with speed and were either generating good scoring chances or O-zone draws for the top6.

Our team does not do any of those things.

Is it outrageous to think with a decent D-Core and the ability to roll 4 lines, we wouldn't be considerably better?
- RhinoFan

Depends on what is considered considerably.

We chose to scortch-earth, tank, tear down rebuild mode to build a cup contending team, not just to become respectable.

IMO, if you look at the contending teams, we are WAY short of what there top end prodcution is.

Even a team like Minny, who's not a powerhouse

6 players with 45 plus points. Sabres had 3.

It's our top end forwards/defense lacking >> bottom end lacking

Edmonton Oilers -

3 guys with 45 + points.


We basically have the same roster, except our top 2 forwards arent nearly as good as theirs

I think the injection of youth and speed all over the lineup will make everyone better. Too often the ice is tilted 5v5 and we have a tough time even getting out of our zone. The three guys you mention are key to changing this next year. Moving one of 23 or 90 would probably also help as they struggle when they are out there together.
- Slump Buster

I think it's going to help. But it's like going from the bottom of a mountain, to a quarter of the way up.

This team needs two more studs, at the very least

I think it's going to help. But it's like going from the bottom of a mountain, to a quarter of the way up.

This team needs two more studs, at the very least
- sbroads24

We all know the bolded is true, and isn't the idea that a top 3 pick would be one stud, and a potential other stud will be on the 3rd line next year?

Depends on what is considered considerably.

We chose to scortch-earth, tank, tear down rebuild mode to build a cup contending team, not just to become respectable.

IMO, if you look at the contending teams, we are WAY short of what there top end prodcution is.

Even a team like Minny, who's not a powerhouse

6 players with 45 plus points. Sabres had 3.

It's our top end forwards/defense lacking >> bottom end lacking
- sbroads24

Considerably better at this point is respectability unfortunately.

Still, I just wonder if our complete lack of defense plays into some of those numbers. Okposo gets another point we are at 4 players over 45, with Risto just behind. I get the point though.

Would one top pairing defender and a top6 wing do it, you think? Just curious.

We all know the bolded is true, and isn't the idea that a top 3 pick would be one stud, and a potential other stud will be on the 3rd line next year?
- kingcong39

I think so as well and that's why things aren't as dire as people make them out to be. Where we were 5 years ago (pre-tank) was far, far worse.

I think so as well and that's why things aren't as dire as people make them out to be. Where we were 5 years ago (pre-tank) was far, far worse.
- Slump Buster

Technically we finished lower this year than 5 years ago

Considerably better at this point is respectability unfortunately.

Still, I just wonder if our complete lack of defense plays into some of those numbers. Okposo gets another point we are at 4 players over 45, with Risto just behind. I get the point though.

Would one top pairing defender and a top6 wing do it, you think? Just curious.
- RhinoFan

The D scoring is an enormous problem. Edmonton was 27th with 127 points from defensemen.

We had 106.

Risto had 40% of those points

Technically we finished lower this year than 5 years ago
- washedup20

Sure, but we were much worse off then as the tear-down was still ahead of us. Also, Darcy was still our coach and we had an awful coach.

Sure, but we were much worse off then as the tear-down was still ahead of us. Also, Darcy was still our coach and we had an awful coach.
- Slump Buster

There was no hope on that roster, so expectations were managed. I understand you’re point.

The D scoring is an enormous problem. Edmonton was 27th with 127 points from defensemen.

We had 106.

Risto had 40% of those points
- jcragcrumple

You know I have to ask, how much of that was pp points? I get that it matters, but we had the top pp in the league once and were still 6th worst in the nhl. Need to add players who can produce at both even strength and on the man advantage, not just when zone entry is gifted to them. Hence the phrase “driving the play”

There was no hope on that roster, so expectations were managed. I understand you’re point.
- washedup20

"Fail for Nail"

(cringing)

The D scoring is an enormous problem. Edmonton was 27th with 127 points from defensemen.

We had 106.

Risto had 40% of those points
- jcragcrumple

D get more assists than goals, so that doubles the loss as well...the assist for the defender as well as the goal for the forward.

I liked the line, "If a player can't put up 25pts get rid of them". That would be pretty harsh for bottom pairing defenders or the 4th line, but guys like Nolan, Falk, Larsson, Moulson, Pouliot and Josefson would all have a difficult time getting to those thresholds no matter what line they were used on.

If we could have forwards that were "Wilson or better" and defenders who were Scandella or better, IMO, our scoring would go up and therefore the result would be better.

Quesiton is...how much better?

You know I have to ask, how much of that was pp points? I get that it matters, but we had the top pp in the league once and were still 6th worst in the nhl. Need to add players who can produce at both even strength and on the man advantage, not just when zone entry is gifted to them. Hence the phrase “driving the play”
- Sabresfan-365

It was said before, but Housley et al came in with an idea of what they wanted the PP to look like. It didn't work. They resorted back to the old model and things improved immensely.

In the back quarter of this season, the PP picked up as did the wins. I'd wager if we just kept the PP the same throughout the year, we'd have quite a few extra points being passed around that top6/top4.

It was said before, but Housley et al came in with an idea of what they wanted the PP to look like. It didn't work. They resorted back to the old model and things improved immensely.

In the back quarter of this season, the PP picked up as did the wins. I'd wager if we just kept the PP the same throughout the year, we'd have quite a few extra points being passed around that top6/top4.
- RhinoFan

special teams don't matter. except sometimes.

You know I have to ask, how much of that was pp points? I get that it matters, but we had the top pp in the league once and were still 6th worst in the nhl. Need to add players who can produce at both even strength and on the man advantage, not just when zone entry is gifted to them. Hence the phrase “driving the play”
- Sabresfan-365

No idea on that first part, but we have to be bottom five in goals from defensemen, if not the worst. There's just not a lot of creativity back there. Besides risto, did anyone have 5? Maybe Scandella, and then nothing

Edit:

6
5
3
3
1
1

I count 19

No idea on that first part, but we have to be bottom five in goals from defensemen, if not the worst. There's just not a lot of creativity back there. Besides risto, did anyone have 5? Maybe Scandella, and then nothing
- jcragcrumple

This is chicken and egg though.

Over the past 3 years prior to this, Scandella averaged 7.38 goals per 82 games

This year he scored 5, playing the most minutes of his career.

NB had 4 goals and 28 points in 74 games last year in MTL.

This year, 1 goal and 9 points in 59 games


The forwards effect D scoring and vice-versa. NONE of it is close to being on par

special teams don't matter. except sometimes.
- TheSabresTaco

Big if true

No idea on that first part, but we have to be bottom five in goals from defensemen, if not the worst. There's just not a lot of creativity back there. Besides risto, did anyone have 5? Maybe Scandella, and then nothing
- jcragcrumple

Our defense and its ability to create offense was no doubt a problem. The best teams have four defensemen with significant offensive production.

Nashville had 3 defensemen score more than 0.7 ppg and four above 0.4
Tampa had 3 defensemen above 0.4
Vegas had 5 above 0.4
Washington, SJ and Toronto had 3
Boston had 2

Buffalo had Risto. If your dmen aren't going to score, they need to be shutdown and they need to move the play. Beaulieu, Gorges, McCabe, Falk don't really do that, and Bogo does sometimes, if he's ever on the ice to begin with.