That's the point , drafting that high you want someone closer to ready
- VANTEL

In a perfect world yes, if not you still take the BPA on your list.

In a perfect world yes, if not you still take the BPA on your list.
- LeftCoaster

Always 👍👍
Subjective cuz we never know that list til the pick is in.

In a perfect world yes, if not you still take the BPA on your list.
- LeftCoaster

Problem is, BPA is subjective, what we consider BPA might not be what a GM considers BPA or else we wouldn't have off the board picks like Columbus picking PLD at 3 instead of Puljujaarvi (which turns out to be the correct call after all)

And yes, I know it's a bad comparison since that draft is so recent, but still that surprised everyone when CBJ did that.

Problem is, BPA is subjective, what we consider BPA might not be what a GM considers BPA or else we wouldn't have off the board picks like Columbus picking PLD at 3 instead of Puljujaarvi (which turns out to be the correct call after all)

And yes, I know it's a bad comparison since that draft is so recent, but still that surprised everyone when CBJ did that.
- DariusKnight

You're right, we discussed this a few pages back, that's why I said "take the BPA on your list". And hope your GM gets it right with his list.

I still maintain you don't pick a player because he'll be ready sooner, you pick the most talented kid available to you.

You're right, we discussed this a few pages back, that's why I said "take the BPA on your list". And hope your GM gets it right with his list.

I still maintain you don't pick a player because he'll be ready sooner, you pick the most talented kid available to you.
- LeftCoaster

Vantel is saying the complete opposite. NHL ready sooner over potential.

Vantel is saying the complete opposite. NHL ready sooner over potential.
- manvanfan

I don’t care how good a prospect is next season I care how good they are in 3 years when we are hopefully competitive

You're right, we discussed this a few pages back, that's why I said "take the BPA on your list". And hope your GM gets it right with his list.

I still maintain you don't pick a player because he'll be ready sooner, you pick the most talented kid available to you.
- LeftCoaster

Depends though where you are in your cycle, if you're contending, then you want the quicker turnaround to help with staying competitive than the most talented because the most talented might take too long to help you win. Definitely if you're rebuilding and aren't expecting to make the playoffs and/or contend you can choose the more talented but maybe takes longer to make it to the show.

I do agree that you hope your GM gets it right, although to be fair, drafting is more of an art than a science. When you're dealing with 18 year old players and trying to project them in the NHL where even the safest pick might bust due to injury, management/coaching changeovers, lack of chemistry with teammates or even plain dumb luck. As Daigle, Stefan and more recently Yakupov have shown, even being the consensus 1OA pick doesn't always guarantee success and HHOF careers.

Now granted, scouting is much much better these days, and as a general rule of thumb those examples are exceptions it still happens. It's a lot like poker, sometimes when you get your money in with the best of it, you still lose. Life (and drafting), like poker, has a lot of variance to it.

Jim Halpert
‏

@Larkinsomnia
3h3 hours ago
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Stanley cup finals appearances since 1968

Vegas: 1
Toronto: 0


- VANTEL

Slide that over to the leaves thread

Vantel is saying the complete opposite. NHL ready sooner over potential.
- manvanfan

Did I say that? I said Sergachev and Chychrun were more ready but I also see them both as better players in 5 years. I am glad you see OJ as a really good Dman in the future but I don't share your vision. I see him as just okay.

Did I say that? I said Sergachev and Chychrun were more ready but I also see them both as better players in 5 years. I am glad you see OJ as a really good Dman in the future but I don't share your vision. I see him as just okay.
- VANTEL

Don’t agree on Chychrun. Think he is trash. Agree on Serg but that could change (although unlikely)

Don’t agree on Chychrun. Think he is trash. Agree on Serg but that could change (although unlikely)
- CanuckDon

I am not really pumping Chych tires I never had interest in him, I just threw his name in . It was always Sergachev or Tkachuk for me

Don’t agree on Chychrun. Think he is trash. Agree on Serg but that could change (although unlikely)
- CanuckDon

Serg could go back to Russia, there is that risk.

Did I say that? I said Sergachev and Chychrun were more ready but I also see them both as better players in 5 years. I am glad you see OJ as a really good Dman in the future but I don't share your vision. I see him as just okay.
- VANTEL

You said "i dont agree drafting for potential".

You said "i dont agree drafting for potential".
- manvanfan

I don't agree solely on drafting for potential. Example this year Dobson could be a very decent Dman in a few years but if Wahlstrom is there ,who is more NHL ready, I am taking him every time.

Potential is not a guarantee I take the guaranteed almost every time unless it is a very high potential . Dobson and OJ are not very high potential IMO

I don’t care how good a prospect is next season I care how good they are in 3 years when we are hopefully competitive
- CanuckDon

In Vantels perfect world, NHL ready and the most potential line up perfectly with each prospect. A little bit more then the next player and so on. 😁

In Vantels perfect world, NHL ready and the most potential line up perfectly with each prospect. A little bit more then the next player and so on. 😁
- manvanfan

In Manvans world he likes to think he is an expert on who the best pick is. He likes to draft with fancy stats and take guys like OJ for their potential over NHL ready players that are all ready playing and producing

In Manvans world he likes to think he is an expert on who the best pick is. He likes to draft with fancy stats and take guys like OJ for their potential over NHL ready players that are all ready playing and producing
- VANTEL

Ya who do I like this year then?

In Manvans world he likes to think he is an expert on who the best pick is. He likes to draft with fancy stats and take guys like OJ for their potential over NHL ready players that are all ready playing and producing
- VANTEL

Their all good players, who can play the better team game and character is the key, look at vegas.

Their all good players, who can play the better team game and character is the key, look at vegas.
- Bettmanhatesus

Hey, im the expert here.

Their all good players. Character is key. They all have different attributes to help their team win. Just look at VGK and their team game.

Ya who do I like this year then?
- manvanfan

I know you wanted OJ as Canucks pick that year so I will ask you , what part of his game has impressed you the most so far?

His transition game
His hard on the puck
His shot
His QB the PP
His passing
His D zone coverage

Which one of these has led you to believe he is an above average pick?

I know you wanted OJ as Canucks pick that year so I will ask you , what part of his game has impressed you the most so far?

His transition game
His hard on the puck
His shot
His QB the PP
His passing
His D zone coverage

Which one of these has led you to believe he is an above average pick?
- VANTEL

I actually wanted PLD. Didnt think he would get to Van. I figured Van would pick a D then. I did/do think that OJ could be the best overall D of that draft.

You didnt answer my question about who I like this year?

Excuses. Sergachev also played a few games in Montreal . We picked the worse of the three . Why can't you just accept it? Two of them are producing on NHL teams ours may or may not be ready next year.
- VANTEL

Im not high on chychrun

He has had 2 seperate invasive knee surgeries in less than a year on the same knee.

Im not high on chychrun

He has had 2 seperate invasive knee surgeries in less than a year on the same knee.
- classic321

I'm also not high on Chychrun or Sergachev, I think Sergachev has so much help that he looks better than what he is. I think what he showed in Montreal is more indicative of his actual talent/skill/production. I also think OJ ends up playing longer and while might not put up the stats that the other two do, is the better player overall. It's hard to judge defensemen when they all play different styles and have more responsibilities than forwards do. Is it fair to judge a shutdown D that barely scratches the score sheet vs a PMD that puts points on the board vs their draft position?

I'd much rather judge D-men on whether or not they help their team win. If you're breaking D scoring records but are allowing more goals than you produce and your team loses makes me rate that player down more than a D that doesn't score but prevents goals and the team is winning. Again, there's no real apples to apples comparison and you're left with subjective criteria that probably few agree with you on.

I'm also not high on Chychrun or Sergachev, I think Sergachev has so much help that he looks better than what he is. I think what he showed in Montreal is more indicative of his actual talent/skill/production. I also think OJ ends up playing longer and while might not put up the stats that the other two do, is the better player overall. It's hard to judge defensemen when they all play different styles and have more responsibilities than forwards do. Is it fair to judge a shutdown D that barely scratches the score sheet vs a PMD that puts points on the board vs their draft position?

I'd much rather judge D-men on whether or not they help their team win. If you're breaking D scoring records but are allowing more goals than you produce and your team loses makes me rate that player down more than a D that doesn't score but prevents goals and the team is winning. Again, there's no real apples to apples comparison and you're left with subjective criteria that probably few agree with you on.
- DariusKnight

👍👌👏

Not knowing the entire story but Nolan Vesey brother of Jimmy doing the same and not signing with the team that drafted him. Not sure if Toronto wanted to sign him or not.

Jerks 😂