I like PK but he's very overrated. I wouldn't trade Letang for him straight up.
- Barnaby36

I'm sorry, but a statement like that is blind homerism. Especially at this stage of the respective careers, Subban is a top-10 defenseman, maybe top-5. Letang has fallen off of a cliff, he's maybe make my top-20. Maybe 5-6 years ago I'd argue that they were closer, but it's a pretty wide gap now. And FWIW, no, I wouldn't put Gostisbehere in my top-20, either.

I'm amazed that Wayne Simmonds doesn't make the list. Then again, for a guy who evaluates players based solely on their 5v5 metrics, I'm not surprised. I'd put him above both JvR and Shattenkirk.

I agree about not trading Letang for him. But, outside of Burns who plays more like a forward, Letang is the only player that can put up numbers like EK65. I'm betting a healthy off season will have him playing a little more aggressively next year

I'm sorry, but a statement like that is blind homerism. Especially at this stage of the respective careers, Subban is a top-10 defenseman, maybe top-5. Letang has fallen off of a cliff, he's maybe make my top-20. Maybe 5-6 years ago I'd argue that they were closer, but it's a pretty wide gap now. And FWIW, no, I wouldn't put Gostisbehere in my top-20, either.

I'm amazed that Wayne Simmonds doesn't make the list. Then again, for a guy who evaluates players based solely on their 5v5 metrics, I'm not surprised. I'd put him above both JvR and Shattenkirk.
- jmatchett383

Leyang's cliff has been due to SERIOUS health issues. The talents still there, he's just playing more tentative now. I really think that changes this year.

To be fair to you guys, picks 5-14 all made a bad decision in the 2008 draft and PK Subban was taken just after Eric Tangradi in the 2nd round of the 2007 draft at #43. Drafting isn't easy. lol
- Rinosaur

This draft in particular has a lot of low ceiling guys in the top-10. After Kane was the consensus #1, you had guys like JvR, Turris, Gagner, and Voracek. All were projected to be good, but not great players. Alzner was projected as a top-pair defenseman and, well, he's a decent 2nd pair defenseman. Hickey was a total wtf. Hammill and Ellerby has pretty negligible impacts at the NHL level. All in all, it was one of the weaker drafts since 2005.

Leyang's cliff has been due to SERIOUS health issues. The talents still there, he's just playing more tentative now. I really think that changes this year.
- cranktheradio

I'm not debating that health issues have been a factor. That doesn't change the fact that almost no one outside of Pittsburgh would take Letang over PK right now or for the bulk of their careers to date.

If you have some heartfelt love for Captain Head Snap Letang, I get it. But looking at it objectively, PK is a better overall defenseman, and has been for the majority of their respective careers.

I'm sorry, but a statement like that is blind homerism
- jmatchett383

- VeryModernMan

Yeah...Subban is dating Lindsey Vonn, so he wins that one by a mile.

Yeah...Subban is dating Lindsey Vonn, so he wins that one by a mile.


- jmatchett383

I usually just lurk, but need to respond to this one. There is absolutely no way that Lindsey Vonn > Catherine Laflamme. No chance. Lindsey Vonn would eat you, me and Letang .. and still have room for dessert. Sorry, had to throw that one out there. Alrighty, carry on..

Also, FWIW, according to Rankin & Bass, all Penguins are misfits.

I usually just lurk, but need to respond to this one. There is absolutely no way that Lindsey Vonn > Catherine Laflamme. No chance. Lindsey Vonn would eat you, me and Letang .. and still have room for dessert. Sorry, had to throw that one out there. Alrighty, carry on..
- MikeyKay

Well, you're allowed to be wrong, so no problem.

Olympic athlete with killer thighs vs. plastic reality TV star...such a tough choice.

Well, you're allowed to be wrong, so no problem.

Olympic athlete with killer thighs vs. plastic reality TV star...such a tough choice.
- jmatchett383

Yea, I dunno man. Whatever floats the boat I suppose.

[/img]

Yea, I dunno man. Whatever floats the boat I suppose.


- MikeyKay[/img]

OMG a picture from one of her bad days...agreed it's a completely unflattering photo!

Look, Lafalmme's a gorgeous woman no doubt. Very plastic blonde bombshell.

Give me the woman who has some of the hottest legs in the world, who actually did something with her life besides marrying someone famous, and who looks like a real (frank)ing person as opposed to a barbie doll. My preference.

Also, again, both in the present and over the bulk of their careers, PK Subban is/has been a better on-ice player than Letang.

I request a 2min minor penalty for the #88 Flyer, who obviously doesn't know what Photoshop is ("Sports Illustrated"), starting here a chicken-brawl - in an elsewhere just scientific sports-thread!

Having said that, when you prefer sport-tights, google for the playboy-shooting of "Katharina Witt"...

I request a 2min minor penalty for the #88 Flyer, who obviously doesn't know what Photoshop is ("Sports Illustrated"), starting here a chicken-brawl - in an elsewhere just scientific sports-thread!

Having said that, when you prefer sport-tights, google for the playboy-shooting of "Katharina Witt"...
- VeryModernMan

Can you please remind me who posted the first photo of a girlfriend/wife in the argument?

Again, I personally don't like plastic women. Sure, they're attractive, would be fun for a one-night stand, but I prefer women who look like real people.

Can you please remind me who posted the first photo of a girlfriend/wife in the argument?
- jmatchett383

In my intention it was about Tanger's facial expression regarding "homerism"... or as we say: A hockey play!

OMG a picture from one of her bad days...agreed it's a completely unflattering photo!

Look, Lafalmme's a gorgeous woman no doubt. Very plastic blonde bombshell.

Give me the woman who has some of the hottest legs in the world, who actually did something with her life besides marrying someone famous, and who looks like a real (frank)ing person as opposed to a barbie doll. My preference.

Also, again, both in the present and over the bulk of their careers, PK Subban is/has been a better on-ice player than Letang.
- jmatchett383

who actually did something with her life besides marrying someone famous

Didn't realize that was part of the criteria. Her "hottest legs in the world" would swallow you whole; and when you come up for a grasp of air you're welcomed with a face resembling Shrek's hot cousin. (she skis well, though)




But yes, will agree with PK > Letang on the ice.

Wonder if Couture would've been good here.

Even if he wasn't in the NHL his first year like Gagner, I don't know that Hemsky, Horcoff and Penner would've helped the kid like Thornton, Marleau, Heatley, Clowe, and Pavelski did in SJ

who actually did something with her life besides marrying someone famous

Didn't realize that was part of the criteria. Her "hottest legs in the world" would swallow you whole; and when you come up for a grasp of air you're welcomed with a face resembling Shrek's hot cousin. (she skis well, though)




But yes, will agree with PK > Letang on the ice.
- MikeyKay

Not saying it's the only thing that matters, but again, I like someone who's a real person and actually has done things with her life as opposed to someone who's on a reality show because of her husband's chosen profession.

But if we're going based solely on who most high school boys would prefer, then yes, it's Laflamme. Granted, I haven't seen many pictures of her out and about attending baseball games or walking down the street on a Wednesday afternoon, most of the pictures of her getting all dolled up and posing with Kris or after having professionals get her ready for TV.

I'm not debating that health issues have been a factor. That doesn't change the fact that almost no one outside of Pittsburgh would take Letang over PK right now or for the bulk of their careers to date.

If you have some heartfelt love for Captain Head Snap Letang, I get it. But looking at it objectively, PK is a better overall defenseman, and has been for the majority of their respective careers.
- jmatchett383

I guess my thought is moving forward. I wouldn't trade Letang for PK. I think Letang is a better player when healthy and not stuck in his head. I honestly think that he regains form and will be the better player going forward.

This draft in particular has a lot of low ceiling guys in the top-10. After Kane was the consensus #1, you had guys like JvR, Turris, Gagner, and Voracek. All were projected to be good, but not great players. Alzner was projected as a top-pair defenseman and, well, he's a decent 2nd pair defenseman. Hickey was a total wtf. Hammill and Ellerby has pretty negligible impacts at the NHL level. All in all, it was one of the weaker drafts since 2005.
- jmatchett383

I just trip on how many times GM’s completely missed on Jamie in this draft, a 5th round pick ...
Quite possibly the best late pick ever ...

I wouldn't trade Letang for PK.
- cranktheradio

, especially considering the shorter and cheaper contract (and locker room-attitudes).

@dozer: Datsyuk was 6th #171 overall, not to mention some undrafted...

I'm sorry, but a statement like that is blind homerism. Especially at this stage of the respective careers, Subban is a top-10 defenseman, maybe top-5. Letang has fallen off of a cliff, he's maybe make my top-20. Maybe 5-6 years ago I'd argue that they were closer, but it's a pretty wide gap now. And FWIW, no, I wouldn't put Gostisbehere in my top-20, either.

- jmatchett383

I agree with you about Subban and don't dislike him as much as many Pens fans. He can be obnoxious but there are much more obnoxious players in the league, such as Marchand and Kesler.

However, regarding Letang, there are many factors in his supposed decline. As other have mentioned there are his injuries. However, recently the offense has not been supporting him as much as they should forcing him to "do too much". If they could support him and the rest of the defense a little better next season I think both he and the defense will be very solid. While he has never had the offensive ability of defensemen like Karlsson and Subban when he is not trying to do too much he is more sound defensively than either of them.

defensive ability:
Letang > Subban > Karlsson

offensive ability:
Karlsson > Subban > Letang

Since a defenseman's primary job is playing defense I would take Letang over the other two. He can still move the puck well.

I like PK but he's very overrated. I wouldn't trade Letang for him straight up.
- Barnaby36

Biggest knock on PK is that contract and cap hit. If he had Letang's contract, I think you go with PK. Doesn't have the injury history.

I'm sorry, but a statement like that is blind homerism. Especially at this stage of the respective careers, Subban is a top-10 defenseman, maybe top-5. Letang has fallen off of a cliff, he's maybe make my top-20. Maybe 5-6 years ago I'd argue that they were closer, but it's a pretty wide gap now. And FWIW, no, I wouldn't put Gostisbehere in my top-20, either.

I'm amazed that Wayne Simmonds doesn't make the list. Then again, for a guy who evaluates players based solely on their 5v5 metrics, I'm not surprised. I'd put him above both JvR and Shattenkirk.
- jmatchett383

Talking about someone that fell off of a cliff: Simmonds. He was just terrible in the playoffs against the Penguins. What happened to him? Personal issues, injuries?
IMO Letang is the better player but the gap is not wide. PK is overrated.

I'm not debating that health issues have been a factor. That doesn't change the fact that almost no one outside of Pittsburgh would take Letang over PK right now or for the bulk of their careers to date.

If you have some heartfelt love for Captain Head Snap Letang, I get it. But looking at it objectively, PK is a better overall defenseman, and has been for the majority of their respective careers.
- jmatchett383

Well objectively, those people would be dumb, Offensively they are almost identical statisically from 2008-now. Letang 0.68ppg to PK 0.65. And despite what people think Letang isnt a bad defender, i dont know what people think of PK's game in that respect but i imagine its not that much better. 9 sec difference TOI in PK's favor. and surprisingly enough, with all the idiotic penalties Letang takes, PK has taken 200Min more than him.

In a vaccuum, if you choose PK over Letang for any other reason than age, you just hate the Penguins adn refuse to admit that Letang is top 10 and when hes playing well easily top 5.