Very capable. I'm confident we can beat Tampa as both lineups sit right now.

Also what makes me laugh is people saying we wont hst past the first round against Tampa. I have the leafs and Tampa finishing 1 and 2 in the East. I dont think the leafs will see Tampa in the first round anytime soon. Just my opinion
- matthewsscores

I think it would be close, and would probably have it as a coin toss at this point. But by definition, that's competing. This narrative that we can't even compete is just laughable.

We have better goaltending, they have better D. Up front I would give our offence the edge with more dynamic wing players and the deepest C depth in the NHL.

karlsson has been better in the stats department than gardiner for pretty much every season of his career. end of story.
- The Deal Man

Yes that's understandable however paying EK $11M for what he brings is not a necessity for this team and it will handicap us

I'd rather sign a solid defensive D if and when they become available. Gardner puts up decent numbers and we have Reilly

I think it would be close, and would probably have it as a coin toss at this point. But by definition, that's competing. This narrative that we can't even compete is just laughable.

We have better goaltending, they have better D. Up front I would give our offence the edge with more dynamic wing players and the deepest C depth in the NHL.
- Pen15

Our offence is definitely better and I believe second to none now. Matching up against us will be a nightmare. Even if you contain lines 1 and 2....third line can score in bunches

karlsson has been better in the stats department than gardiner for pretty much every season of his career. end of story.
- The Deal Man

I never said that Gardiner was better or on par with Karlsson. Just said that statistically over the past year the difference wasn't big. That's FACT.

I also said you'd be paying $10MM+ AAV for a guy that will give you 10 more points than Gardiner. That is also FACT.

Maybe read the posts a few times before responding.

End of story.

Our offence is definitely better and I believe second to none now. Matching up against us will be a nightmare. Even if you contain lines 1 and 2....third line can score in bunches
- matthewsscores

Agreed. As it stands, our top 3 C can potentially put up 30+ goals next year. I'm curious how many times that's happened in NHL history.

Yes that's understandable however paying EK $11M for what he brings is not a necessity for this team and it will handicap us

I'd rather sign a solid defensive D if and when they become available. Gardner puts up decent numbers and we have Reilly
- matthewsscores

We can't have Karlsson. End of discussion. Gardiner does not compare to Karlsson. End of discussion. Gardiner is an extremely good defeneceman(sorry haters) end of discussion.

After this season I'd try to resign Gards for $5.5 but if he has another year like last year he could command $7 on the open market if he played hardball. $6-$6.5 would be a reasonable range, but I'm hoping for a hometown discount just like Rielly, Kadri, Brown, Hyman, Tavares, etc.

We can't have Karlsson. End of discussion. Gardiner does not compare to Karlsson. End of discussion. Gardiner is an extremely good defeneceman(sorry haters) end of discussion.

After this season I'd try to resign Gards for $5.5 but if he has another year like last year he could command $7 on the open market if he played hardball. $6-$6.5 would be a reasonable range, but I'm hoping for a hometown discount just like Rielly, Kadri, Brown, Hyman, Tavares, etc.
- Njuice

Couldn't agree more. Cue the UG rebuttle

We can't have Karlsson. End of discussion. Gardiner does not compare to Karlsson. End of discussion. Gardiner is an extremely good defeneceman(sorry haters) end of discussion.

After this season I'd try to resign Gards for $5.5 but if he has another year like last year he could command $7 on the open market if he played hardball. $6-$6.5 would be a reasonable range, but I'm hoping for a hometown discount just like Rielly, Kadri, Brown, Hyman, Tavares, etc.
- Njuice

It's these sort of statements that hype guys beyond the realm of criticism. While I agree with the rest of this post, statistically, last year Karlsson is very comparable to Gardiner. Now if we're talking about pedigree and what both have achieved over the course of their career, there's no discussion. But based on the most recent season, it's very fair to compare them. We are talking about a sport that's judged based on results afterall.

Yes that's understandable however paying EK $11M for what he brings is not a necessity for this team and it will handicap us

I'd rather sign a solid defensive D if and when they become available. Gardner puts up decent numbers and we have Reilly
- matthewsscores

karlsson is a right handed defenseman capable of point per game production. he would be a huge upgrade on zaitsev hainsey or carrick on the right and gardiner on the left. paired with rielly would be a great 1-2 and then you could shore up the defense from 3-6 with more defensive defensemen.

have you gone mad?

rielly-karlsson
dermott-zaitsev
borgman or rosen-hainsey
(marincin, carrick, holl, borgman or rosen)

or move some of these other offensive defensemen for more well rounded cost effective nhl defensemen.

For the knobs (UG) suggesting Karlsson to the Leafs in exchage for Nylander +++

I hope you (UG) realize that statistically Karlsson is just a step above Gardiner. About 10 points more offence total with 17% more ice time. Perhaps worse in the defensive zone than Gardiner - and that's saying a lot.

Forget about the fact that Dubas is on record as saying the young core (of which Nylander is a part of) isn't going anywhere; if you were to trade him for a Dman it would make a hell of a lot more sense to trade him for a guy that knows how to play in his own zone.

And just to put a cherry on top of this incredible nonsense, I wonder what the cap situation will look like when you have 3 guys making $+10MM AAV and one other (Marner) close to it in a year.
- Pen15

not anywhere in here were you referring to just last season.

Yes I am. In a world of stats, you can technically compare any two players.
Sometimes differences are vast, sometimes not so much. In this case, only 10pts separates Karlsson from Gardiner. All the while one saw 17% more ice time and was a -25. In terms of hits and shots they're virtually identical.

Use the emoticons all you like, numbers don't lie. Landing Karlsson will cost you (outside of the assets you'd have to trade), $10MM AAV for a delta of 10pts. You can try to position it with some bullsh!t "but I've seen him play and my perception is more accurate" but the numbers speak for themselves.
- Pen15

not in here either.

not anywhere in here were you referring to just last season.
- The Deal Man

Why are you being a troll dude? If you cared enough to look up the stats I quoted you’d clearly see the year I’m referring to. Don’t be butt hurt just because facts don’t agree with you.

not in here either.
- The Deal Man

Look up the stats I quoted you clown. What year are they associated with? (frank) it’s dummies like this that give this fan base the bad name it has.

Why are you being a troll dude? If you cared enough to look up the stats I quoted you’d clearly see the year I’m referring to. Don’t be butt hurt just because facts don’t agree with you.
- Pen15

are you for real?

It's these sort of statements that hype guys beyond the realm of criticism. While I agree with the rest of this post, statistically, last year Karlsson is very comparable to Gardiner. Now if we're talking about pedigree and what both have achieved over the course of their career, there's no discussion. But based on the most recent season, it's very fair to compare them. We are talking about a sport that's judged based on results afterall.
- Pen15

I think the gap has narrowed this year, and that may be a trend, given his ankle/injury history.

But he's a generational talent, Gardiner not so much, so there's that.

Now whether you subtract Gardiner and add Karlsson, I think we're a better team after that move, but not to the degree that we'd require to put ourselves into that kind of a cap predicament long-term.

Look up the stats I quoted you clown. What year are they associated with? (frank) it’s dummies like this that give this fan base the bad name it has.
- Pen15

are you looking in a mirror when typing this out?

are you for real?
- The Deal Man

Did you look up the stats I quoted? What year are they associated with?

Did you look up the stats I quoted? What year are they associated with?
- Pen15

I think the gap has narrowed this year, and that may be a trend, given his ankle/injury history.

But he's a generational talent, Gardiner not so much, so there's that.

Now whether you subtract Gardiner and add Karlsson, I think we're a better team after that move, but not to the degree that we'd require to put ourselves into that kind of a cap predicament long-term.
- gravyface

I agree with all of this.

- The Deal Man

Care to quote the year for us? [/img]

karlsson is a right handed defenseman capable of point per game production. he would be a huge upgrade on zaitsev hainsey or carrick on the right and gardiner on the left. paired with rielly would be a great 1-2 and then you could shore up the defense from 3-6 with more defensive defensemen.

have you gone mad?

rielly-karlsson
dermott-zaitsev
borgman or rosen-hainsey
(marincin, carrick, holl, borgman or rosen)

or move some of these other offensive defensemen for more well rounded cost effective nhl defensemen.
- The Deal Man

We can't afford Karlsson. Not many teams can. He'd absolutely look great on the right side with Rielly, but we'd have to move one of the kids and that's not happening.

Yes I am. In a world of stats, you can technically compare any two players.
Sometimes differences are vast, sometimes not so much. In this case, only 10pts separates Karlsson from Gardiner. All the while one saw 17% more ice time and was a -25. In terms of hits and shots they're virtually identical.

Use the emoticons all you like, numbers don't lie. Landing Karlsson will cost you (outside of the assets you'd have to trade), $10MM AAV for a delta of 10pts. You can try to position it with some bullsh!t "but I've seen him play and my perception is more accurate" but the numbers speak for themselves.
- Pen15

Ek lined up against Rielly and Hainseys comp, you can compare if you want but they aren’t really the same. I’d love to have seen Jake in EK’s spot on the same team....I doubt you’d be comparing.

Jakes #’s get better as we surround him with better players, he doesn’t make players better from the #’s I’ve peeked at.

If we could afford EK I’d want to keep Jake too ( I’m greedy )it’s not going to happen or do I care.

What in the world of all (frank)ery is going on in here?

What in the world of all (frank)ery is going on in here?
- walshyleafsfan

Sunstroke + dehydration caused by alcohol

Ek lined up against Rielly and Hainseys comp, you can compare if you want but they aren’t really the same. I’d love to have seen Jake in EK’s spot on the same team....I doubt you’d be comparing.

Jakes #’s get better as we surround him with better players, he doesn’t make players better from the #’s I’ve peeked at.
- Garnie

I may be in the minority but I'd rather Gardiner at 6 then Karlsson at 11. Ive watched both play alot. Karlsson may be better offensively but his defensive play is IMO far worse to justify a 5 mill diff.