Toews and Seabrook are names that comes to mind too.
- Thrill81

Toews & Kane contracts were really hard to believe. They signed a season before their existing contracts were up & before 2 new caps were announced so Stan had no idea what the cap hits would do to the team. There was no reason to do it except the news was going to give their fans some good news after the Hawks couldn't get anywhere near previous seasons. Terrible timing that was avoidable.

If they had of waited, would they have been different contracts? Probably not - which is even worse as Toews decline had already started the final year of his last contract. From memory that was the year Stan traded Danault + a pick for Weiss & Fleischmann. Wow! Not sure 3 Cups that were arguably supported by the previous GM can forgive the contracts (Seabrook as well), & trades Stan has signed off on. Also trading Panarin???

Toews & Kane contracts were really hard to believe. They signed a season before their existing contracts were up & before 2 new caps were announced so Stan had no idea what the cap hits would do to the team. There was no reason to do it except the news was going to give their fans some good news after the Hawks couldn't get anywhere near previous seasons. Terrible timing that was avoidable.

If they had of waited, would they have been different contracts? Probably not - which is even worse as Toews decline had already started the final year of his last contract. From memory that was the year Stan traded Danault + a pick for Weiss & Fleischmann. Wow! Not sure 3 Cups that were arguably supported by the previous GM can forgive the contracts (Seabrook as well), & trades Stan has signed off on. Also trading Panarin???
- Aussiepenguin

Chicago really has made some puzzling deals. Most gms draft players for their successor. Shero's era was defined by Patrick draft picks, and Rutherford has really capitalized on Shero's picks. If I recall, the core of Seabrook, Keith, Toews, and Kane were all drafted by Tallon. Although Stan did make some key deals and signings, ultimately his tenure may have been a little too long.

Chicago really has made some puzzling deals. Most gms draft players for their successor. Shero's era was defined by Patrick draft picks, and Rutherford has really capitalized on Shero's picks. If I recall, the core of Seabrook, Keith, Toews, and Kane were all drafted by Tallon. Although Stan did make some key deals and signings, ultimately his tenure may have been a little too long.
- Thrill81

My immediate thought there is Snow & Lou. I haven't seen too many islanders fans giving Garth credit for the great prospects they have. Just grief, lots & lots of Garth grief. I'd even wager in a few years if/when the Islanders become a force the credit will be given to Lou!

I'm not sure Shero would have developed Sheary, Rust, Guentzy etc the way Sully & JR have. Without Sully first coaching those guys in a very good AHL team, there's no garauntee they would have had the opportunity they actually got. Then you have to question who Shero would have engaged as coach. Lots of different events created the perfect storm for the Pens. I'm wondering If Sully had been involved earlier with Pouliot, could things have been different? Maybe not but we'll never know.

My immediate thought there is Snow & Lou. I haven't seen too many islanders fans giving Garth credit for the great prospects they have. Just grief, lots & lots of Garth grief. I'd even wager in a few years if/when the Islanders become a force the credit will be given to Lou!

I'm not sure Shero would have developed Sheary, Rust, Guentzy etc the way Sully & JR have. Without Sully first coaching those guys in a very good AHL team, there's no garauntee they would have had the opportunity they actually got. Then you have to question who Shero would have engaged as coach. Lots of different events created the perfect storm for the Pens. I'm wondering If Sully had been involved earlier with Pouliot, could things have been different? Maybe not but we'll never know.
- Aussiepenguin

It also reminds me of Patrick drafting matt moulson and doing nothing with that. It's why I find trade webs so interesting. Yes JR won the cup 2016 and 2017, but the pieces that brought it together can be tied back even to Patrick. It's kind of the rush that trades give me. I wouldn't have suspected Dupuis would have become a fan favorite when he was first traded to Pittsburgh. Hockey teams are essentially giant storms of transactions.

It also reminds me of Patrick drafting matt moulson and doing nothing with that.
- Thrill81

No one at the time raised an eyebrow. Had to make choices with your 50 contracts back then with bigger draft classes due to having sold off so many pieces.

No one at the time raised an eyebrow. Had to make choices with your 50 contracts back then with bigger draft classes due to having sold off so many pieces.
- hardnosed

I'm not old enough to remember that. I forget that the draft used to have 9 rounds. I didn't mean that as an insult to Patrick. Just meaning that not every gm sees the same thing in a player.

It also reminds me of Patrick drafting matt moulson and doing nothing with that. It's why I find trade webs so interesting. Yes JR won the cup 2016 and 2017, but the pieces that brought it together can be tied back even to Patrick. It's kind of the rush that trades give me. I wouldn't have suspected Dupuis would have become a fan favorite when he was first traded to Pittsburgh. Hockey teams are essentially giant storms of transactions.
- Thrill81

Yeah, JR didn't do much...

Ridding the Pens of the Scuderi contract and getting Daley.
Picking up Schultz
Fleecing the Nucks for Bonino
Hagelin
Kessel
Cullen
Cole

It's really because of the prior GMs.

Yeah, JR didn't do much...

Ridding the Pens of the Scuderi contract and getting Daley.
Picking up Schultz
Fleecing the Nucks for Bonino
Hagelin
Kessel
Cullen
Cole

It's really because of the prior GMs.
- Rinosaur

That's not what I mean at all. What I find interesting is how Shero's acquisition of Sutter in 2013 ends with JR sending him off to Vancouver for Bonino, and as you said fleecing them. Or how Shero's signing of Scuderi ended with JR trading him for Daley. I'm not saying it's because of prior GMs, I'm saying that it's cool seeing a GM like JR take what he's given and turn it into a Stanley Cup roster. Shero in 2014 didn't have the ability or pieces to take us to a cup. JR in 2016 did.

No one at the time raised an eyebrow. Had to make choices with your 50 contracts back then with bigger draft classes due to having sold off so many pieces.
- hardnosed

That happened with Jake Muzzin as well. Can't win em all.

That happened with Jake Muzzin as well. Can't win em all.
- 668710

I think maybe the hardest thing in pro hockey is talent evaluation. RW has shown plenty of evidence to show how much of a crap-shoot it is for players to make the NHL being drafted after the 2nd round. While there are plenty of top players drafted in the 2nd round, overall, 2nd round picks have a small chance of being true impact players at the NHL level.

Muzzin was a 5th round pick and Moulson was a 9th round pick. Like you said, can't win'em all. Teams that pick up these type of players via trade simply luck out when they pan out.

That happened with Jake Muzzin as well. Can't win em all.
- 668710

What could have been. Two Stanley Cups do make it easy to forget. On the flip side we've gotten guys like Schultz for pennies so it goes both ways.

What could have been. Two Stanley Cups do make it easy to forget. On the flip side we've gotten guys like Schultz for pennies so it goes both ways.
- Thrill81

Guentzel in the third round turned out good for us. There's players in the first round of his draft class that aren't nhlers. Every team goes through things like this for better or worse haha

Guentzel in the third round turned out good for us. There's players in the first round of his draft class that aren't nhlers. Every team goes through things like this for better or worse haha
- 668710

Drafting/Player Development has to be one of the hardest tasks in hockey. It's largely a numbers game. What I think has made the Pens so good at development is not necessarily looking for the best player, but identifying players who fit the mold of their system.

I think maybe the hardest thing in pro hockey is talent evaluation. RW has shown plenty of evidence to show how much of a crap-shoot it is for players to make the NHL being drafted after the 2nd round. While there are plenty of top players drafted in the 2nd round, overall, 2nd round picks have a small chance of being true impact players at the NHL level.

Muzzin was a 5th round pick and Moulson was a 9th round pick. Like you said, can't win'em all. Teams that pick up these type of players via trade simply luck out when they pan out.
- Rinosaur

Yea it is crazy, so much going on. Having the analytics helps it's a good tool to have in the bag. I've never dug into them personally because it's not my job to do haha I just Love watching the game. I do look at them when Wilson, Jboyd and feds throw them up it's interesting to me sometimes.

Drafting/Player Development has to be one of the hardest tasks in hockey. It's largely a numbers game. What I think has made the Pens so good at development is not necessarily looking for the best player, but identifying players who fit the mold of their system.
- Rinosaur

Yea exactly, you have to identify, pick and stick with it in the later rounds while also using analytics. It's a lot lol

EK saying we are talking to Steve Mason. Not sure how I feel about it haha.

EK saying we are talking to Steve Mason. Not sure how I feel about it haha.
- 668710

Makes no sense with solid young cheap goalies like DeSmith and Jarry.

EK saying we are talking to Steve Mason. Not sure how I feel about it haha.
- 668710

It makes about as much sense as us getting Karlsson (his last Pens rumor).

I'm pleasantly surprised. Maybe Wilson's Maatta +assets for trouba had me figure most pens fans didn't like Maatta. Daley seemed to be the only guy Maatta didn't look good with and even then, they weren't terrible, especially compared to the days of having an aging orpik and scuderi on the roster.
- Thrill81

Maatta was a huge whipping boy two seasons ago, but hasn't been since he got healthy. At this point, I don't think anyone dislikes Maatta, there's just debate over his degree of expendability and where he falls on our hierarchy of D men. I'm of the opinion that he's our second best defenseman.

Maatta was a huge whipping boy two seasons ago, but hasn't been since he got healthy. At this point, I don't think anyone dislikes Maatta, there's just debate over his degree of expendability and where he falls on our hierarchy of D men. I'm of the opinion that he's our second best defenseman.
- Victoro311

I'm pretty much on the same page as you, but I choose to hold off on the "second best" until I see Letang having a rested and healthy season; he could quickly go back to #1 status.

Maatta was a huge whipping boy two seasons ago, but hasn't been since he got healthy. At this point, I don't think anyone dislikes Maatta, there's just debate over his degree of expendability and where he falls on our hierarchy of D men. I'm of the opinion that he's our second best defenseman.
- Victoro311

I can see that. The penguins should consider anyone that isn't Letang, Malkin, Sid, and I'd beg to say maybe Guentzel as "somewhat" expendable. I do really like the way Maatta plays though.

I'm pretty much on the same page as you, but I choose to hold off on the "second best" until I see Letang having a rested and healthy season; he could quickly go back to #1 status.
- Rinosaur

I think even on a down year like last year, Letang is still head and shoulders our best D man. That's not a knock on Maatta, who I think is top pairing caliber, I just think Letang is that good. I think even with his struggles last season, Letang was still a top 15 D man in the league. Maatta's not close to the top 15.

Has RW abandoned the blog? Come back buddy.

I think even on a down year like last year, Letang is still head and shoulders our best D man. That's not a knock on Maatta, who I think is top pairing caliber, I just think Letang is that good. I think even with his struggles last season, Letang was still a top 15 D man in the league. Maatta's not close to the top 15.
- Victoro311

Yep. Letang returning to form (top 5 instead of top 15) solves a whole lot of issues and potential issues.

Yep. Letang returning to form (top 5 instead of top 15) solves a whole lot of issues and potential issues.
- hardnosed

Forwards making their shots at an average rate will also solve 75% of the issues we were having during last season's playoffs. The defense was kind of disjointed, but at this point that's just the hockey we play. The real problem was not scoring, the defense and Letang were just easier to blame.