I agree with you about Subban and don't dislike him as much as many Pens fans. He can be obnoxious but there are much more obnoxious players in the league, such as Marchand and Kesler.

However, regarding Letang, there are many factors in his supposed decline. As other have mentioned there are his injuries. However, recently the offense has not been supporting him as much as they should forcing him to "do too much". If they could support him and the rest of the defense a little better next season I think both he and the defense will be very solid. While he has never had the offensive ability of defensemen like Karlsson and Subban when he is not trying to do too much he is more sound defensively than either of them.

defensive ability:
Letang > Subban > Karlsson

offensive ability:
Karlsson > Subban > Letang

Since a defenseman's primary job is playing defense I would take Letang over the other two. He can still move the puck well.
- PghPens668771

I don't think Letang is better defensively than Subban. Actually, I think his defensive positioning is one of his flaws. He's been able to use his speed and skating to make up for it, but he's slowly been losing that. Not saying that Subban is some defensive stalwart, but I think he's a better defender.

I just trip on how many times GM’s completely missed on Jamie in this draft, a 5th round pick ...
Quite possibly the best late pick ever ...
- dozerD10

Datsuk in the 6th round might be a good argument

OMG a picture from one of her bad days...agreed it's a completely unflattering photo!

Look, Lafalmme's a gorgeous woman no doubt. Very plastic blonde bombshell.

Give me the woman who has some of the hottest legs in the world, who actually did something with her life besides marrying someone famous, and who looks like a real (frank)ing person as opposed to a barbie doll. My preference.

Also, again, both in the present and over the bulk of their careers, PK Subban is/has been a better on-ice player than Letang.
- jmatchett383

LMAO

Laflamme is a natural beauty.

, especially considering the shorter and cheaper contract (and locker room-attitudes).

@dozer: Datsyuk was 6th #171 overall, not to mention some undrafted...
- VeryModernMan

I said possibly, not definitively... Pavel was helluva player and champion.. just for me though Jamie would be just as comfortable playing in the 70’s & 80’s as he is today... with his combo of skill & nasty ... he reminds me of Wayne Cashman ...

Well objectively, those people would be dumb, Offensively they are almost identical statisically from 2008-now. Letang 0.68ppg to PK 0.65. And despite what people think Letang isnt a bad defender, i dont know what people think of PK's game in that respect but i imagine its not that much better. 9 sec difference TOI in PK's favor. and surprisingly enough, with all the idiotic penalties Letang takes, PK has taken 200Min more than him.

In a vaccuum, if you choose PK over Letang for any other reason than age, you just hate the Penguins adn refuse to admit that Letang is top 10 and when hes playing well easily top 5.
- joecool2931

^^^ This man knows his $hIt. Give him a trophy 🏆

Datsuk in the 6th round might be a good argument
- weakglovehand

Hasak in the 10th round is another, probably a better player too. Big Buff was a 6th rounder. Zetterburg? Martin St Louis? Peka Rinne?

Datsuk in the 6th round might be a good argument
- weakglovehand

I believe Zetterberg dropped a lot in the draft. Awesome player.

Hörnqvist being the last pick of the draft is nuts too.

Martin St.Louis went undrafted right? I don't remember and I'm lazy to check it now.

Hasak in the 10th round is another, probably a better player too. Big Buff was a 6th rounder. Zetterburg? Martin St Louis? Peka Rinne?
- weakglovehand

You beat me to it. ZetterbUrgh was awesome haha

I just trip on how many times GM’s completely missed on Jamie in this draft, a 5th round pick ...
Quite possibly the best late pick ever ...
- dozerD10

Luc Robitaille in the 9th round is one I think is better but you’re right. Unreal how so many teams, especially ours, missed that pick.

The trade was bad the day it was made and everyone outside of Montreal knew it. It helped soften that division which I definitely appreciate as a fan..

I have to agree that while it's a noble sacrifice, it's not the same thing as a straight up cash donation. It's a larger scale, but not that different than you or I participating in a bottle drive, bake sale, or some other form of donating our time to help a cause. Personally I do this because I don't have the cash to spare but still want to help. PK does this because he too wants to give back, but these events are the foundation of his post hockey career. He's the next Don Cherry.. minus the insanity of course.
- leafsfann

I can tell you that the ones who weren't the Subban haters already knew it... You should have seen all people faces at work. What a bad day that was. It still hurts

Talking about someone that fell off of a cliff: Simmonds. He was just terrible in the playoffs against the Penguins. What happened to him? Personal issues, injuries?
IMO Letang is the better player but the gap is not wide. PK is overrated.
- Barnaby36

Simmonds was playing with a groin pull and leg injuries all of last season. He actually started the season on a tear with a hat trick on opening night and 9 points in his first 8 games. He then had a leg issue caused by his overcompensating for the groin injury and his skating just went to poop. It's the same thing Giroux went through 2 years ago.

You beat me to it. ZetterbUrgh was awesome haha
- Barnaby36

I’ll entertain The dominator & pavel & Luc for sure... zetterburg, buff & Marty Rinne hell no ...

Well objectively, those people would be dumb, Offensively they are almost identical statisically from 2008-now. Letang 0.68ppg to PK 0.65. And despite what people think Letang isnt a bad defender, i dont know what people think of PK's game in that respect but i imagine its not that much better. 9 sec difference TOI in PK's favor. and surprisingly enough, with all the idiotic penalties Letang takes, PK has taken 200Min more than him.

In a vaccuum, if you choose PK over Letang for any other reason than age, you just hate the Penguins adn refuse to admit that Letang is top 10 and when hes playing well easily top 5.
- joecool2931

I don't hate the Penguins, but I have no love for Letang. I used to like him back in the late 00s/early 10's, but, for all the crap Crosby gets about diving, he can't hold a candle to Letang (and PK is no saint). But looking at it as objectively as I can, if I'm starting a team tomorrow, with or without salaries coming to the equation, I'm taking Subban all day.

I agree with you about Subban and don't dislike him as much as many Pens fans. He can be obnoxious but there are much more obnoxious players in the league, such as Marchand and Kesler.

However, regarding Letang, there are many factors in his supposed decline. As other have mentioned there are his injuries. However, recently the offense has not been supporting him as much as they should forcing him to "do too much". If they could support him and the rest of the defense a little better next season I think both he and the defense will be very solid. While he has never had the offensive ability of defensemen like Karlsson and Subban when he is not trying to do too much he is more sound defensively than either of them.

defensive ability:
Letang > Subban > Karlsson

offensive ability:
Karlsson > Subban > Letang

Since a defenseman's primary job is playing defense I would take Letang over the other two. He can still move the puck well.
- PghPens668771

Taking Letang over either is asinine. Taking Letang over Karlsson is an "I don't watch hockey" level take.

I don't hate the Penguins, but I have no love for Letang. I used to like him back in the late 00s/early 10's, but, for all the crap Crosby gets about diving, he can't hold a candle to Letang (and PK is no saint). But looking at it as objectively as I can, if I'm starting a team tomorrow, with or without salaries coming to the equation, I'm taking Subban all day.
- jmatchett383

When did Letang start diving to a point where it overshadows his talent? Was it after his 3rd concussion? His broken hand, or foot? The stroke? Or his neck surgery?

Ahhh yes the online blog character assassination of the greatest US Born Winger in NHL History bc of a baseless accusation and because some of your buddies didn't get Kane's autograph??


https://www.forbes.com/si...s-accuser-not-believable/

"“The totality of the credible evidence - the proof - does not sufficiently substantiate the complainant’s allegation that she was raped by Patrick Kane,” wrote Sedita. “and this so-called “case” is rife with reasonable doubt.”

From the District Attorney^^

Ahhh yes the online blog character assassination of the greatest US Born Winger in NHL History bc of a baseless accusation and because some of your buddies didn't get Kane's autograph??


https://www.forbes.com/si...s-accuser-not-believable/

"“The totality of the credible evidence - the proof - does not sufficiently substantiate the complainant’s allegation that she was raped by Patrick Kane,” wrote Sedita. “and this so-called “case” is rife with reasonable doubt.”

From the District Attorney^^
- EnzoD

So wait...you're saying that he didn't rape the cab driver that he and his brother beat up because they didn't want to pay the cab fare?

When did Letang start diving to a point where it overshadows his talent? Was it after his 3rd concussion? His broken hand, or foot? The stroke? Or his neck surgery?
- MikeyKay

Around 2013. first noticed it really standing out in the B's series.

Edit: Had said 2011 by error.

What do you mean, "wut?" That crystal clear analogy didn't make sense to you?
- Rinosaur

Nah. I got it. Just don’t really understand the need to point it out. Subban has done great things for they community, why nitpick on dude being an awesome dude.

Nah. I got it. Just don’t really understand the need to point it out. Subban has done great things for they community, why nitpick on dude being an awesome dude.
- j.boyd919

It's nothing against PK, I said right in the comment that he deserves credit

It's just lazy reporting, on a significant point

Mario Lemieux has raised 25 million dollars for cancer through the Lemieux Foundation. "Mario Lemieux donates 25 Million to Cancer" is an inaccurate statement

The Sedin Twins donated 1 Million dollars each to Childrens Hospital in Vancouver. Actual cash, as in they wrote a check. They also didn't advertise it, but it got leaked to the media, they barely commented on it afterwards.

Doesn't sound as impressive as 10 million with an Atrium named after them and a huge press conference. I'm sure if you totaled up the money they had a part in raising it gets close to 10 million as well

Credit where Credit is due, but these aren't the same things

Ahhh yes the online blog character assassination of the greatest US Born Winger in NHL History bc of a baseless accusation and because some of your buddies didn't get Kane's autograph??


https://www.forbes.com/si...s-accuser-not-believable/

"“The totality of the credible evidence - the proof - does not sufficiently substantiate the complainant’s allegation that she was raped by Patrick Kane,” wrote Sedita. “and this so-called “case” is rife with reasonable doubt.”

From the District Attorney^^
- EnzoD

Cool.. still a (frank)ing scumbag

lmao montreal

who actually did something with her life besides marrying someone famous

Didn't realize that was part of the criteria. Her "hottest legs in the world" would swallow you whole; and when you come up for a grasp of air you're welcomed with a face resembling Shrek's hot cousin. (she skis well, though)




But yes, will agree with PK > Letang on the ice.
- MikeyKay

Barely, and then you have to put up with him in the room.

Nice hat PK.

Taking Letang over either is asinine. Taking Letang over Karlsson is an "I don't watch hockey" level take.
- Victoro311

I wouldn't want to be the goalie behind a combination of the Pens' offense (not supporting the defense) + Karlsson. It is bad enough with Letang. The breakaways and odd-man chances against would be even worse than they currently are.

Shattenkirk does not belong in the top 10. And Benn over Subban, all day, everyday.