It's not going to happen. If we need a contingency at C that should be drafted next year. Dmen often take much longer to develop. What's the point in strengthening the C position if we still have a gaping hole at D and have no prospects developing there?

It would be ridiculous for the Canucks to draft Kotkaniemi with more valuable players at the defense position still available.
- NorthNuck

More valuable in what sense? Just wondering because that's a purely subjective statement. BPA is a very subjective thing outside of the top three IMO.

More valuable in what sense? Just wondering because that's a purely subjective statement. BPA is a very subjective thing outside of the top three IMO.
- LeftCoaster

It is but when most scouts have him solidly several spots behind players that will be available to us and are at more of a positional need it's completely illogical to think the Canucks would reach down and take a player who plays in a position that is not Defense.

I doubt there's very many scouts you could talk to who would say Kotkaniemi is more valuable than Hughes or Dobson.

It is but when most scouts have him solidly several spots behind players that will be available to us and are at more of a positional need it's completely illogical to think the Canucks would reach down and take a player who plays in a position that is not Defense.

I doubt there's very many scouts you could talk to who would say Kotkaniemi is more valuable than Hughes or Dobson.
- NorthNuck

Same could have been said about Peterson...

Back then CHL was the main and only way. Keep up with the times old timer. Things are changing
- VANTEL

That list only goes back 15 years, so, no it wasn't the "only way". I played the game in the mid 80's and guys were going to college back then out of tier II junior. Sure it's more prevalent now as the better USA kids are choosing that route but USA college has been around a long time.

I suspect Gaudette falls into the Vessey category than the Gaudreau category is all I'm saying. Which is fine, he was a fifth round pick.

Different eras. Modern stats show that a star players most productive years are usually 22-25.
I also have him as the 2C that year behind Bo. My point is we will be okay C-wise in a couple years, thus we only need a 2 year stop-gap
- NorthNuck

No. This is just straight up false. Prime production is still 24-29. Some guys are just good enough to be productive earlier than that.

It is but when most scouts have him solidly several spots behind players that will be available to us and are at more of a positional need it's completely illogical to think the Canucks would reach down and take a player who plays in a position that is not Defense.

I doubt there's very many scouts you could talk to who would say Kotkaniemi is more valuable than Hughes or Dobson.
- NorthNuck

Hughes yes Dobson not so sure. I would not be surprised if Mtl take Kotkaniemi or Hughes

SHINKUR FOR GRANLUND
2ND FOR SVEN
DRAFT PETERSON
- Pres.cup

Be interesting to see in a few years where Sven and granlund are and what Ras becomes

No. This is just straight up false. Prime production is still 24-29. Some guys are just good enough to be productive earlier than that.
- neem55

You're wrong because I say you're wrong

It is but when most scouts have him solidly several spots behind players that will be available to us and are at more of a positional need it's completely illogical to think the Canucks would reach down and take a player who plays in a position that is not Defense.

I doubt there's very many scouts you could talk to who would say Kotkaniemi is more valuable than Hughes or Dobson.
- NorthNuck

I hear what you're saying, but, it depends what list you're looking at. Some have Kot at 16th some have him at 12th (Dobson is 14th on this list).

The difference between the 7th and 12th pick could be minimal, or, it could be huge, therein lies the problem.

That list only goes back 15 years, so, no it wasn't the "only way". I played the game in the mid 80's and guys were going to college back then out of tier II junior. Sure it's more prevalent now as the better USA kids are choosing that route but USA college has been around a long time.

I suspect Gaudette falls into the Vessey category than the Gaudreau category is all I'm saying. Which is fine, he was a fifth round pick.
- LeftCoaster

Ten years ago the NCAA was made up of players not good enough for the CHL

Hughes yes Dobson not so sure. I would not be surprised if Mtl take Kotkaniemi or Hughes
- VANTEL

Montreal would have to be insane to not take Zadina

I hear what you're saying, but, it depends what list you're looking at. Some have Kot at 16th some have him at 12th (Dobson is 14th on this list).

The difference between the 7th and 12th pick could be minimal, or, it could be huge, therein lies the problem.
- LeftCoaster

Buttons has Kotkaniemi at 5

Montreal would have to be insane to not take Zadina
- NorthNuck

Did you see Zadina's tweet yesterday?

Interesting comment from Filip Zadina pertaining to #Habs in @Michael_Traikos story: "Montreal, I know very well. I've been to the city many times and they're fans are awesome. But I think they're looking for a centre or a D."

I hear what you're saying, but, it depends what list you're looking at. Some have Kot at 16th some have him at 12th (Dobson is 14th on this list).

The difference between the 7th and 12th pick could be minimal, or, it could be huge, therein lies the problem.
- LeftCoaster

If it comes down to pure speculation then why would you take the player at the position in which you are stronger? Even if you throw rankings out the window and say "Dman A and Centre B are essentially the same skill level" Then the Canucks should take the defenseman 10 times out of 10 because we desperately need top end D prospects. If we're horrible again next year and draft high, take a centre then, because he is very likely to be NHL ready faster than whichever D we take this year.

You're wrong because I say you're wrong
- NorthNuck

Well no. It’s just when you look at every superstar in the league, the majority of them don’t peak until 24. Look at the top three Dmen in the league and tell me at what age they started producing at their top level. Same with goalies. I would say it might be a little earlier window for forwards, but I’d put bank on the highest average point total adjusted by age would be one of 24-26 years old. I’m not going to make an excel, but you don’t have to go far to see this trend.

Buttons has Kotkaniemi at 5
- VANTEL

https://canucksarmy.com/2...hl-draft-spring-rankings/

I don't know how they made up these rankings because I didn't read the whole thing but he's 10th here and Dobson is 13th.

If it comes down to pure speculation then why would you take the player at the position in which you are stronger? Even if you throw rankings out the window and say "Dman A and Centre B are essentially the same skill level" Then the Canucks should take the defenseman 10 times out of 10 because we desperately need top end D prospects. If we're horrible again next year and draft high, take a centre then, because he is very likely to be NHL ready faster than whichever D we take this year.
- NorthNuck

Again it depends who you talk to because I'd take the center over the dman right now for the Canucks because they're so weak there right now. As is the defence but you can get by with that where you simply can't with weakness down the middle.

For the record I'd be getting another 2nd rounder and taking two defensemen in the second round!

Well no. It’s just when you look at every superstar in the league, the majority of them don’t peak until 24. Look at the top three Dmen in the league and tell me at what age they started producing at their top level. Same with goalies. I would say it might be a little earlier window for forwards, but I’d put bank on the highest average point total adjusted by age would be one of 24-26 years old. I’m not going to make an excel, but you don’t have to go far to see this trend.
- neem55

I was talking forwards, because the conversation was around Pettersson. Dmen yes they tend to arrive a couple years later. Goalies are totally their own breed.

https://hockey-graphs.com...s-for-nhl-skaters-part-1/

Here's an example, not the only piece I've read on the subject but this guy goes into a fair amount of detail and concludes that past the age of 25 or so players start to decline.

https://canucksarmy.com/2018/05/04/2018-nhl-draft-spring-rankings/

I don't know how they made up these rankings because I didn't read the whole thing but he's 10th here and Dobson is 13th.
- LeftCoaster

I am listening to Tony G at the moment and his take on prospects . It is one of the best takes ever. He said I refuse to make a prediction . He said pro scouts watch them all year and still screw up a high percentage of the time. He called a lot of the insiders posers lol. He said Bob Mac watches NHL games all year how does he get to scouting them

And this too
- Nucker101

Yep, but a couple of extra picks would be nice in this years draft.

Again it depends who you talk to because I'd take the center over the dman right now for the Canucks because they're so weak there right now. As is the defence but you can get by with that where you simply can't with weakness down the middle.

For the record I'd be getting another 2nd rounder and taking two defensemen in the second round!
- LeftCoaster

Canucks at the moment are stronger on D than at Center.

Again it depends who you talk to because I'd take the center over the dman right now for the Canucks because they're so weak there right now. As is the defence but you can get by with that where you simply can't with weakness down the middle.

For the record I'd be getting another 2nd rounder and taking two defensemen in the second round!
- LeftCoaster

You need 4 Cs and 6 Dmen per night.

We have a hole at 2C but we have Bo who can manage in the 1C role, Sutter is a good 3C, and a few guys who can play 4C. If you draft a C prospect this year, he is not going to be our 2C this coming season. Theoretically, by the time he is ready to be our 2C, Pettersson will already be in that role or will have swapped 1/2 roles with Bo.

At D, we have 3 competant Dmen in Edler Tanev and Stecher. MDZ, Gudbranson, etc. are just there to fill the slots until we have someone better to replace them with. Juolevi hopefully can establish himself within 2 years as a 2nd pairing, but by that time we'll want to be rid of Edler and Tanev also might not be here. That leaves AT MINIMUM 2 top 4 D slots totally unfilled and we have 0 prospects in the system who are likely to fill them.

Drafting D over C in the 1st round seems like a no brainer to me unless the C is the substantially better player.

Canucks at the moment are stronger on D than at Center.
- VANTEL

But we don't draft for the immediate, we draft for the future.

Edler and Tanev won't be around forever. Bo will be here a long time, Pettersson will be here a long time, Gaudette hopefully will be here a long time.

The Defense pipeline is empty at the moment.

Canucks at the moment are stronger on D than at Center.
- VANTEL

We have 2 capable defencemen and 6 capable forwards. Lots of holes I in the lineup, but I disagree

You need 4 Cs and 6 Dmen per night.

We have a hole at 2C but we have Bo who can manage in the 1C role, Sutter is a good 3C, and a few guys who can play 4C. If you draft a C prospect this year, he is not going to be our 2C this coming season. Theoretically, by the time he is ready to be our 2C, Pettersson will already be in that role or will have swapped 1/2 roles with Bo.

At D, we have 3 competant Dmen in Edler Tanev and Stecher. MDZ, Gudbranson, etc. are just there to fill the slots until we have someone better to replace them with. Juolevi hopefully can establish himself within 2 years as a 2nd pairing, but by that time we'll want to be rid of Edler and Tanev also might not be here. That leaves AT MINIMUM 2 top 4 D slots totally unfilled and we have 0 prospects in the system who are likely to fill them.


Drafting D over C in the 1st round seems like a no brainer to me unless the C is the substantially better player.
- NorthNuck

OJ has been in the minors 2 years
Sautner looks almost ready
Chatfield is getting close
Brisebois has been progressing
Tryamkin is still part of our prospects