They're not the better team right now, the forwards might be close but Tampa Bay's defense and goaltending are significantly better. If they add Karlsson, Tampa Bay runs away with the Atlantic and maybe even the East.

Acquiring Karlsson makes the Leafs better but it also prevents Tampa Bay from getting better. That's like a 4 point game in offseason terms.
- Unholy_Goalie

Vasilevskiy is not significantly better than Andersen..Shut up with that already. He may have a slight edge and that's mainly due to the fact he has better defense in front of him.

To a fanbase that has been kicked in the nuts as much as it has...I can not see them trading him to the Leafs. That would be the ultimate kick in the nuts to Sens fans.
- Santo_44

But if the deal is better for them and keeps them out of a lottery pick, that's the rock and a hard place they might be forced into. Can Tampa Bay or Dallas offer a better deal than Nylander, Gardiner and a 1st? I don't think so. If anything, you're almost forcing Tampa Bay to overpay to get back into the discussion.

Melnyk doesn't give a (frank) about the fans anymore. He's pinching his pennies and thinking about Houston. Or Quebec.

Sounds like old-school Leafs management, chasing fools gold.
- Aetherial

If the Leafs had nothing else to add Karlsson to (like the Kessel deal), yes. But they have a very good core of players, even if they trade Nylander to get him.

They were on the ice for 91 goals against, combined. Considering how much they played together, a lot of those would have been double counted.

I'm just saying, the defense needs to be improved. Hainsey was poop for the second half of the season and he's done after this year. Gardiner is a pending UFA and you either overpay him to stay or he walks for nothing like JVR. Carrick isn't anything special. Rielly is the only top pairing D they have and even he makes almost as many mistakes as Gardiner defensively. Adding Karlsson gives the Leafs a guy who is not only a two-time Norris winner and a RHD but also controls the game from the blueline who can play 20-25 minutes and dominate a game.
- Unholy_Goalie

It's not double counted, that's what we're scored when they were on the ice together, and that's a lot considering the ice time.

Vasilevskiy is not significantly better than Andersen..Shut up with that already. He may have a slight edge and that's mainly due to the fact he has better defense in front of him.
- LeafGuy89

Yes he is. Vasilevskiy is better than Andersen.

But if the deal is better for them and keeps them out of a lottery pick, that's the rock and a hard place they might be forced into. Can Tampa Bay or Dallas offer a better deal than Nylander, Gardiner and a 1st? I don't think so. If anything, you're almost forcing Tampa Bay to overpay to get back into the discussion.

Melnyk doesn't give a (frank) about the fans anymore. He's pinching his pennies and thinking about Houston. Or Quebec.
- Unholy_Goalie

I think if any of those three teams pay even close to that package is losing.

Sign him as a UFA, and if a team overpays then let them.

Laugh because they traded Point and Sergachev.
- Steven_Seagull

Not enough....

Vasilevskiy is not significantly better than Andersen..Shut up with that already. He may have a slight edge and that's mainly due to the fact he has better defense in front of him.
- LeafGuy89

Leafs don’t need, or can afford Karlsson. Pass.
- Steven_Seagull

Karlsson would be a great addition here, but I agree with you. It's not a need;

We do need to upgrade the right side, but maybe someone like Brett Pesce, Tyler Myers or heck even Torey Krug would be a better fit here

Small sample size. Irrelevant.
- Steven_Seagull

Don't talk about Uggy's Pen15 like that!

It's not double counted, that's what we're scored when they were on the ice together, and that's a lot considering the ice time.
- bobbyisno1

Some of them could be because if they're on the ice together and a goal was scored against them, they'd each get one each which would be a total of two even though only one goal was scored against.

Trading for him would be a disaster IMO.

Signing him next year as a FA would be dicey. The price in who you have to let walk would be tough.
- Aetherial

Yep. I don't see him being traded.

He will be traded at the TDL when there are teams hungry for a cup. At this point the Sens are dealing from a position of weakness

1 Norris, two Stanley Cups, better defensive player, Conn Smythe candidate.

It's cute to leave out more than half the poop Doughty's won though.
- Unholy_Goalie

I'm not saying Doughty isn't better. I'm just using your definition.

- Scabeh

Hedman alone is better than the Leafs top 6 D.

So, it's not a fair comparison.

I think if any of those three teams pay even close to that package is losing.

Sign him as a UFA, and if a team overpays then let them.
- Santo_44

He won't make it to UFA. Ottawa needs to get something for him and any team that acquires him will give him an extension.

Also, even if he did become a UFA, the Leafs couldn't afford to sign him if they still had Nylander on the team considering what his extension would be.

Leafs playoff GAA: 4.00

Lightning playoff GAA: 2.82

When it mattered, Leafs defense and goaltending wasn't there, giving up 35 shots per game average.

In the past 10 years, no center was on the ice for more goals against than Tavares last year at 114.
- Unholy_Goalie

He played with 2 wingers who were awful at backchecking, their defense was the worst in the league statistically, and their goaltending was also the worst in the league. Of course that'll hurt his numbers. The guy can't do it all himself.

I'd love to see how many he is on for this upcoming season. I bet it's significantly less.

If the Leafs had nothing else to add Karlsson to (like the Kessel deal), yes. But they have a very good core of players, even if they trade Nylander to get him.
- Unholy_Goalie

old-school Leafs thinking.

2 years from now, Nylander is in his prime and a 1st line winder somewhere. Karlsson has another injury and is a shadow of his prime for 5 more years. His contract prevents the team from re-signing Kadri, or improving the rest of the D. All this happens smack dab in the middle of Matthews' and Marner's best years and during the last part of Tavares' prime.

You think all that isn't possible? He is rut in the ice or one shot off that ankle away from (frank)ing the next team for his entire contract.

I'm not saying Doughty isn't better. I'm just using your definition.
- Pen15

So now you're saying Doughty is better but Karlsson should get the same money as the player that's better than him even though I calculated he'd only get 500K less than him and even had enough cap space left over to give him 11M if it was absolutely necessary.

Log into your other account and agree with yourself now.

No, I didn't.

I said every Norris winner has won a Cup or gone to the Finals in the past 30 years and every multi-time Norris winner has won the Cup.

This is to suggest that Karlsson's odds, based on history, are very strong to make his future team a contender.

That is completely different than saying a team must have a Norris winner to win the Cup.

It's not even (frank)ing close to the same thing.
- Unholy_Goalie

So you're saying EK would immediately make a contender?

He played with 2 wingers who were awful at backchecking, their defense was the worst in the league statistically, and their goaltending was also the worst in the league. Of course that'll hurt his numbers. The guy can't do it all himself.

I'd love to see how many he is on for this upcoming season. I bet it's significantly less.
- LeafGuy89

I'm not doubting any of that but the fact remains, he was on the ice for 114 goals against. It will be lower than that on the Leafs but Tavares isn't good enough defensively to make up for the weakness on the blueline. It's just a different position and an area of need.

Laugh because they traded Point and Sergachev.
- Steven_Seagull

Yeah. That's a win for Ottawa if they get those guys.

Sucks for Point and Sergachev, though.

old-school Leafs thinking.

2 years from now, Nylander is in his prime and a 1st line winder somewhere. Karlsson has another injury and is a shadow of his prime for 5 more years. His contract prevents the team from re-signing Kadri, or improving the rest of the D. All this happens smack dab in the middle of Matthews' and Marner's best years and during the last part of Tavares' prime.

You think all that isn't possible? He is rut in the ice or one shot off that ankle away from (frank)ing the next team for his entire contract.
- Aetherial

It's entirely possible, but if you could somehow get Karlsson, even for one season, without giving up Nylander/Matthews/Marner.. Would you do it?

I saw you say on another thread that nobody has compared Gardiner to Karlsson.

That guy has.
- Unholy_Goalie

That guy compared them in context to what they would cost. Try to keep up Nikki.

old-school Leafs thinking.

2 years from now, Nylander is in his prime and a 1st line winder somewhere. Karlsson has another injury and is a shadow of his prime for 5 more years. His contract prevents the team from re-signing Kadri, or improving the rest of the D. All this happens smack dab in the middle of Matthews' and Marner's best years and during the last part of Tavares' prime.

You think all that isn't possible? He is rut in the ice or one shot off that ankle away from (frank)ing the next team for his entire contract.
- Aetherial

Again, old school thinking was overpaying for 1 player and adding him to a pile of poop and expecting it to work out. The Leafs have plenty of other very good pieces to add to. It's not the same at all. It's simply shifting one area of strength to cover an area of weakness.

What if Nylander gets hit in the head and never plays again? It's so easy to just assume a player is going to get hurt and never play again, why does it have to be Karlsson and not Nylander?

Nylander's offense can be replaced by the other young stars they have and Tavares. What Karlsson brings to the table the Leafs simply do not have.

Yeah. That's a win for Ottawa if they get those guys.

Sucks for Point and Sergachev, though.
- GreatGigInTheSky

As great as Karlsson is, if Tampa have to give up Point, Sergachev and more for him..Then, I can't see Tampa winning the trade. Even if you take into consideration that the draft picks included, don't pan out.