honestly when he was given a shot with decent line mates he seemed ok


on the bottom 6, it's like he is a ghost
- homiedclown

Yeah, they are 5x as important.

My point is all 3 of them have been in the league 3-4 years and 240-400 games.

They all pretty much are what they are
- sbroads24

jan first on, reinhart was a top 25 scorer in the entire league


he may not have peaked yet

His early years were with that "no system" coach, the same guy that had Ennis playing his best years.
Since then he has been with heavy system coaches and his play reflects the difference.
He might justbe a terrific pond hockey guy where individual hustle is amplified, and not a guy who plays well in systems that depend on everyone on the ice playing a coordinated game.
Does that relate to low H-IQ?
Maybe.
- IonSabres

I want him to do well. I LOVED him his first year. But watch that highlight package. It's not just a different coach, it's a different level of commitment, and the fact that he played 10% fewer minutes this year and scored 50% fewer points bears that out. He has regressed, and he is a problem on this team, unless he can figure out how to produce 5-on-5 without Eichel. Which seems unlikely at best. He's not even a center anymore. I thought his floor was gonna be 3C. Now he looks like a 4LW or a extra forward

Huh?
Ppl diss Girgs all the time on here

I’m probably the nicest towards him...
and all I’ve said is that i think he could be a good 4th liner (if he’d accept that role)
- jdfitz77

The past page is nothing but people making excuses for him

even the Mexicans won't drink that crap
- homiedclown

It’s better than a Long Island !
Hahahaha

There’s 0 evidence any of the guys fighting for his job are better at this point. When they prove it, he won’t be here
- sbroads24

I've just had it with the "he is a bit player, it's not a problem"

He doesn't score goals. Our biggest problem is not scoring goals. He is a huge problem.

If your point is that he's only slightly worse than Pouliot making $1m, it's a bad point
- jcragcrumple

The point was that his relative production is closer to RoR than the much maligned Pouliot and Pominville. I don't choose to focus any anger at Z. He's fine on the bottom 6 until someone can replace him (defensively).

I want him to do well. I LOVED him his first year. But watch that highlight package. It's not just a different coach, it's a different level of commitment, and the fact that he played 10% fewer minutes this year and scored 50% fewer points bears that out. He has regressed, and he is a problem on this team, unless he can figure out how to produce 5-on-5 without Eichel. Which seems unlikely at best. He's not even a center anymore. I thought his floor was gonna be 3C. Now he looks like a 4LW or a extra forward
- jcragcrumple

Im done with him as well, was before last season to be honest.
That said, I think Larsson is moreof a problem on this team.
His locker cleanout day comments were pretty daning as much as ROR ... im more concerned with his impact on the new culture trying to be established.

Dump them both for whatever.

By this logic, you can only compare players from teams that are similar in the standings?


This is why using basic point totals is a faulty way of judging a player
- sbroads24

It’s also faulty to compare O’Reilly to Schieffle
ROR played with 1 good linemate for the 2nd half of last year
Schieffle played with Ehlers & Laine, or was it Wheeler & Connor?

Either way... you get my point
When u just use pts/60 and even strength pts (which are the 2 stats u most commonly quote) is doesn’t take into account MANY factors that go into production...
most notably:
Linemates & game situation

The point was that his relative production is closer to RoR than the much maligned Pouliot and Pominville. I don't choose to focus any anger at Z. He's fine on the bottom 6 until someone can replace him (defensively).
- Lunaion

I liked Pouliot fwiw. He had 1 or maybe 2 beautiful coast-to-coast goals this year.

Again, I just don't understand the excuses for ZG and why it isn't important that he doesn't produce. Erod produces on a similar contract.

It's absurd to me how much cover ZG gets for no discernable reason

- buffalofan19

The past page is nothing but people making excuses for him
- jcragcrumple

Not really
They’re just saying he’s not as bad as you’re saying

Im done with him as well, was before last season to be honest.
That said, I think Larsson is moreof a problem on this team.
His locker cleanout day comments were pretty daning as much as ROR ... im more concerned with his impact on the new culture trying to be established.

Dump them both for whatever.
- IonSabres

Yeah I agree 100%

I've just had it with the "he is a bit player, it's not a problem"

He doesn't score goals. Our biggest problem is not scoring goals. He is a huge problem
- jcragcrumple

Again, I don’t disagree on his lack of goal scoring prowess, but saying he’s a huge problem here is nuts.

He was 8th among forwards in 5 on 5 ice time, which is 3rd line numbers, and was tied for 9th in 5 on 5 points.

Again, if we are going to subscribe to this “being on a bad team effects everything” narrative that everyone doles out for the 7.5 mil center, or the former 2nd overall pick, then Girgensons would absolutely produce like a very good 4th liner, average 3rd liner on an adequate team.

Not really
They’re just saying he’s not as bad as you’re saying
- jdfitz77

All I've done is post stats to highlight his regression. I haven't compared him to anyone else, other than Pouliot who I agree is better.

I've just had it with the "he is a bit player, it's not a problem"

He doesn't score goals. Our biggest problem is not scoring goals. He is a huge problem.
- jcragcrumple

He’s a huge problem when he’s a winger for Eichel

No one is saying to keep him in the top6
Or even the top9

Again, I don’t disagree on his lack of goal scoring prowess, but saying he’s a huge problem here is nuts.

He was 8th among forwards in 5 on 5 ice time, which is 3rd line numbers, and was tied for 9th in 5 on 5 points.

Again, if we are going to subscribe to this “being on a bad team effects everything” narrative that everyone doles out for the 7.5 mil center, or the former 2nd overall pick, then Girgensons would absolutely produce like a very good 4th liner, average 3rd liner.
- sbroads24

That doesn't explain his regression, and it's still not a reason to keep him around

All I've done is post stats to highlight his regression. I haven't compared him to anyone else, other than Pouliot who I agree is better.
- jcragcrumple

I’m assuming if u made a lineup,
Girgs would slot in on line4

I’m also assuming that everyone else here would put him no higher than line4

The only difference is that ppl aren’t talking about him as harshly as you are

I liked Pouliot fwiw. He had 1 or maybe 2 beautiful coast-to-coast goals this year.

Again, I just don't understand the excuses for ZG and why it isn't important that he doesn't produce. Erod produces on a similar contract.

It's absurd to me how much cover ZG gets for no discernable reason
- jcragcrumple

because he's strong defensively and should be on the 4th line

He’s a huge problem when he’s a winger for Eichel

No one is saying to keep him in the top6
Or even the top9
- jdfitz77

I still haven't heard an argument for why we should do this at all

That doesn't explain his regression, and it's still not a reason to keep him around
- jcragcrumple

His regression is very simple. He doubled his career shooting % in 14-15.

That’s literally it

Because he plays 13 min a night and makes 900k.

He’s a blip on the radar.

He’s not why we were 31st
- sbroads24

C’mon. Reinhart catches poop all day every day because he doesn’t live up to expectations, but Girgs gets measured against minutes and pay?

He was selected 14th overall. He should be playing a far larger part of this team. He’s making more than Sam Reinhart and Girgensons pp$ is dwarfed by Reinhardt’s pp$.

He is butt.

I still haven't heard an argument for why we should do this at all
- jcragcrumple

Who on here has said they’d be upset if we traded him?

Just bc ppl don’t have your level of hate for him doesn’t mean they think Girgs is good or a key player for us

You’re going off the rails over nothing

C’mon. Reinhart catches poop all day every day because he doesn’t live up to expectations, but Girgs gets measured against minutes and pay?

He was selected 14th overall. He should be playing a far larger part of this team. He’s making more than Sam Reinhart and Girgensons pp$ is dwarfed by Reinhardt’s pp$.

He is butt.
- Der Kaiser

Girgensons is a 4th liner. If he never plays for the Sabres again no one should care.

He’s a bust of a 1st rounder.

The expectations of Girgensons this past season were pretty much what he produced. He isn’t why were 31st

Who on here has said they’d be upset if we traded him?

Just bc ppl don’t have your level of hate for him doesn’t mean they think Girgs is good or a key player for us

You’re going off the rails over nothing
- jdfitz77

I'm not going off the rails at all. I'm just asking why we should keep him. I don't hate him at all. I feel the same way about him that I felt about Matt Freakin Ellis. He's a placeholder forward. The only difference is that at one time, girgs held a ton a promise and has regressed.

I think it's totally fair to hold him to the standard of his draft position and rookie season. That's not a level of hate