He wants 4m he is looking for his payday and I don’t want to be the team that’s stuck with a David Clarkson , Beleskey
- gerbe75pts

You never told us you were an agent. Go on.

You should know by now that that's not the only reason players choose a location. Yes, they need to believe in the vision of a team, long term. I believe the Sabres have that vision with Botts/Housley now. And I think that could be attractive, along with the chance to play with Eichel and Dahlin.
- TheSabresTaco

But it is more often than not the primary reason. The problem with pitching that vision is at this point it's mostly big promises. Stacked up against NYI or Minnesota sure looks good, but we don't know who's in the race and there are plenty of teams with solid mgmt/coach duos and visions for the future that are attractive options.

Would you retain 2 mil off bogosian's deal for Hagelin?

But it is more often than not the primary reason. The problem with pitching that vision is at this point it's mostly big promises. Stacked up against NYI or Minnesota sure looks good, but we don't know who's in the race and there are plenty of teams with solid mgmt/coach duos and visions for the future that are attractive options.
- Sabresfan-365

So all in all, no one knows anything and we can all hope for the best. Fair?

give me your set of moves to make the team better that doesn't include signing carlson/tavares or trading risto/reinhart/ror or grubauer for basically nothing.


Funny thing is, I wasn't even referencing you in that post. You're not the only staunch ROR defender here.
- Sabresfan-365

You’re assuming (i think) that we can’t get better just with all the incoming young talent

Of course it might not be from day1...
but is Risto gonna be more effective with Dahlin here?
Most would say yes

Is the defense in general gonna be better with Dahlin + Guhle + Nelson?
Most would say yes

Is our defense gonna be MUCH better at getting the puck out of our end and pushing the puck up the ice (thus helping the forwards/offense & leading to more scoring)?
Most would say yes

Does our depth scoring look better with bringing up the kids instead of playing guys like Nolan, Crissuolo, Griffith, etc?
Most would say yes

Is a goaltender like Grubauer very acquirable, for nothing more than draft picks, and can he make a pretty big difference over the AWFUL goaltending we had last year?
Most would say yes

You act like we need to do something drastic to make improvements,
when we are already on the path in MANY ways- as I’ve pointed out above


WHAT DID WINNIPEG DO TO GET BETTER?
Just got good goalie play

And now look at all the ways we are improving, without even making drastic moves

I’m not saying we are Cup contenders next year...
but we are trending up
Finally

So all in all, no one knows anything and we can all hope for the best. Fair?
- TheSabresTaco

Sure, although we know the Kings are in on him. Pretty sure they'd win that

Would you retain 2 mil off bogosian's deal for Hagelin?
- Sabresfan-365

What's the rest of the deal? Can we dump Girgensons too? I mean, ahem, would we have to give up Girgensons?

Go find one person who loves Grabner.
- TheSabresTaco

Teams that want speed and can score so we make the list

Would you retain 2 mil off bogosian's deal for Hagelin?
- Sabresfan-365

Cap space this year is irrelevant. So we'd gain +1M on the cap with that deal. For a third line center (edit:winger). Then, we'd have to look into signing him next year, hopefully for less than 4. So let's say it's 3. That's 5M on the cap for a third liner. Or, 5M on the cap for a >60 game 4-6 dman. It's a wash for me, Bob.

You never told us you were an agent. Go on.
- TheSabresTaco

So you want to give him his payday ? Cool

You’re assuming (i think) that we can’t get better just with all the incompetence by young talent

Of course it might not be from day1...
but is Risto gonna be more effective with Dahlin here?
Most would say yes

Is the defense in general gonna be better with Dahlin + Guhle + Nelson?
Most would say yes

Is our defense gonna be MUCH better at getting the puck out of our end and pushing the puck up the ice (thus helping the forwards/offense & leading to more scoring)?
Most would say yes

Does our depth scoring look better with bringing up the kids instead of playing guys like Nolan, Crissuolo, Griffith, etc?
Most would say yes

Is a goaltender like Grubauer very acquirable, for nothing more than draft picks, and can he make a pretty big difference over the AWFUL goaltending we had last year?
Most would say yes

You act like we need to do something drastic to make improvements,
when we are already on the path in MANY ways- as I’ve pointed out above


WHAT DID WINNIPEG DO TO GET BETTER?
Just got good goalie play

And now look at all the ways we are improving, without even making drastic moves

I’m not saying we are Cup contenders next year...
but we are trending up
Finally
- jdfitz77

youre citing incompetent young talent and then saying the young talent will make us better? Im lost, all i got from this is that grubauer will save us for the cost of some draft picks.

Teams that want speed and can score so we make the list
- gerbe75pts

They probably love speed like you do and they probably hate possessing the puck too.

Cap space this year is irrelevant. So we'd gain +1M on the cap with that deal. For a third line center. Then, we'd have to look into signing him next year, hopefully for less than 4. So let's say it's 3. That's 5M on the cap for a third liner. Or, 5M on the cap for a >60 game 4-6 dman. It's a wash for me, Bob.
- TheSabresTaco

If girgs is part of the deal, you're upgrading your 4C and ridding yourself of Bogo. I'd do that deal all day, errrday

So you want to give him his payday ? Cool
- gerbe75pts

You act like this guy is going to get a poopload of money. Everyone knows what he is. He's slow, but he can still score and play defensive minutes and move the puck. He's not worth 4 million dollars.

Cap space this year is irrelevant. So we'd gain +1M on the cap with that deal. For a third line center. Then, we'd have to look into signing him next year, hopefully for less than 4. So let's say it's 3. That's 5M on the cap for a third liner. Or, 5M on the cap for a >60 game 4-6 dman. It's a wash for me, Bob.
- TheSabresTaco

The selling point for me is if Bogo falls apart again next year you're definitely stuck with dead cap the following year when you want to compete. If Hagelin doesn't work out you can just move on.

The deal gives you a bit of flexibility if nothing else.

I just don't think we're in that position quite yet. As has been mentioned plenty times before, winning fixes a lot of that.

I think his best bet is to wait for the right player to become available (right as in right price). Maybe its someone who hasn't quite hit his potential yet, maybe a cap casualty.
- Sabresfan-365

Athanasiou from Detroit
Nino Niederritter from Minnesota

Two other guys I would look at.

Would you retain 2 mil off bogosian's deal for Hagelin?
- Sabresfan-365

Nope

But i believe there would be a number of teams who’d take Bogo if we retain salary
So many teams are always looking for a RH defenseman
And although it may seem crazy...
there will be teams who see him having upside if he can stay healthy

And as i said before,
taking Hagelin’s Cap hit is doing Pitt a favor
So we’d need a “+” from them as well for me to like any trade in which we acquire him

Athanasiou from Detroit
Nino Niederritter from Minnesota

Two other guys I would look at.
- Pegullaville

If niederreiter is available i'd make a play. Id be surprised if Detroit wound up moving athanasiou, just seems like someone a rebuilding team would keep around.

You’re assuming (i think) that we can’t get better just with all the incompetence by young talent

Of course it might not be from day1...
but is Risto gonna be more effective with Dahlin here?
Most would say yes

Is the defense in general gonna be better with Dahlin + Guhle + Nelson?
Most would say yes

Is our defense gonna be MUCH better at getting the puck out of our end and pushing the puck up the ice (thus helping the forwards/offense & leading to more scoring)?
Most would say yes

Does our depth scoring look better with bringing up the kids instead of playing guys like Nolan, Crissuolo, Griffith, etc?
Most would say yes

Is a goaltender like Grubauer very acquirable, for nothing more than draft picks, and can he make a pretty big difference over the AWFUL goaltending we had last year?
Most would say yes

You act like we need to do something drastic to make improvements,
when we are already on the path in MANY ways- as I’ve pointed out above


WHAT DID WINNIPEG DO TO GET BETTER?
Just got good goalie play

And now look at all the ways we are improving, without even making drastic moves

I’m not saying we are Cup contenders next year...
but we are trending up
Finally
- jdfitz77

Winnipeg has the best young sniper in the league and also a 90 point center

On top of that they finally got improved goaltending.

Winnipeg built through the draft and made some good trades

Drafting Dahlin is a huge start for the Sabres but they still don't have that sniper to play with their stud center.

The ROR "bashing" is getting overblown.

There are things that many posters like about his game and many things the same posters don't like.

Take for example me:

I like that he can play big minutes. I like that he is a consistent 60 point player. I do like that he takes every key faceoff.

I don't like his contract. I don't like certain qualities about his leadership or lack there of.

I like that he has a ton of value around the league.

I like that any deal that involves him should be an overpayment (or at least a good haul) and the Sabres should win out on the trade.

This isn't a post to bash ROR, this is a post that can look at the make up of the team currently, can look at the system the head coach wants to play, and can look at who on the roster would fetch the most in a return that may or may not be part of the long term plans of the GM.

Obviously Jack is in the long term plans.

By process of elimination ROR is the one that I would want to see dealt FOR THE RIGHT DEAL.

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand this.
- Stripes77

it would not shock me, if in 2 years ror's play drops off big time like mike richards or the funk dustin brown went through with the kings



IMO this is the biggest reason I would like to see him moved within the next 14 months

You act like this guy is going to get a poopload of money. Everyone knows what he is. He's slow, but he can still score and play defensive minutes and move the puck. He's not worth 4 million dollars.
- TheSabresTaco

I know he’s not worth that but that’s what he wants

http://www.oilogosphere.c...aroon-worth-a-big-payday/

it would not shock me, if in 2 years ror's play drops off big time like mike richards or the funk dustin brown went through with the kings



IMO this is the biggest reason I would like to see him moved within the next 14 months
- homiedclown

Underrated point, he's 27. As far as abilities go, we've probably seen his best

Nope

But i believe there would be a number of teams who’d take Bogo if we retain salary
So many teams are always looking for a RH defenseman
And although it may seem crazy...
there will be teams who see him having upside if he can stay healthy

And as i said before,
taking Hagelin’s Cap hit is doing Pitt a favor
So we’d need a “+” from them as well for me to like any trade in which we acquire him
- jdfitz77

We turned down a 6th rounder last year. I doubt anyone's offering much of anything for him now

The selling point for me is if Bogo falls apart again next year you're definitely stuck with dead cap the following year when you want to compete. If Hagelin doesn't work out you can just move on.

The deal gives you a bit of flexibility if nothing else.
- Sabresfan-365

So it's a Bogo dump, probably going with the premise that unless Hagelin wants 2M or less, he'll be released. So it's 6M (instead of 5.1) for year 1 and 2M (if released) for year 2, instead for 5.1M.

This kind of move really depends on the moves they make this year, because there's no one in for a huge payday after this season.

Underrated point, he's 27. As far as abilities go, we've probably seen his best
- Sabresfan-365

But everyone was ready to sign JT for 7 years when he'll be 28 to start the season