My view is if you can get him (Tavares) you can Move ROR for two young pieces to insert into this lineup.

According to a report the return would be similar to Jeff Carter. That would be freaking gold to Buffalo.

its a long shot no doubt. but that is my thought process on it.
- ImThatGuy

Do we really have to go through this again?

Carter got back Voracek, which is a downgrade

And then they got lucky Couturier fell to them...
and even then, he was just an average 3rd liner for the last SIX years

That trade didn’t look good for Philly till this past season

Do we wanna trade O’Reilly for :
-a roster player who’s a downgrade
-and a draftpick(s) that may or may not work out for us
-and if the pick(s) do work out, it’s most likely not for years

IF we move him,
we absolutely MUST make sure we get back a core piece
Even if it means we add to ROR

Getting “parts” and “what ifs” just doesn’t make sense

Okposo is fine short term. It’s the fact that he’s signed long term that’s the issue.

I really hope he returns to form, especially with all he’s been through. Seems like a nice guy too
- sbroads24

He’s “fine”
But all the big objections to ROR are the same or worse with him
-age, contract, injuries/breaking down, style of play, etc

Obviously he isn’t gonna get the same return as if we traded ROR
But Okposo’s contract should be one we focus on moving imo

Makes sense to me. I like his game with Eichel. If he has a 55-60 point season, we would probably be able to trade him
- jcragcrumple

I’d say 25g-35a-60pts should be possible if he plays with Jack all year
Maybe even more assists if Jack shoots more 5v5

Like u said,
Vanek is the OPPOSITE of what Botts wants

Unless you’re bringing in top line talent...
Tavares, JvR, etc...
Then let the kids battle it out for the open spots
At the very least they can bring speed & be coached to play the style Botts/Housley are looking for
If 1 or 2 of those guys can contribute,
then we are (at least) in better shape than the Scrubs we played last year
Can’t find out if we don’t let them play though
And i don’t mean 8min a night with Nolan & Josefson on line4
- jdfitz77

Jbotts wants a winger that can and has scored consistently.

Vanek is that guy.

Like Michael has mentioned before, each guy doesn't have to be fast to be a fast team.

Vanek will get you 20/25 goals and 55/60 points with our centers and high end talent.

Jbotts may want speed, but that's for the draft. Keep picking fast guys, then 1 can eventually replace vanek

Okposo is fine short term. It’s the fact that he’s signed long term that’s the issue.

I really hope he returns to form, especially with all he’s been through. Seems like a nice guy too
- sbroads24

Overrated

I know some ppl are gonna HATE this, but...
If Botts doesn’t feel he can make the moves so that we can be a playoff contender THIS YEAR...
then we should have 2 clear objectives:

1) identify those who aren’t part of the future- then play them in spots to try & get their trade value as high as possible
Ex: Girgensons-Eichel-Okposo
Ex: Dahlin-Bogosian

2) play the kids in situations that give them a real shot, so we can decide who should stay & who should go
Don’t waste bringing in another Pouliot-like Vet... it does NOTHING to move us forward

Jbotts wants a winger that can and has scored consistently.

Vanek is that guy.

Like Michael has mentioned before, each guy doesn't have to be fast to be a fast team.

Vanek will get you 20/25 goals and 55/60 points with our centers and high end talent.

Jbotts may want speed, but that's for the draft. Keep picking fast guys, then 1 can eventually replace vanek
- Boss34

Unless he’s on a 1 year deal, where we can trade him at the deadline for a pick,
then no thanks

Maybe if we were closer to a playoff spot?

Also, from Vanek’s perspective...
he’s gotta be chasing a Cup at this point
He’ll get offers from legit contenders
No reason to sign with a team he “hopes” will compete for a playoff spot

I know some ppl are gonna HATE this, but...
If Botts doesn’t feel he can make the moves so that we can be a playoff contender THIS YEAR...
then we should have 2 clear objectives:

1) identify those who aren’t part of the future- then play them in spots to try & get their trade value as high as possible
Ex: Girgensons-Eichel-Okposo
Ex: Dahlin-Bogosian

2) play the kids in situations that give them a real shot, so we can decide who should stay & who should go
Don’t waste bringing in another Pouliot-like Vet... it does NOTHING to move us forward
- jdfitz77

Never again. Never, ever again. He played almost half a year with Eichel and sucked. Someone will take a shot on him for a 6th rounder. Cut and run. I would rather "waste" a season and play a mix of Olofsson/Nylander/CJ Smith/Erod there and see if any of them show chemistry.

Okposo is a bit different because he still has game. If Girgs ever had it, he lost it when Nolan was fired

Never again. Never, ever again. He played almost half a year with Eichel and sucked. Someone will take a shot on him for a 6th rounder. Cut and run. I would rather "waste" a season and play a mix of Olofsson/Nylander/CJ Smith/Erod there and see if any of them show chemistry.

Okposo is a bit different because he still has game. If Girgs ever had it, he lost it when Nolan was fired
- jcragcrumple

Did he though?
I feel like Girgs got moved around constantly
And even in games where he started on a line with Eichel, was he actually left there all game?

Again... this is if we don’t feel we are “winning” this year
Maybe Girgs with Eichel is a bit too far,
but my point stands
Try to maximize player value instead of just dumping former 1st rounders for a 6th round pick

Unless he’s on a 1 year deal, where we can trade him at the deadline for a pick,
then no thanks

Maybe if we were closer to a playoff spot?

Also, from Vanek’s perspective...
he’s gotta be chasing a Cup at this point
He’ll get offers from legit contenders
No reason to sign with a team he “hopes” will compete for a playoff spot
- jdfitz77

Vanek hasn't been chasing a cup for years.

Signing last with Detroit and Vancouver.

It's open to trading him at the deadline.
Why wouldn't you want a cheap 20 plus goal scorer?

Vanek is a real professional nhl player. 900 plus games, playoff experience and proven.

Exactly what the Sabres need. A cheap fa scoring winger who may want to sign in/with buffalo knowing the area and some former teammates.

SLAM DUNK

Okposo's goals per 60, A1 per 60, points per 60 are all well ahead of Girgensons by at least a2-1 margin and at times a 3-1 margin

https://www.hockey-refere...o/okposky01-advanced.html

https://www.hockey-refere...g/girgeze01-advanced.html


Edit: Girgensons corsi for % was 43 and Okposo is 56%
- jcragcrumple

Zemgus was ahead by plenty of measures as well. He was ahead in WAR and 5v5 GAR. An absurd amount of Okposo's value came from the PP. He was very bad last year.

What I don’t get is everyone, even the haters think O’Reilly is good but is “overpaid” by about 2 million. These same people then want to overpay Tavares by about 2 million. Overpaying someone is overpaying someone. It doesn’t matter who it is on the roster, Tavares at 11 million is overpaying him.

What’s also comical are the same people saying they would love O’Reilly at 5.5 million but would trade him and retain 2 million, basically making his salary 5.5 for us in that scenario
- Fattony1187

I'll add to that, they said the same about Ryan Miller as well, if only he made 3 mill a year. So ROR at 5 is ok and he can voice his opinons but he can't at 7.5.

We don't need to pay Tavares 11 mill a year, not at this stage this team is in.

Did he though?
I feel like Girgs got moved around constantly
And even in games where he started on a line with Eichel, was he actually left there all game?

Again... this is if we don’t feel we are “winning” this year
Maybe Girgs with Eichel is a bit too far,
but my point stands
Try to maximize player value instead of just dumping former 1st rounders for a 6th round pick
- jdfitz77

If you look at his dobber stats, he played over 50% of his shifts this year with either Eichel or ROR. He just brings nothing offensively.

I'll add to that, they said the same about Ryan Miller as well, if only he made 3 mill a year. So ROR at 5 is ok and he can voice his opinons but he can't at 7.5.

We don't need to pay Tavares 11 mill a year, not at this stage this team is in.
- SABRES 89

I agree, there's no way travares ends up here. But, imagine keeping ror and signing jt

Ror-eichel-sam
Mitts- jt- okposo
Vanek-erod-wilson
Pommer-girgs- ahl guy

Zemgus was ahead by plenty of measures as well. He was ahead in WAR and 5v5 GAR. An absurd amount of Okposo's value came from the PP. He was very bad last year.
- Lunaion

They're not even in the same league - I mean they are literally, but - one had 15 goals this year, and one had 15 points. Girgensons just doesn't have 1 attribute that sets him above others. There's no single thing he does that's really good.

The stats I posted show that he just can't create, even with the help of other players. He's another one of our failed mid-to-late firsts. We'd be no worse off playing Wilson at 4C, or paying someone off the street. All these guys from this year - Josefson, larsson, Girgensons, Nolan, Moulson, Criscuolo, Griffith, Pouliot. They're all mediocre or worse

Or maybe he needs a fresh start. I'm fine with that

I’d say 25g-35a-60pts should be possible if he plays with Jack all year
Maybe even more assists if Jack shoots more 5v5
- jdfitz77

Odds of Kyle playing the full season with Jack and staying on first PP all year is close to 0%. They've barely played together in two years and Phil has never rolled consistent lines for any significant length of time. Better to just hope his play improves, and not worry about the production. That could easily drop, depending on his role.

Vanek hasn't been chasing a cup for years.

Signing last with Detroit and Vancouver.

It's open to trading him at the deadline.
Why wouldn't you want a cheap 20 plus goal scorer?

Vanek is a real professional nhl player. 900 plus games, playoff experience and proven.

Exactly what the Sabres need. A cheap fa scoring winger who may want to sign in/with buffalo knowing the area and some former teammates.

SLAM DUNK
- Boss34

Vanek scores 24 goals last year
17 & 18 the 2 previous years,
which is why he was stuck signing with Detroit & Vancouver
He had a good year last season though,
so he should have much better options in free agency this year

It’s not happening

I’ll bet u anything u want

If you look at his dobber stats, he played over 50% of his shifts this year with either Eichel or ROR. He just brings nothing offensively.
- jcragcrumple

I wouldn’t expect him to with O’Reilly (and all the def zone starts)

What was his % of shifts with Jack?

Odds of Kyle playing the full season with Jack and staying on first PP all year is close to 0%. They've barely played together in two years and Phil has never rolled consistent lines for any significant length of time. Better to just hope his play improves, and not worry about the production. That could easily drop, depending on his role.
- Lunaion

Idk if it will happen...
but it’s my OPINION of what we SHOULD do

Bc that would maximize his numbers, thus increasing his trade value
Or at least making him tradable,
which he probably isn’t right now

He’s “fine”
But all the big objections to ROR are the same or worse with him
-age, contract, injuries/breaking down, style of play, etc

Obviously he isn’t gonna get the same return as if we traded ROR
But Okposo’s contract should be one we focus on moving imo
- jdfitz77

Difference is we’re stuck with Okposo. Not stuck with O’Reilly

Obviously O’Reilly is a lot better than Okposo right now

I wouldn’t expect him to with O’Reilly (and all the def zone starts)

What was his % of shifts with Jack?
- jdfitz77

Looks like about 32%

He had 46% of his points there.

Eichel effect.

They're not even in the same league - I mean they are literally, but - one had 15 goals this year, and one had 15 points. Girgensons just doesn't have 1 attribute that sets him above others. There's no single thing he does that's really good.

The stats I posted show that he just can't create, even with the help of other players. He's another one of our failed mid-to-late firsts. We'd be no worse off playing Wilson at 4C, or paying someone off the street. All these guys from this year - Josefson, larsson, Girgensons, Nolan, Moulson, Criscuolo, Griffith, Pouliot. They're all mediocre or worse

Or maybe he needs a fresh start. I'm fine with that
- jcragcrumple

Take away the PP, and it's 23 to 15. When you start looking deeper into 5v5 stats, Gus played better. I'm not a huge Gus fan, it's just Kyle was that bad last year. There's nothing good about this conversation, it's just a whole lot of bad.

Difference is we’re stuck with Okposo. Not stuck with O’Reilly

Obviously O’Reilly is a lot better than Okposo right now
- sbroads24

Of course
That’s why i want to see Okposo play with Jack all year & on PP1
Then hopefully he can rebound to the point where we can move the contract
Even if we don’t get much back

Okposo is a guy I’d be comfortable trading for “what ifs”
ROR, i want a legit return for if moved

Okposo’s modified NTC kicks in next year. If he had a good year, we probably wouldnt be talking about trading him, but it might be easier if we were.

Looks like about 32%

He had 46% of his points there.

Eichel effect.
- jcragcrumple

So if he played the whole year with Eichel...
10+ goals, maybe 15?

I know that we can have Bailey or Baptiste do the same thing

But in my example,
maybe we get a 3rd for Girgs instead of the 6th u say to dump him for now

I won’t be mad if we didn’t do that
And i totally get your objections
Just trying to say that maximizing assets should al least be considered over just dumping anyone for whatever we can get