That's what a 4th line player does. And no, he didn't embarrass himself. He had a good game 4 against the Jets I remember seeing. He played alright considering his role. Nobody said he's being signed to be an every day, 20 goal scoring top-six winger. See the difference?
- Unholy_Goalie

If you want someone with grit, toughness and sandpaper who can't hockey, you should sign my mate from Wales, Billy the Pigeon. (frank)ing Psycho. Wouldn't even cost you a million. Sign for the same as Ennis I'd imagine.

I'll text him to see if he's free.

If you want someone with grit, toughness and sandpaper who can't hockey, you should sign my mate from Wales, Billy the Pigeon. (frank)ing Psycho. Wouldn't even cost you a million. Sign for the same as Ennis I'd imagine.

I'll text him to see if he's free.
- walshyleafsfan

I’ve bought his jersey already.

My mistake. I apologize.

He played 4 out of 13 playoff games for the Predators in 2018.

1 game vs. Colorado.

3 vs. Winnipeg.

He's exactly what the Leafs need.

And he was so impressive in game 4, he was a healthy scratch in game 5.
- Atomic Wedgie

To be fair we are good in game 5's and 6's. Games 1, 4 and 7 are our issues.

My mistake. I apologize.

He played 4 out of 13 playoff games for the Predators in 2018.

1 game vs. Colorado.

3 vs. Winnipeg.

He's exactly what the Leafs need.

And he was so impressive in game 4, he was a healthy scratch in game 5.
- Atomic Wedgie

4th liners get scratched. That's part of being a 4th liner. Doesn't mean he wasn't an effective gritty player when he did play.

And again, I don't care if it's Hartnell or Brouwer or Rick Nash or even Alex Chiasson or Chris Stewart. A winger with some size and grit on the 4th line would help the team. And it doesn't matter if he plays every game. He doesn't have to score a tonne of goals, just be physical, be gritty, give the Leafs an element they currently lack and still be able to play hockey.

To be fair we are good in game 5's and 6's. Games 1, 4 and 7 are our issues.
- walshyleafsfan

Advanced stats are truly amazing.

Dubas is zeroing in on obtaining a game 4 guy - Scott Hartnell!

If you want someone with grit, toughness and sandpaper who can't hockey, you should sign my mate from Wales, Billy the Pigeon. (frank)ing Psycho. Wouldn't even cost you a million. Sign for the same as Ennis I'd imagine.

I'll text him to see if he's free.
- walshyleafsfan

Not saying that at all. If that's what they needed, they could have kept Martin. I'm talking about a player with size who can play on the 4th line and chip in sometimes in other areas if ever needed. Stewart, Brouwer, Chiasson, Hartnell, Rick Nash; there's guys out there who can add a level of physicality to the Leafs and still bring a bit of hockey skill to the table.

4th liners get scratched. That's part of being a 4th liner. Doesn't mean he wasn't an effective gritty player when he did play.

And again, I don't care if it's Hartnell or Brouwer or Rick Nash or even Alex Chiasson or Chris Stewart. A winger with some size and grit on the 4th line would help the team. And it doesn't matter if he plays every game. He doesn't have to score a tonne of goals, just be physical, be gritty, give the Leafs an element they currently lack and still be able to play hockey.
- Unholy_Goalie

Hartnell or Brouwer or Rick Nash or even Alex Chiasson or Chris Stewart

one of these things in not like the others

4th liners get scratched. That's part of being a 4th liner. Doesn't mean he wasn't an effective gritty player when he did play.

And again, I don't care if it's Hartnell or Brouwer or Rick Nash or even Alex Chiasson or Chris Stewart. A winger with some size and grit on the 4th line would help the team. And it doesn't matter if he plays every game. He doesn't have to score goals, just be physical, be gritty, give the Leafs an element they currently lack.
- Unholy_Goalie

Generally speaking, guys who get into less than 33% of playoff games, and then who average less than 10 minutes a game are by their very definition "not effective."

If he was effective, he would have been in the lineup more.

He wasn't effective, so he sat in the press box.

This shouldn't be that difficult a concept to grasp - even for you.

Cheat sheet:

Effective: coach wants you to play

Not Effective: coach wants to to sit in the press box, so that people who are effective can play

Really, Really Not Effective: coach doesn't want you back next year - even at $1 million.

Hartnell or Brouwer or Rick Nash or even Alex Chiasson or Chris Stewart

one of these things in not like the others
- senstroll

Nash would obviously be able to play in the top-six more often than the others but he was barely a 20 goal scorer last year and played on the 3rd line sometimes too. He's not the Rick Nash of before and might not play at all this year too.

Generally speaking, guys who get into less than 33% of playoff games, and then who average less than 10 minutes a game are by their very definition "not effective."

If he was effective, he would have been in the lineup more.

He wasn't effective, so he sat in the press box.

This shouldn't be that difficult a concept to grasp - even for you.

Cheat sheet:

Effective: coach wants you to play

Not Effective: coach wants to to sit in the press box, so that people who are effective can play

Really, Really Not Effective: coach doesn't want you back next year - even at $1 million.
- Atomic Wedgie

Different players play different roles and play in different situations. That's why they have 4th lines, 13th forwards, 7th defensemen and a back-up goalie. Should be easy, even for you, to understand.

Nash would obviously be able to play in the top-six more often than the others but he was barely a 20 goal scorer last year and played on the 3rd line sometimes too. He's not the Rick Nash of before and might not play at all this year too.
- Unholy_Goalie

Take a look at what you wrote (I've taken the liberty of bolding it).

Think about it for a few moments.

Think really, really, really hard.

Take a look at what you wrote (I've taken the liberty of bolding it).

Think about it for a few moments.

Think really, really, really hard.
- Atomic Wedgie

Doesn't mean he can't be effective on a 1 year deal in a different role.

Think, really, really, really hard about it.

Different players play different roles and play in different situations. That's why they have 4th lines, 13th forwards, 7th defensemen and a back-up goalie. Should be easy, even for you, to understand.
- Unholy_Goalie

So Hartnell is no longer your 4th liner - he's now your 13th forward.

Hey everyone, we are making progress!

Doesn't mean he can't be effective on a 1 year deal in a different role.

Think, really, really, really hard about it.
- Unholy_Goalie

So his role last year was healthy scratch in the playoffs.

What kind of different role do you have in mind?

So Hartnell is no longer your 4th liner - he's now your 13th forward.

Hey everyone, we are making progress!
- Atomic Wedgie

I said from the start, he was a 4th line / part time player, like he was with Nashville. 4th liners don't always play 82 games. I'd say it's pretty uncommon.

So his role last year was healthy scratch in the playoffs.

What kind of different role do you have in mind?
- Atomic Wedgie

Still scored 13 goals in 61 games during the regular season. Still brought energy in the few playoff games he played. Still rather have him than Leivo or Ennis on the 4th line, depending on the opponent.

He was a healthy scratch for 33% of his playoff games, and in the games for which he dressed, he got less than 10 minutes per game. And he did frank all. He embarrassed himself.

Next year he's a year older.

Nashville walked away.

Would the Leafs benefit from a guy who can skate, hit, and add grit?

Hell yes.

Would the Leafs benefit from Brouwer or Hartnell?

Hell no.

See the difference?
- Atomic Wedgie

It’s the equilvalent of komarov and the leafs didn’t try and sign him.

I think that should explain there direction.

It’s the equilvalent of komarov and the leafs didn’t try and sign him.

I think that should explain there direction.
- bryant

4 skilled lines...less 4th line grinders is probably the way Dubas goes

in a few years everyone will be doing the same..cuz Leafs will have multiple cups

4 skilled lines...less 4th line grinders is probably the way Dubas goes

in a few years everyone will be doing the same..cuz Leafs will have multiple cups
- senstroll

When komarov couldn’t crack the lineup in the playoffs you could see what was working.

They had the kadri suspension and I don’t think he even got in the lineup.

Round and round the argument goes where it stops, we could only hope!!

For a page or two there was some decent hockey talk, before the trollfest took hold once again.

So his role last year was healthy scratch in the playoffs.

What kind of different role do you have in mind?
- Atomic Wedgie

Usually people either "lose" the argument or result to just insulting UG, i appreciate that you've won an argument while only using some mildly insulting tone

It’s the equilvalent of komarov and the leafs didn’t try and sign him.

I think that should explain there direction.
- bryant

It actually isn't because Komarov is very limited in his ability to score compared to other guys available who have proven to be multiple time 20 goal scorers.

When komarov couldn’t crack the lineup in the playoffs you could see what was working.

They had the kadri suspension and I don’t think he even got in the lineup.
- bryant

Yeah, it worked so well that they lost in the 1st round.

The Leafs are a speed team and that's great and fine but they can't completely neglect the physical side of the game. Having some crash and bang guys who can also play hockey lower in their lineup would be a good addition.

Pass on Karlsson. End of discussion.
- Steven_Seagull

Karlsson is an absolutely stupid idea.

Karlsson is an absolutely stupid idea.
- Aetherial

Yup, two-time Norris winner, RHD, in his prime.

Really stupid.

Generally speaking, guys who get into less than 33% of playoff games, and then who average less than 10 minutes a game are by their very definition "not effective."

If he was effective, he would have been in the lineup more.

He wasn't effective, so he sat in the press box.

This shouldn't be that difficult a concept to grasp - even for you.

Cheat sheet:

Effective: coach wants you to play

Not Effective: coach wants to to sit in the press box, so that people who are effective can play

Really, Really Not Effective: coach doesn't want you back next year - even at $1 million.
- Atomic Wedgie