Our GMs said we will probably need to trade a core piece. This is how the discussion on RoR Risto and Reinhart started.
- Shadman306

A short history on how the fans deduced that these 3 needed to be questioned:

Who are your best players? Jack, Casey, ROR, Okposo, Reinhart, Ristolainen

Jack is untouchable
Casey is not far behind
Okposo is unmovable

Leaves you with ROR, Reinhart, Risto

Risto can be an excellent 2nd pairing RD, something this and most teams are short on. Trading him for anything less than a premium makes zero sense.

Reinhart is the most talented RW coming off an ELC. We're short on wing talent and also doesn't make any sense. He's very young and very talented.

This brings us to ROR. We have our 1C and future 2C, who will likely be playing 2/3C minutes next year. Finding a C to play Dzone/PK/faceoffs is not THAT hard to find in a trade or FA. ROR is older and slower than the player base we're trying to create. He has the most value and comes from a position of relative strength for the Sabres. He's probably not worth 7.5 to other teams, but at least they know the asset can't run from them. So he's locked down.

He's our most valuable, tradable asset.

I have to side with your best buddy and ask you the question then. How does this team get better without shaking up the players that, or are supposed to, make the most impact?
- TheSabresTaco

1) Dahlin
2) Mittelstadt
3) better goalie play
4) much improved defense, which also helps the offense- since they’ll be able to get the puck up the ice
5) integrating players with speed that can actually play the system Botts & Housley want
6) getting rid of the “dead weight” that provides little to no production

ALL of that is being done
And i don’t see how anyone can argue those things won’t help

Also,
Continued growth from young players
Sam & Okposo not being terrible for the first half of the season


So that’s 8 reasons right there why “this team should get better”

1) Dahlin
2) Mittelstadt
3) better goalie play
4) much improved defense, which also helps the offense- since they’ll be able to get the puck up the ice
5) bringing in players with speed that can actually play the system Botts & Housley want
6) getting rid of the “dead weight” that provides little to no production

ALL of that is being done
And i don’t see how anyone can argue those things won’t help

Also,
Continued growth from young players
Sam & Okposo not being terrible for the first half of the season


So that’s 8 reasons right there why “this team should get better”
- jdfitz77

Tell me how you're sure this happens without changing a core piece. You think people just want our garbage?

A short history on how the fans deduced that these 3 needed to be questioned:

Who are your best players? Jack, Casey, ROR, Okposo, Reinhart, Ristolainen

Jack is untouchable
Casey is not far behind
Okposo is unmovable

Leaves you with ROR, Reinhart, Risto

Risto can be an excellent 2nd pairing RD, something this and most teams are short on. Trading him for anything less than a premium makes zero sense.

Reinhart is the most talented RW coming off an ELC. We're short on wing talent and also doesn't make any sense. He's very young and very talented.

This brings us to ROR. We have our 1C and future 2C, who will likely be playing 2/3C minutes next year. Finding a C to play Dzone/PK/faceoffs is not THAT hard to find in a trade or FA. ROR is older and slower than the player base we're trying to create. He has the most value and comes from a position of relative strength for the Sabres. He's probably not worth 7.5 to other teams, but at least they know the asset can't run from them. So he's locked down.

He's our most valuable, tradable asset.
- TheSabresTaco

we are on the same page right?

Every account, eyewitness, etc has this dressing room in shambles. Yeah, you pretty much have to trade a core piece.

That doesn't mean you don't get a core piece back in a trade.

Are we not in this to win a championship? Why are we afraid of change, especially with this group?
- Powerslave

Impossible. Everyone is best friends all the time. Fake NEWS!!!111

1) Dahlin
2) Mittelstadt
3) better goalie play
4) much improved defense, which also helps the offense- since they’ll be able to get the puck up the ice
5) integrating players with speed that can actually play the system Botts & Housley want
6) getting rid of the “dead weight” that provides little to no production

ALL of that is being done
And i don’t see how anyone can argue those things won’t help

Also,
Continued growth from young players
Sam & Okposo not being terrible for the first half of the season


So that’s 8 reasons right there why “this team should get better”
- jdfitz77

1.) Rookie albeit should be a stud but there will be growing pains
2.) See above
3.) Who?
4.) How? One player doesn't change this
5.) What players? Casey is one, Dahlin is another, that still leaves holes on the wing
6.) Where were these moves?

So 6 out of your 8 points are all unproven theories or things that hasn't happened

we are on the same page right?
- Shadman306

You and I are, in the least.

Every account, eyewitness, etc has this dressing room in shambles. Yeah, you pretty much have to trade a core piece.

That doesn't mean you don't get a core piece back in a trade.

Are we not in this to win a championship? Why are we afraid of change, especially with this group?
- Powerslave

And I’m on record (MANY, MANY) times saying that I’m ok with a trade that brings a “core player back”

My arguments generally are directed at those who want to dump ROR for “parts” and cap relief

Hope Yamamoto can switch to RHD, cuz your not drafting a RHD with #10 that will be ready in the next 2 years
- turbo044

Bouchard might fall there
He’s probably ready this year,
next at the latest

And I’m on record (MANY, MANY) times saying that I’m ok with a trade that brings a “core player back”

My arguments generally are directed at those who want to dump ROR for “parts” and cap relief
- jdfitz77

do you consider Zadina parts?

I have to side with your best buddy and ask you the question then. How does this team get better without shaking up the players that, or are supposed to, make the most impact?
- TheSabresTaco

Because we are still adding these types of players... Dahlin is a HUGE add to this team. Casey is a big part moving forward... trying to hurry this got us into trouble last time, now is not the time to do it again... there will probably be a huge turnover in the lower ranks. Let’s see where that takes us.

I guess the way I always saw it was, Risto traded for winger +. While O'Reilly would be traded for a D +.

So thats the hope that both trades are needed.

I would rather keep Risto at this point. Would have to be a steal of a deal to consider. Something like 2 or 3 overall. Or Taylor Hall. haha.
- Lilroot9

Sure. Why not. As long as the end result doesn't create a massive hole, do however many trades are necessary. Just don't be Ottawa or Montreal or Edmonton or Boston.

And I’m on record (MANY, MANY) times saying that I’m ok with a trade that brings a “core player back”

My arguments generally are directed at those who want to dump ROR for “parts” and cap relief
- jdfitz77

Why would anyone want to dump ROR for only parts, only cap relief, or a combo of the two?

Every single person here realizes he's our most valuable, tradable asset.

And I’m on record (MANY, MANY) times saying that I’m ok with a trade that brings a “core player back”

My arguments generally are directed at those who want to dump ROR for “parts” and cap relief
- jdfitz77

No one has ever said this.

Why would anyone want to dump ROR for only parts, only cap relief, or a combo of the two?

Every single person here realizes he's our most valuable, tradable asset.
- TheSabresTaco

Several people have suggested a couple second rounder and a prospect or a cap dump. Others have suggested ROR for an expiring contract. Both bad ideas imo

Because we are still adding these types of players... Dahlin is a HUGE add to this team. Casey is a big part moving forward... trying to hurry this got us into trouble last time, now is not the time to do it again... there will probably be a huge turnover in the lower ranks. Let’s see where that takes us.
- gordong

So your statement suggests for us to simply leave everything in place and let the pieces fall where they may? Or, instead, trade assets that do not fall into that long term model you have suggested to get other long term pieces.

Sure. Why not. As long as the end result doesn't create a massive hole, do however many trades are necessary. Just don't be Ottawa or Montreal or Edmonton or Boston.
- TheSabresTaco

But yet you want to trade our top RHD for a winger and have Bogo be our best RHD.

And also want to trade our top FO guy and 2C so that a kid w/ 6 games under his belt is our 2C.

David Pagnotta
‏

@TheFourthPeriod
16m16 minutes ago
More
Chatter around Awards week on Rangers has club exploring deals on Zuccarello, and teams been calling on Skjei

There's a new name on the chatter block.

Because we are still adding these types of players... Dahlin is a HUGE add to this team. Casey is a big part moving forward... trying to hurry this got us into trouble last time, now is not the time to do it again... there will probably be a huge turnover in the lower ranks. Let’s see where that takes us.
- gordong

let me guess.
Replace Larsson, Girgensons, moulson
with
Malone, Bailey, Baptiste

And this team is 20-30 points better next season.

Did people forget this team finished with 25 wins. a 15 win improvement is still a sub .500 hockey team.

The changes that are needed are drastic. Changing the 4th line is not drastic.

Dahlin is drastic, but he is not enough.

Then there is the you cant trade ROR because Middlestadt isn't ready, but Middlestadt is going to make a huge impact. Which one is it? not ready, or huge impact?

Several people have suggested a couple second rounder and a prospect or a cap dump. Others have suggested ROR for an expiring contract. Both bad ideas imo
- jcragcrumple

ROR for Patch, straight up, is (frank)ing stupid.

ROR for a pair of 2nd rounders is (frank)ing stupid.

ROR for Skinner, straight up, is less (frank)ing stupid. If it's Skinner + with the assurance of a reasonable LT contract, then it's a smart move, IMO.

But yet you want to trade our top RHD for a winger and have Bogo be our best RHD.

And also want to trade our top FO guy and 2C so that a kid w/ 6 games under his belt is our 2C.


- JVince11

I do? Quote me.

Actually, quote me on both points.

1.) Rookie albeit should be a stud but there will be growing pains
2.) See above
3.) Who?
4.) How? One player doesn't change this
5.) What players? Casey is one, Dahlin is another, that still leaves holes on the wing
6.) Where were these moves?

So 6 out of your 8 points are all unproven theories or things that hasn't happened
- Stripes77

1) Better than Falk, Fedun or Tennyson already = upgrade
2) Upgrade from Larsson or Josefson = upgrade
3) Ullmark should help for some games and I expect Lehner to be better if back or an upgrade to be signed
4) Pilut, Dahlin, Guhle...it isn't just one player.
5) Mittelstadt, Dahlin and a full year of Guhle is something. We still don't know what other trades will be made, any UFA signings or how guys like Malone, Olofsson or Asplund will do
6) Too early

Some are unproven theories and others are fact. We will get better incrementally this year, the question is how much...

But yet you want to trade our top RHD for a winger and have Bogo be our best RHD.

And also want to trade our top FO guy and 2C so that a kid w/ 6 games under his belt is our 2C.


- JVince11

Can people stop this. Faceoff % is nearly a pointless stat.

95% of faceoffs don't mean a damn thing.

Several people have suggested a couple second rounder and a prospect or a cap dump. Others have suggested ROR for an expiring contract. Both bad ideas imo
- jcragcrumple

I have never seen that.

There was one expret that said ROR is a cap dump, but one here. no one has typed those words.

ROR for Patch, straight up, is (frank)ing stupid.

ROR for a pair of 2nd rounders is (frank)ing stupid.

ROR for Skinner, straight up, is less (frank)ing stupid. If it's Skinner + with the assurance of a reasonable LT contract, then it's a smart move, IMO.
- TheSabresTaco

Skinner is not coming for less than 7x7 imo. It's at best a lateral move, and I personally believe that with the secondary characteristics that ROR brings (no penalties, FOs, pk), it's actually a pretty bad move