Doughty set the bar. He has won two Cups, a Norris and is consistently considered the best two-way defenseman in the league. I don't think he took much less to stay in LA. They paid him pretty fairly considering what Carlson and OEL got paid. Doughty clearly deserved more than them and got significantly more too.

If Karlsson plays this year, wins the Norris and even a Cup and/or Conn Smythe (obviously not on Ottawa), then his value would become inflated and he might get more than Doughty. But if he signs right now either with Ottawa or whatever team acquires him, I think 11 million would already be an overpayment and that's what he'd max out at on the open market anyway.
- Unholy_Goalie

If karlsson makes it to free agency the starting point will be 11m. Bidding war he will get more.

Sobotka is playing in Europe no?
- HealthyScratch6

he played a full season for Blues last year, after returning to the team last year for the playoffs (if i remember well).

How?

St. Louis dumped Sobotka and Bergland, got O'Reilly who is pretty damn good, and they didn't give up any of their top 2 or 3 prospects or Parayko.

That's pretty amazing.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Yeah they got a 1st, 2nd and 3 3rd liners for an overpaid, slightly overrated centre. Not bad. Not amazing.

Some drunk bloke told me the Leafs signed JT in the pub as we were there for the World Cup. Thought he was lying. He went on to say Montreal, Ottawa and Edmonton did nothing, but Vancouver signed loads of scrubs he's never heard of for 4 or 5 years. I believed him at that point.
- walshyleafsfan

Yeah they got a 1st, 2nd and 3 3rd liners for an overpaid, slightly overrated centre. Not bad. Not amazing.
- walshyleafsfan

I agree that he is overpaid. Still really good, though.

Get rid of Gardiner and/or Zaitsev. Get rid of Marleau. Trade Nylander for an ELC top-4 prospect. Problem solved.

If Karlsson makes the same as Doughty (which would be overpaying Karlsson), they can fit him in.
- Unholy_Goalie

Their not trading Nylander or Marleau.

Per Shams Charania, LeBron James has signed a 4-year $154 million contract with the Los Angeles Lakers.LeBron James has signed a 4-year $154 million contract with the Los Angeles Lakers.
- LeafsFan23

Crazy money. But he is Lebron.

Did Bozak really get paid under 2mil a year?
- AdamFrench

you're drunk, Adam..

5>2

Their not trading Nylander or Marleau.
- nbboy

If Marleau is the only thing holding the Leafs back from getting Karlsson, or any legit top pairing RHD, you can bet your last dollar he's (frank)ing gone.

And JVR

Old guard pretty much gone. New era begins.
- Roadrunner75

I really respected Bozie and JVR as players. JVR was and will continue to be a great player. The Leafs had to know they were getting JT a couple of years ago. I don't care what anyone says, it's not a conspiracy theory either. Just plain old common sense in business. There's no way they could not have secretly discussed it and hammered out a verbal deal. There's also many ways they can compensate him behind the scenes without ANYONE knowing. Just by the fact that they let some key players walk for nothing is evidence enough. No way the Leafs let JVR, Bozak or even Komi go without knowing they are taking on a key player or two in free agency. If they don't know they're landing a BIG fish, they easily re-sign JVR for the same or more than any other team before he even gets to FA. I don't have any evidence other than glaringly obvious logic.

If Marleau is the only thing holding the Leafs back from getting Karlsson, or any legit top pairing RHD, you can bet your last dollar he's (frank)ing gone.
- Unholy_Goalie

With his contract the leafs would probably need to sweeten the deal to trade Marleau. Assuming he probably has a no trade as well.

you're drunk, Adam..

5>2
- MaximusAurelius

I read the TSN article wrong

I really respected Bozie and JVR as players. JVR was and will continue to be a great player. The Leafs had to know they were getting JT a couple of years ago. I don't care what anyone says, it's not a conspiracy theory either. Just plain old common sense in business. There's no way they could not have secretly discussed it and hammered out a verbal deal. There's also many ways they can compensate him behind the scenes without ANYONE knowing. Just by the fact that they let some key players walk for nothing is evidence enough. No way the Leafs let JVR, Bozak or even Komi go without knowing they are taking on a key player or two in free agency. If they don't know they're landing a BIG fish, they easily re-sign JVR for the same or more than any other team before he even gets to FA. I don't have any evidence other than glaringly obvious logic.
- marklaprise

player needs to want to sign as well.

I really respected Bozie and JVR as players. JVR was and will continue to be a great player. The Leafs had to know they were getting JT a couple of years ago. I don't care what anyone says, it's not a conspiracy theory either. Just plain old common sense in business. There's no way they could not have secretly discussed it and hammered out a verbal deal. There's also many ways they can compensate him behind the scenes without ANYONE knowing. Just by the fact that they let some key players walk for nothing is evidence enough. No way the Leafs let JVR, Bozak or even Komi go without knowing they are taking on a key player or two in free agency. If they don't know they're landing a BIG fish, they easily re-sign JVR for the same or more than any other team before he even gets to FA. I don't have any evidence other than glaringly obvious logic.
- marklaprise

Yeah you're wrong. They could easily let Komarov go cause he's terrible. Leafs didn't want jvr at 7 million and they had a chance to offer bozy a contract if Tavares fell through. No conspiracy.

If Marleau is the only thing holding the Leafs back from getting Karlsson, or any legit top pairing RHD, you can bet your last dollar he's (frank)ing gone.
- Unholy_Goalie

I get what your saying but after luring him here, their not going to trade him.Hes not gonna waive his NMC to go to Carolina or the Peg.


Just like Nylander and others were part of the sell to JT.

I really respected Bozie and JVR as players. JVR was and will continue to be a great player. The Leafs had to know they were getting JT a couple of years ago. I don't care what anyone says, it's not a conspiracy theory either. Just plain old common sense in business. There's no way they could not have secretly discussed it and hammered out a verbal deal. There's also many ways they can compensate him behind the scenes without ANYONE knowing. Just by the fact that they let some key players walk for nothing is evidence enough. No way the Leafs let JVR, Bozak or even Komi go without knowing they are taking on a key player or two in free agency. If they don't know they're landing a BIG fish, they easily re-sign JVR for the same or more than any other team before he even gets to FA. I don't have any evidence other than glaringly obvious logic.
- marklaprise

There is just so much silliness here.

No, the leafs did not know they were getting Tavares years ago.

No, overpaying JVR to play as what would amount to a power play specialist would not have been a good idea, even if Tavares didnt come here.

Im not sure anyone here other than you would characterize your thinking as "logical"

- Unholy_Goalie

This is why we love you.

Sober I could beat most these guys in chell18. Sober being the big issue there

Shore (#4C)
Cogliano (LW for Kadri line - trade some guy)
Lehner (backup goalie)

Leafs add these 3, and I'm happy.
The addition of a D-man can still happen trade deadline if necessary.
If Leafs can work a Gardiner ++ trade for Manson or Myers, that would be awesome.

I get what your saying but after luring him here, their not going to trade him.

Just like Nylander and others were part of the sell to JT.
- nbboy

Lou signed him, not Dubas. Doesn't make the team look that bad, especially if it's a move that improves the team.

Do you want a legit top pairing RHD and go for a Cup or are you worried about a guy at the end of his career? Team comes first, bye bye Marleau if that's what needs to happen.

Marner and Matthews were part of the sell to Tavares, not Nylander. And if after a year or two, the Leafs still can't go deep in the playoffs and the defense is still an obvious problem, Nylander should not be immune to trade because it'll be known what needs to happen; improve the defense at the cost of the offense.

Obviously Tavares and Matthews are untouchable and Marner, through his similar hometown roots and association with Tavares, likely playing beside him, Nylander is the odd man out. It sucks but if a sacrifice has to be made to improve the team, then it must be done.

With his contract the leafs would probably need to sweeten the deal to trade Marleau. Assuming he probably has a no trade as well.
- HealthyScratch6

Send him back to San Jose. They're still going to be a playoff team and they just lost out on Tavares and JVR. They could use the 20 goal scorer. San Jose only didn't keep him because they didn't want to give him a 3 year deal. His 3 year deal is now a 2 year deal. If Karlsson becomes available after this season, it's a 1 year deal left on Marleau's contract, if he plays at all.

Lou signed him, not Dubas. Doesn't make the team look that bad, especially if it's a move that improves the team.

Do you want a legit top pairing RHD and go for a Cup or are you worried about a guy at the end of his career? Team comes first, bye bye Marleau if that's what needs to happen.

Marner and Matthews were part of the sell to Tavares, not Nylander. And if after a year or two, the Leafs still can't go deep in the playoffs and the defense is still an obvious problem, Nylander should not be immune to trade because it'll be known what needs to happen; improve the defense at the cost of the offense.

Obviously Tavares and Matthews are untouchable and Marner, through his similar hometown roots and association with Tavares, likely playing beside him, Nylander is the odd man out. It sucks but if a sacrifice has to be made to improve the team, then it must be done.
- Unholy_Goalie

Leafs have the assets to make a trade for a good dman without giving up Nylander. Just need the right opportunity. Don't necessarily need the most elite d on the market. Just a solid RHD to play with Rielly. A Manson or tanev type. Obviously not tanev though cause that would cost us Tavares Matthews Marner and Nylander.

Edit:

Leafs have the assets to make a trade for a good dman without giving up Nylander. Just need the right opportunity. Don't necessarily need the most elite d on the market. Just a solid RHD to play with Rielly. A Manson or tanev type. Obviously not tanev though cause that would cost us Tavares Matthews Marner and Nylander.
- HealthyScratch6

If it's a fair deal, you get what you pay for. Yeah, obviously you can try to rip off another team but if you're talking about making a hockey trade, Nylander gets you something legit. And that's the last piece this team needs, is a legit top pairing D. It's worth paying for.

This is why we love you.
- Steven_Seagull

Don't lie to me like that. I don't like liars.

Lou signed him, not Dubas. Doesn't make the team look that bad, especially if it's a move that improves the team.

Do you want a legit top pairing RHD and go for a Cup or are you worried about a guy at the end of his career? Team comes first, bye bye Marleau if that's what needs to happen.

Marner and Matthews were part of the sell to Tavares, not Nylander. And if after a year or two, the Leafs still can't go deep in the playoffs and the defense is still an obvious problem, Nylander should not be immune to trade because it'll be known what needs to happen; improve the defense at the cost of the offense.

Obviously Tavares and Matthews are untouchable and Marner, through his similar hometown roots and association with Tavares, likely playing beside him, Nylander is the odd man out. It sucks but if a sacrifice has to be made to improve the team, then it must be done.
- Unholy_Goalie

of course Nylander was part of the sell.

I'm not the biggest fan of Nylander - he's a very good player, but not Matthews-Marner level.
However, at this point, you keep Nylander.
Toronto will be a posession team, and with Tavares there now, in addition to the young guys still developing (defensively), less issues with Leafs' D weakness.