I'm not. I lied.

However, the phillies are making me happy. Shame they couldn't execute in that first game today.
- Giroux_Is_God

Breaking my heart with these falsities.


Very much so. Nola is absolutely sublime. I do think they are fortunate to have the overall record they do. Still one or two bats away from being true contenders to me. However, it’s still enjoyable baseball. And damn it’s good to have back.

In order to win you have to be able to roll 3 effective lines. Matchups are a major factor in getting the most out of certain lines. What I'm saying is I agree with you. Another example of why line labels are fading into memories is when players are now often referred to as top 6 middle 6 or bottom 6 players as opposed to 1st liners/2nd liners etc.
- Giroux_Is_God

Exactly. You have to evaluate each individual player/situation. Was pascal dupius a first line winger for any other reason than Crosby loved him? Is kessel the fifth or sixth best winger when he gets dropped to the technical third line? The factors that matter are cap space devoted to, ice time, and situational usage.

What about the games when Malkins line starts out first? Is he the one C in that game? Their differences in ice team is usually non existent. Same on the power play. I know this is semantic, but I think that’s the point. The nhl is changing and labels don’t mean as much anymore. Ice time and method of use means more. In my opinion anyway
- stayinthefnnet

It is semantics. Here's the thing that keeps popping into my head. (Not a good thing either).
Two years ago, when the debate raged as to weather or not Coots could even be more than a 3c, I kept seeing posts on here showing Hak holding lineup lists. He always had G 1c, Coots 2c and Flip at 3c.
G's line didn't start every game. It didn't affect the positioning of the lines in the coaches view, just in the match ups he is trying to get. If he double shifts them are they now both the first AND the third line?
The NHL IS a lot different than it was. There were years when lines were mostly set in stone. Now the lines are more fluid. Changes are made as adjustments to the line up during the game. In those days the fourth line and third d pairing hardly ever saw the ice. Dating myself again, but Montreal had a season in the late 70s in their last string of 4 in a row, where they only lost single digit games 8 or 9 and mostly played only 3 d men.
It's a different game today. There isn't a lot of difference in the top 2-3 lines on most of the good teams. The better you get the less difference there is.
I'm looking forward to the next few years. When Rafl, who I like as a a player has trouble cracking the fourth line. Laughton too. Not going to mention the rest of them. Most of the deadwood is gone by next year.

You could always play fortnite with YJ
- VladDrag

He didnt ask me. Besides, he has no time for this silliness. He must devote all his time bonding with the new baby. All the while looking for more tires to burn in his yard.

It is semantics. Here's the thing that keeps popping into my head. (Not a good thing either).
Two years ago, when the debate raged as to weather or not Coots could even be more than a 3c, I kept seeing posts on here showing Hak holding lineup lists. He always had G 1c, Coots 2c and Flip at 3c.
G's line didn't start every game. It didn't affect the positioning of the lines in the coaches view, just in the match ups he is trying to get. If he double shifts them are they now both the first AND the third line?
The NHL IS a lot different than it was. There were years when lines were mostly set in stone. Now the lines are more fluid. Changes are made as adjustments to the line up during the game. In those days the fourth line and third d pairing hardly ever saw the ice. Dating myself again, but Montreal had a season in the late 70s in their last string of 4 in a row, where they only lost single digit games 8 or 9 and mostly played only 3 d men.
It's a different game today. There isn't a lot of difference in the top 2-3 lines on most of the good teams. The better you get the less difference there is.
I'm looking forward to the next few years. When Rafl, who I like as a a player has trouble cracking the fourth line. Laughton too. Not going to mention the rest of them. Most of the deadwood is gone by next year.
- jaws1955

Yeah I think you’re describing pretty much what I mean. Right now you guys definitely have a hole at center behind Patrick. Hextall has done a tremendous job at clearing the dead wood and setting the table with flexibility and assets. At some point though a decision must be made if they want to try to take the next step while giroux and voracek are still front line players or not. I think the jvr signing shows that Hextall is moving the gears towards the present, but they are still that one center away from having the lineup that can go top to bottom. I don’t know what Hextall really could have done though, the player wasn’t necessarily there to find. Maybe Riley Nash, I thought that was a pretty reasonable deal. But then again, Nash probably doesn’t turn a team to cup contender, and if Hextall thinks that position will be filled internally with a guy like frost in the next year or two, maybe he didn’t want to block the path.

Well my man, that's where we differ. In the 30 years that I played hockey, (how many years did you play again?) Never once was I considered a first line player, if I was on the second line. Why, because if I was on the second line it meant there was a better option on the first line.
YES, ON THE PENGUINS, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, HE IS THE 2C.
You can spin points however you want. Can he be the 1c? Not if Crosby is playing in that game. He has done it in the past when Sid was out. But in the games when both play, Crosby is the better player, better option and therefore the 1c. That makes Malkin the 2c. BTW, I don't think there is a team in the league other than the Pens, where he is not the best center on the team, ok, Oilers too.
I like Mathews a lot. I've seen Barkov a lot in person.. But Sid, Malkin, McDavid and Mathews may be in the top 5. It's a real small list of players better than Malkin.
- jaws1955

Uh oh, its the old, I played and you didn't so your opinion is not as good as mine argument!

Exactly. You have to evaluate each individual player/situation. Was pascal dupius a first line winger for any other reason than Crosby loved him? Is kessel the fifth or sixth best winger when he gets dropped to the technical third line? The factors that matter are cap space devoted to, ice time, and situational usage.
- stayinthefnnet

You hit correct on two of your points. Cap space devoted to is meaningless in the course of the game. Pretty sure there isn't a coach who is looking at a players cap hit when making up the line up. Isn't Lethera currently the highest paid center on the team. (Not counting G at LW.) That really is a scary thought.

Uh oh, its the old, I played and you didn't so your opinion is not as good as mine argument!
- MBFlyerfan

No, not really. Just backing up my opinion based on personal experience. I understand his point. I just disagree in that context.
But actually, yeah. Everyone has an opinion. You can either base your opinion on stuff that you read that someone else gathered or you mimic someone else's opinion. The other way is to base it on actual experience.
When I want my car worked on I take to a shop with EXPERIENCED personnel not just people who have read about working on cars. I feel that the opinions of people who have actually done something tends to be both more accurate and therefore more credible.

Yeah I think you’re describing pretty much what I mean. Right now you guys definitely have a hole at center behind Patrick. Hextall has done a tremendous job at clearing the dead wood and setting the table with flexibility and assets. At some point though a decision must be made if they want to try to take the next step while giroux and voracek are still front line players or not. I think the jvr signing shows that Hextall is moving the gears towards the present, but they are still that one center away from having the lineup that can go top to bottom. I don’t know what Hextall really could have done though, the player wasn’t necessarily there to find. Maybe Riley Nash, I thought that was a pretty reasonable deal. But then again, Nash probably doesn’t turn a team to cup contender, and if Hextall thinks that position will be filled internally with a guy like frost in the next year or two, maybe he didn’t want to block the path.
- stayinthefnnet

I think perhaps he had hopes of getting Stastny for two years. I think Nash may have been viewed as a sideways move. Stastny is older then Nash I believe. Think they would pay more for a 2 year deal. Clear him off before cap hell sets in.

You hit correct on two of your points. Cap space devoted to is meaningless in the course of the game. Pretty sure there isn't a coach who is looking at a players cap hit when making up the line up. Isn't Lethera currently the highest paid center on the team. (Not counting G at LW.) That really is a scary thought.
- jaws1955

i meant more as far of importance to team. just because lethera is a poor allocation of assets doesnt mean that cap space is irrelevant in determining a players overall worth as an asset to the franchise, his just happens to be a negative one, especially when that factor is considered.

my point being, say at some stretch of the season raffl finds his way onto the first while JVR is on the third at even strength in order to bring some scoring to that line. raffl costing sub mill or whatever, JVR costing his seven. JVR getting special teams minutes. do you think that slotting of players elevates raffl as a "more important or otherwise better than" winger than jvr to the team?

I think perhaps he had hopes of getting Stastny for two years. I think Nash may have been viewed as a sideways move. Stastny is older then Nash I believe. Think they would pay more for a 2 year deal. Clear him off before cap hell sets in.
- jaws1955

all things considered i think stastny ended up signing one of the more reasonable deals of the offseason for what its worth.

Yeah I think you’re describing pretty much what I mean. Right now you guys definitely have a hole at center behind Patrick. Hextall has done a tremendous job at clearing the dead wood and setting the table with flexibility and assets. At some point though a decision must be made if they want to try to take the next step while giroux and voracek are still front line players or not. I think the jvr signing shows that Hextall is moving the gears towards the present, but they are still that one center away from having the lineup that can go top to bottom. I don’t know what Hextall really could have done though, the player wasn’t necessarily there to find. Maybe Riley Nash, I thought that was a pretty reasonable deal. But then again, Nash probably doesn’t turn a team to cup contender, and if Hextall thinks that position will be filled internally with a guy like frost in the next year or two, maybe he didn’t want to block the path.
- stayinthefnnet

3C was what I thought to be their biggest need this off season. I guess giving Laughton a shot isn't the worst idea. It seems like every year Laughton has to prove something.

i meant more as far of importance to team. just because lethera is a poor allocation of assets doesnt mean that cap space is irrelevant in determining a players overall worth as an asset to the franchise, his just happens to be a negative one, especially when that factor is considered.

my point being, say at some stretch of the season raffl finds his way onto the first while JVR is on the third at even strength in order to bring some scoring to that line. raffl costing sub mill or whatever, JVR costing his seven. JVR getting special teams minutes. do you think that slotting of players elevates raffl as a "more important or otherwise better than" winger than jvr to the team?
- stayinthefnnet

Yeah, Rafl is the guy that screws up my whole premise a bit. No, he is not a better player than JVR, probably not better than Lindblom now. All this is indicative of is the fact that the Flyers are short of enough quality players. I'm waiting for Rafl to be the 4Lw all year. That means 3 lines are clicking and the 4th line will be that much better for his presence there, as it was with the "Honey Bees". But when the right time comes, I hope the line slottings fall more equally. I hope that no one is playing behind a lesser player to help balance the lines. If JVR turns out to play 3LW. I want the reason to be that someone beat him out. I wanted Lindblom in that spot on the second line. But now it is JVR. A line of Lindblom, Laughton and Simmer could be effective. The first two lines get the tough checking. It will be a little like Coots in the playoffs. Nobody to check them. Next year several more drop off the roster and more room for kids. You have Frost, Ratcliff and Strome turning pro. Maybe a couple of college guys turn pro. It's going to be interesting this year

all things considered i think stastny ended up signing one of the more reasonable deals of the offseason for what its worth.
- stayinthefnnet

He got a nice contract, got 3 years and perhaps didn't want to play on the east coast as he has always played in the western conference.

Why has the anti vaxxer been allowed to spew their drivel uncontested? This isn’t a topic where there are fundamental differences in opinion, there is either right or wrong. Vaccines save lives.

Like flat earthers they should be tarred and feathered.
- StepfordSam

you want autistic kids shooting up schools?

you want autistic kids shooting up schools?
- 2Real

Stop

Well my man, that's where we differ. In the 30 years that I played hockey, (how many years did you play again?) Never once was I considered a first line player, if I was on the second line. Why, because if I was on the second line it meant there was a better option on the first line.
YES, ON THE PENGUINS, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, HE IS THE 2C.
You can spin points however you want. Can he be the 1c? Not if Crosby is playing in that game. He has done it in the past when Sid was out. But in the games when both play, Crosby is the better player, better option and therefore the 1c. That makes Malkin the 2c. BTW, I don't think there is a team in the league other than the Pens, where he is not the best center on the team, ok, Oilers too.
I like Mathews a lot. I've seen Barkov a lot in person.. But Sid, Malkin, McDavid and Mathews may be in the top 5. It's a real small list of players better than Malkin.
- jaws1955

In Toronto, both Matthews and Taveras are first line NHL centers regardless of which number is assigned to their line. Who is responsible for assigning which line is which?

Can’t wait to have that explanation for jack Johnson shoved down my throat this year. Ugh.
- stayinthefnnet

Ultimately what matters? I think the level of vitriol that is already been cast on a player that has yet to play a game for the team is pretty silly.

If Brayden Schenn were a center on the Flyers, he'd be the 4th best center on the team.
- johndewar

Brayden a Schenn just had a career year as the Blues first line center...

No, not really. Just backing up my opinion based on personal experience. I understand his point. I just disagree in that context.
But actually, yeah. Everyone has an opinion. You can either base your opinion on stuff that you read that someone else gathered or you mimic someone else's opinion. The other way is to base it on actual experience.
When I want my car worked on I take to a shop with EXPERIENCED personnel not just people who have read about working on cars. I feel that the opinions of people who have actually done something tends to be both more accurate and therefore more credible.
- jaws1955

When prospects are rated and an analysis is given on their career potential and say a player has first line center potential, what does that mean?

When Michael Raffl is moved up at times to play on the top line such as he has in the past, is he now no longer the 3rd line NHL winger that he actually is and is now a first line NHL winger?

First line center refers to the players ability and skill level. That doesn't change whether the player is centering a line labeled line 1 or line 3.

Brayden a Schenn just had a career year as the Blues first line center...
- SuperSchennBros

he wouldnt be playing with Jaden Schwartz on the Flyers

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Ratcliffe looks like a surefire 1st-round pick in those highlights. That kid is GOOD. Dang! We got ourselves a great player here fellas.