I think the gap has narrowed this year, and that may be a trend, given his ankle/injury history.

But he's a generational talent, Gardiner not so much, so there's that.

Now whether you subtract Gardiner and add Karlsson, I think we're a better team after that move, but not to the degree that we'd require to put ourselves into that kind of a cap predicament long-term.
- gravyface

I don't think he is at all.

Maybe if he could actually play defense, yeah. But he can't and he never has.

He's still the best rover in hockey and no one is close to him in that sense.

What in the world of all (frank)ery is going on in here?
- walshyleafsfan

Something... not sure what?

We can't afford Karlsson. Not many teams can. He'd absolutely look great on the right side with Rielly, but we'd have to move one of the kids and that's not happening.
- gravyface

the proposed deal was nylander zaitsev liljegren and 1st for karlsson by tumblepothead. to which i replied they can have all that if douchene and ceci are coming with karlsson. that is a deal i would be okay with.

this other guy is trying to argue gardiner being comparable to karlsson and then backtracking to say he only meant last season's stats. which is 100% asinine no matter what season he wants to reference.

gardiner needs to be traded now, because there is no way i would ever even entertain the idea of re-signing gardiner long term with any sort of significant cap hit increase.

Sunstroke + dehydration caused by alcohol
- mr.sir

the worst.

I think the gap has narrowed this year, and that may be a trend, given his ankle/injury history.

But he's a generational talent, Gardiner not so much, so there's that.

Now whether you subtract Gardiner and add Karlsson, I think we're a better team after that move, but not to the degree that we'd require to put ourselves into that kind of a cap predicament long-term.
- gravyface

...

I may be in the minority but I'd rather Gardiner at 6 then Karlsson at 11. Ive watched both play alot. Karlsson may be better offensively but his defensive play is IMO far worse to justify a 5 mill diff.
- Buck Norris

you didn't have to switch accounts to support yourself pen15.

I don't think he is at all.

Maybe if he could actually play defense, yeah. But he can't and he never has.

He's still the best rover in hockey and no one is close to him in that sense.
- GreatGigInTheSky

+1

I don't think he is at all.

Maybe if he could actually play defense, yeah. But he can't and he never has.

He's still the best rover in hockey and no one is close to him in that sense.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Respectfully disagree. He's a PPG defenseman who's played his whole career on pretty pooptastic teams. Nobody's close to that, not even Doughty.

Casual Mats
‏ @Casual_Mats
2h2 hours ago

After locking down their Johnsson all that's left for the Leafs now is to secure their Willy.

Respectfully disagree. He's a PPG defenseman who's played his whole career on pretty pooptastic teams. Nobody's close to that, not even Doughty.
- gravyface

the last 13 years of nhl hockey stats gets an asterisk in the record books imo.

Care to quote the year for us?
- Pen15[/img]

Here are two Dmens stats (16/17). Tell me who's better. It's the same set of information you used to come up with your Gardiner is closer than we think to Karlsson statement.


player 1
82GP 9G 34A 43 Points +24 21:32 TOI/Game
Player 2
82GP 12G 32A 44 Points +8 27:09 TOI/Game

Casual Mats
‏ @Casual_Mats
2h2 hours ago

After locking down their Johnsson all that's left for the Leafs now is to secure their Willy.

- gravyface

That’s funny.

I may be in the minority but I'd rather Gardiner at 6 then Karlsson at 11. Ive watched both play alot. Karlsson may be better offensively but his defensive play is IMO far worse to justify a 5 mill diff.
- Buck Norris

I'm with ya. I'd rather have Gardiner and 1-2 other good dmen than Karlsson. We already have ourselves hitched to 4 other stars.

Respectfully disagree. He's a PPG defenseman who's played his whole career on pretty pooptastic teams. Nobody's close to that, not even Doughty.
- gravyface

And I disrespectfully disagree with your disagreement.

I may be in the minority but I'd rather Gardiner at 6 then Karlsson at 11. Ive watched both play alot. Karlsson may be better offensively but his defensive play is IMO far worse to justify a 5 mill diff.
- Buck Norris

Absolutely. In Leaf land there is a lot of Gardiner hate, and Karlsson is clearly much better than Gardiner, but for roughly twice the price I'd keep Gards for sure.

Nice to see more than one(more than three) fans in this thread are willing to give Gardiner the respect he deserves. In the last few years the "super visible defensive miscues" have gone down drastically and the offensive production has gone up. We can't afford Karlsson and as I said earlier, I'm HOPING for Gards at $5.5 but I realize on the open market he could get $7 - so my hope is a stretch.

$6mil Gardiner on a 5 or 6 year deal would be good for us.

And I disrespectfully disagree with your disagreement.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Casual Mats
‏ @Casual_Mats
2h2 hours ago

After locking down their Johnsson all that's left for the Leafs now is to secure their Willy.

- gravyface

NICELY DONE SON! TWO SCHLONGS UP!

the proposed deal was nylander zaitsev liljegren and 1st for karlsson by tumblepothead. to which i replied they can have all that if douchene and ceci are coming with karlsson. that is a deal i would be okay with.

this other guy is trying to argue gardiner being comparable to karlsson and then backtracking to say he only meant last season's stats. which is 100% asinine no matter what season he wants to reference.

gardiner needs to be traded now, because there is no way i would ever even entertain the idea of re-signing gardiner long term with any sort of significant cap hit increase.
- The Deal Man

I would not even trade Nylander for Karlsson straight up. Yes, our window is open now...but it will be open for a decade....

EK65.... Meh

aliens

I would not even trade Nylander for Karlsson straight up. Yes, our window is open now...but it will be open for a decade....
- Njuice

Rielly, Gardiner, and Dermott all did a good job with the breakout last year. Obviously Gardiner telegraphed more stretch passes than the others, and I also think he missed more stretch passes than the others (he had 185 Icings against when on the ice, which was the most of all D, compared to 146 for Rielly, who was second). I'm not sure if looking at that stat as an indicator of failed stretch passes is fair, but that's how *I'm* using it for the purposes of this illustration.

I think everyone would prefer controlled zone entries, so the stretch pass starts that from the back-end well, but to be honest, it's the same crap that the Leafs did under Carlyle that backfired when they were less talented.

At least with Rielly, Gardiner, and Dermott (and hopefully Z next year), they can skate, which gives them options. Even Carrick isn't too bad at it.

Hainsey is probably the biggest detriment to being a catalyst for the offense. His breakout passes are mediocre at best, and he has virtually no ability to skate the puck out.
- Monkeypunk

Quoting this from the last blog.

Where do ppl find stats like that? Icing's and what not. Lol

aliens
- plantheparade

definitely..

I may be in the minority but I'd rather Gardiner at 6 then Karlsson at 11. Ive watched both play alot. Karlsson may be better offensively but his defensive play is IMO far worse to justify a 5 mill diff.
- Buck Norris

I definitely agree.

The same reasons people chirp at Gardiner for, Karlsson would do the exact same things that would be just as frustrating to watch at times. And for twice the price. Hard pass.

Here are two Dmens stats (16/17). Tell me who's better. It's the same set of information you used to come up with your Gardiner is closer than we think to Karlsson statement.


player 1
82GP 9G 34A 43 Points +24 21:32 TOI/Game
Player 2
82GP 12G 32A 44 Points +8 27:09 TOI/Game
- lonnyBohonos

C'mon, I wanna know the answer! WHO IS PLAYER ONE WHAT IS PLAYER TWO I DON'T KNOW IS PLAYER THREE AM I RIGHT