His points per game went from .5696 to .5616. Normal variance.

You can't point out that he had more O-Zone starts then bash him for not blocking shots.

The whole team went in the tank with +/-. They went from -32 in 16-17 to -80! last year. -25 is also not 5 times -9. His +/- went down the same amount ~2.5 times that the team's did.

His giveaways were at a career low given ice time.

As far as "organic improvement" goes. Yes he did improve, everyone else around him fell apart. Everything is relative. It's not like a baseball player and his batting average. He's inextricably linked to his teammates.

None of that is "regression".
- Wetbandit1

Wonderful thing about stars, you can make a case for anything.
While his giveaways improved, his takeaways were at a 3 year low.
His coaches covered his ass, and some of his stats improved, while some declined.
I'm not a big believer in +/-, but when you see a 3x change, it raises eyebrows.

Like I said before, I would expect more in year 5. It feels like it is year 2 with him.

You believe what you want, I'll do the same.
Peace.

45 to 54 is 9pts, and 20% from the baseline of 45....not 15% from 54.
His coaches covered his ass, plain and simple.
He is a 2nd pairing, not a #1...as soon as he is utilized correctly against lesser quality of opponent his stats will take another jump....but us that really classified as his game improved.
Nope, didn't think so either.

I rest my case.
- IonSabres

You can't have it both ways. His ozone starts increased, and so did his CF% when he was used better.

His career low CF was 40% when his Ozone starts were 44%

His career high was this year at 51% with 54% ozone starts.

So he has improved slightly, despite the team overall regressing.

Wonderful thing about stars, you can make a case for anything.
While his giveaways improved, his takeaways were at a 3 year low.
His coaches covered his ass, and some of his stats improved, while some declined.
I'm not a big believer in +/-, but when you see a 3x change, it raises eyebrows.

Like I said before, I would expect more in year 5. It feels like it is year 2 with him.

You believe what you want, I'll do the same.
Peace.
- IonSabres

Which also makes perfect sense if he's starting in the O-Zone that much more often.

A, less than, 3 times change when the team also had a, less than, 3 times change is irrelevant! It raises eyebrows only if you don't look at anything else.

Have fun on your trip to Gerbe Island.

Yawn. My point was reinhart will make more than wilson. But keep twisting to cover your great evaluation on tom wilson.
- Mentalorgasm5

Not sure if that's how it went down.

I think I was discussing tom wilson with someone else.

You jumped in and told me you wish " this wasn't the internet" and you could win money off of stupid people on here.

I think tom wilson should get more money then sam. It will probably be really close if sam is paid more.

You then proclaimed, "sam is gonna get 5 million and tom wilson 3.5 million. "

I quickly figured your evaluation at 30% less for sam

Then you said if that happens " there are always dumb gms out there"

Covering your back, incase wilson gets more then sam: it's because some GMs are dumb.

Even though he just won the Stanley cup as gm

I'm beyond ready to move on.

It was an opinion. That you disagreed with

The LD/RD argument is silly.

If Ristolainen was a LD he’d potentially be our 3rd best one.

Being the “best” RD is not a reason to not trade him for a better player

The LD/RD argument is silly.

If Ristolainen was a LD he’d potentially be our 3rd best one.

Being the “best” RD is not a reason to not trade him for a better player
- sbroads24

If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bicycle

Ristolainen is the exact same player he was 2 years ago.

A second pairing D man

You can't have it both ways. His ozone starts increased, and so did his CF% when he was used better.

His career low CF was 40% when his Ozone starts were 44%

His career high was this year at 51% with 54% ozone starts.

So he has improved slightly, despite the team overall regressing.
- jcragcrumple

See, I don't think I'm having it both ways.
His Corsi improved because he got 20% more Oz starts...good for him, but to say that represents improvement in his game, rather than an improvement engineered by the coaches by putting him in favorable conditions is just crazy in my mind.

Imo, improving his game would be seeing his Corsi improve whiled his Oz/Dz starts remained the same year over year...that is improving.

See, I don't think I'm having it both ways.
His Corsi improved because he got 20% more Oz starts...good for him, but to say that represents improvement in his game, rather than an improvement engineered by the coaches by putting him in favorable conditions is just crazy in my mind.

Imo, improving his game would be seeing his Corsi improve whiled his Oz/Dz starts remained the same year over year...that is improving.
- IonSabres

Despite popular belief, I don’t hate Ristolainen.

But he hasn’t improved. Not in any significant way.

Ristolainen is the exact same player he was 2 years ago.

A second pairing D man
- sbroads24

Risto is a 3 on maybe 6-8 teams in the nhl.

Which also makes perfect sense if he's starting in the O-Zone that much more often.

A, less than, 3 times change when the team also had a, less than, 3 times change is irrelevant! It raises eyebrows only if you don't look at anything else.

Have fun on your trip to Gerbe Island.
- Wetbandit1

Man, you do have a sharp, hitting persona on here.
It was a discussion.
The stats simply don't support your case...
Big man with "I hang up and listen"
Then presented with an opposing fact based discuss you get nasty.

See, I don't think I'm having it both ways.
His Corsi improved because he got 20% more Oz starts...good for him, but to say that represents improvement in his game, rather than an improvement engineered by the coaches by putting him in favorable conditions is just crazy in my mind.

Imo, improving his game would be seeing his Corsi improve whiled his Oz/Dz starts remained the same year over year...that is improving.
- IonSabres

His corsi improved as a percentage of his ozone starts. It was a slight improvement, but it was an improvement. The bottom six is better now. He isn't passing to Nolan, griffith, Criscuolo, Josefson, Moulson (hopefully larsson and Girgensons). Let's see what he can do with real players

Risto is a 3 on maybe 6-8 teams in the nhl.
- Boss34

He’s a #5 on a few too

His corsi improved as a percentage of his ozone starts. It was a slight improvement, but it was an improvement. The bottom six is better now. He isn't passing to Nolan, griffith, Criscuolo, Josefson, Moulson (hopefully larsson and Girgensons). Let's see what he can do with real players
- jcragcrumple

Like the majority of his ice time that’s spent with our two elite #1 centers?

Have fun on your trip to Gerbe Island.
- Wetbandit1

I hear it comes with a complimentary douche-bag to take all your opinions back home with you!
....Some people might need two.

Risto again................

He’s a #5 on a few too
- sbroads24

His corsi improved as a percentage of his ozone starts. It was a slight improvement, but it was an improvement. The bottom six is better now. He isn't passing to Nolan, griffith, Criscuolo, Josefson, Moulson (hopefully larsson and Girgensons). Let's see what he can do with real players
- jcragcrumple

It will improve, because similar to a coach sheltering a player with favorable situations, better players will improve his metrics due to being in an improved environment.

As soon As he gets in the 2nd pairing where he belongs, we will see his metrics take another leap.

I can take him or leave him.

Like the majority of his ice time that’s spent with our two elite #1 centers?
- sbroads24

Sure, one of whom you consider severely overrated, unless it benefits your point concerning risto

Risto again................
- SABRES 89

Feel free to introduce a new exciting topic.

Risto again................
- SABRES 89

It's July....which is basically August.

Sure, one of whom you consider severely overrated, unless it benefits your point concerning risto
- jcragcrumple

I’m combating your point.

You meantioned Kyle Criscolo

Ristolainen spent......8 minutes on the ice with him. 8

29 with Moulson

It's July....which is basically August.
- seedy

HUGE if true..

Feel free to introduce a new exciting topic.
- IonSabres

Waste of time on this site.

HUGE if true..
- feetontheair22

it's like E5-million or something.