That was actually his worst season for PPG wasn't it? His 3 seasons in Van .42 .43 .45

Pretty sure that is what you are going to get from him every year.
- manvanfan

He is one one of the most consistent players on the team and he does have trade value. It’s silly to hate someone because you don’t like their contract or you are insecure about their balls. I like sutter but I hope he is moved at the deadline for picks. We have Beagle, who is a poor mans Sutter and can fill that defensive role for a couple seasons

Why do you hate sutter? Because Willie deployed him on the PP?
- CanuckDon

Several reasons, but mainly because Benning called him foundational, not his fault though, but (frank) it, I've gonna take it out on someone. For 4.3 million dollars he represents everything that's been wrong with the Benning era, mistake after mistake.

Edit: so I guess it's really more about Benning being a (frank)up than Sutter.

Several reasons, but mainly because Benning called him foundational, not his fault though, but (frank) it, I've gonna take it out on someone. For 4.3 million dollars he represents everything that's been wrong with the Benning era, mistake after mistake.

Edit: so I guess it's really more about Benning being a (frank)up than Sutter.
- LeftCoaster

Lol. Sutter at least has trade value. Now Loui is a guy everyone should really hate

If Sutter was put in an offensive role with offensive wingers. He would score more. Instead he is put in a defensive role with defensive wingers and he still puts up points.

Markstrom doesn't let in that soft goal every game he is probably a top 15 goalie in the league.
- manvanfan

Very true Sutter did show numbers in CAR and PIT playing with offensive linemates.

Also true if Marky wasn't good for the Miller Muffin per game he'd be a hot commodity.

Lol. Sutter at least has trade value. Now Loui is a guy everyone should really hate
- CanuckDon

I hate him too!! Botchford is the one who reported Sutter is a wanted man, I'll believe it when I see it.

I hate him too!! Botchford is the one who reported Sutter is a wanted man, I'll believe it when I see it.
- LeftCoaster

There'll be demand for him at TDL.

On this day in 1997, the @NHLFlyers traded Mikael Renberg and Karl Dykhuis to the @TBLightning for four first-round picks (Simon Gagne, Maxime Ouellet, Justin Williams, and Tim Gleason) #Hockey365

Several reasons, but mainly because Benning called him foundational, not his fault though, but (frank) it, I've gonna take it out on someone. For 4.3 million dollars he represents everything that's been wrong with the Benning era, mistake after mistake.

Edit: so I guess it's really more about Benning being a (frank)up than Sutter.
- LeftCoaster

4.3M for a serviceable center who can PK and handle a checking role with the cap at 79.5M?


Doesn't sound like something that's going to hurt this franchise much.

4.3M for a serviceable center who can PK and handle a checking role with the cap at 79.5M?


Doesn't sound like something that's going to hurt this franchise much.
- Nucker101

Don't forget 'good in the room' too.

Hey all a heads up this might be worth a watch this Wednesday night on Sportscentre:

https://www.tsn.ca/video/...ing-murph-trailer~1466370

Several reasons, but mainly because Benning called him foundational, not his fault though, but (frank) it, I've gonna take it out on someone. For 4.3 million dollars he represents everything that's been wrong with the Benning era, mistake after mistake.

Edit: so I guess it's really more about Benning being a (frank)up than Sutter.
- LeftCoaster

Here's NHL scoring numbers from this season to put what just "scoring" means line per line.
Groups of 31.
1st liners
1-31 108-72 points(actual) / At PPG pace it would be 1.32-.96 (108-79 pts)
32-62 71-61 points / PPG .95-.78 (78-64 pts) Boeser
63-93 61-51 points / PPG .78-.68 (64-56 pts) Horvat

2nd liners
94- 124 51-46 points / .68-.60 (56-49 pts) Daniel Vanek Henrik
125-155 46-38 points / .60-.53 (49-43 pts) Baertschi
156-187 38-33 points / .53-.47 (43-39 pts)

3rd liners
188-218 33-29 points / .46-.42 (38-34 pts) Eriksson Sutter
219- 249 29-25 points / .42-.38 (34-31 pts) Gagner
250-280 25-22 points / .38-.33 (31-27 pts) Goldobin Archibald Leipsic (avg)

Virtanen .27 Granlund .23 Gaunce .16
Schaller .27 Beagle .28 Roussel .23 (new guys)

Not doing 4th liners.

Too understand
Actual production of groups of 31 players / PPG pace for the top 31 which would be different because not all players played a full schedule. Minimum 20 games played

Just scoring numbers but scoring is a big part of the game.

Here's NHL scoring numbers from this season to put what just "scoring" means line per line.
Groups of 31.
1st liners
1-31 108-72 points(actual) / At PPG pace it would be 1.32-.96 (108-79 pts)
32-62 71-61 points / PPG .95-.78 (78-64 pts) Boeser
63-93 61-51 points / PPG .78-.68 (64-56 pts) Horvat

2nd liners
94- 124 51-46 points / .68-.60 (56-49 pts) Daniel Vanek Henrik
125-155 46-38 points / .60-.53 (49-43 pts) Baertschi
156-187 38-33 points / .53-.47 (43-39 pts)

3rd liners
188-218 33-29 points / .46-.42 (38-34 pts) Eriksson Sutter
219- 249 29-25 points / .42-.38 (34-31 pts) Gagner
250-280 25-22 points / .38-.33 (31-27 pts) Goldobin Archibald Leipsic (avg)

Virtanen .27 Granlund .23 Gaunce .16
Schaller .27 Beagle .28 Roussel .23 (new guys)

Not doing 4th liners.

Too understand
Actual production of groups of 31 players / PPG pace for the top 31 which would be different because not all players played a full schedule. Minimum 20 games played

Just scoring numbers but scoring is a big part of the game.
- manvanfan

It's always dangerous to look at scoring totals alone without any context. Even if you want to judge a player on offense alone, it's just too basic and flawed.

How many offensive zone starts and defensive zone starts did the player get?

How much 5v5 and PP time?

What role was the player given? Was he used against top lines as a checker or was the player placed in a scoring role?

Who were his linemates? Did the player have a significantly high or low shooting percentage?

It's always dangerous to look at scoring totals alone without any context. Even if you want to judge a player on offense alone, it's just too basic and flawed.

How many offensive zone starts and defensive zone starts did the player get?

How much 5v5 and PP time?

What role was the player given? Was he used against top lines as a checker or was the player placed in a scoring role?

Who were his linemates? Did the player have a significantly high or low shooting percentage?
- Nucker101

Not trying to pump sutters tires too much, but he played primarily with downie in PIT. I think his other line mate was brendan morrow. His point totals in PIT were by playing 3C behind crosby and Malkin. The dude doesnt really get offensive opportunities.

4.3M for a serviceable center who can PK and handle a checking role with the cap at 79.5M?


Doesn't sound like something that's going to hurt this franchise much.
- Nucker101

4th line of 3m 3m and 6m

12m
I like sutter, at 4.3 it's not bad and he is far superior then beagle.

12m could get you a Karlsson or taveras caliber free agent. Overpay yes, but a player of that caliber will do moe to win games then our 12 million dollar 4th line.

It's always dangerous to look at scoring totals alone without any context. Even if you want to judge a player on offense alone, it's just too basic and flawed.

How many offensive zone starts and defensive zone starts did the player get?

How much 5v5 and PP time?

What role was the player given? Was he used against top lines as a checker or was the player placed in a scoring role?

Who were his linemates? Did the player have a significantly high or low shooting percentage?
- Nucker101

Too much context is how you get into retardlytics and it just creates more questions. This is simple.

Boeser is a 1st line player
Horvat is a 1st line player but at the bottom
Baertschi 2nd line.
Sutter and Eriksson, we all know they are used as defensive guys still put up points as good 3rd liners. Sutter has pretty much the same scoring rate over the past 3 seasons even though his ozone starts have gone from 52.1 to 43.8 to 22.6.
Beagle, Roussel, Schaller are 4th lines.
Virtanen, Gaunce, Granlund need to be better otherwise they are also 4th liners.

Not trying to pump sutters tires too much, but he played primarily with downie in PIT. I think his other line mate was brendan morrow. His point totals in PIT were by playing 3C behind crosby and Malkin. The dude doesnt really get offensive opportunities.
- Codes1087

I wouldn't pump his tires too much either, we all saw how he handled a more offensive role under WD, he's just not built for that usage. He is what he is, which is a decent role player.

Too much context is how you get into retardlytics and it just creates more questions. This is simple.

Boeser is a 1st line player
Horvat is a 1st line player but at the bottom
Baertschi 2nd line.
Sutter and Eriksson, we all know they are used as defensive guys still put up points as good 3rd liners. Sutter has pretty much the same scoring rate over the past 3 seasons even though his ozone starts have gone from 52.1 to 43.8 to 22.6.
Beagle, Roussel, Schaller are 4th lines.
Virtanen, Gaunce, Granlund need to be better otherwise they are also 4th liners.
- manvanfan

No.


You're confusing 2 very different things. Analytics refers to stats that involves shot differentials, scoring chances, zone entries, etc.

What I'm referring to is player usage. That's not analytical at all. It's pretty straightforward actually.

The fact that Sutter scored at a similar rate when given a more offensive role just goes to show his limitations offensively, that doesn't mean every other player scores the same of points no matter what just because Sutter does.

I can’t believe no one has mentioned that Shinkaruk was traded to MTL today. I miss him

No.


You're confusing 2 very different things. Analytics refers to stats that involves shot differentials, scoring chances, zone entries, etc.

What I'm referring to is player usage. That's not analytical at all. It's pretty straightforward actually.
- Nucker101

So how you do explain Sutter's change in ozone starts and playing a more defensive role over the years to his scoring numbers staying the same?

So Sutter's scoring is limited to his TOI?

I can’t believe no one has mentioned that Shinkaruk was traded to MTL today. I miss him
- CanuckDon

For Kerby Rachel

Joe Labate signs with Belleville Senators.

So how you do explain Sutter's change in ozone starts and playing a more defensive role over the years to his scoring numbers staying the same?
- manvanfan

See my edit.

It simply shows that he's very limited offensively and has no business being on an offensive 5v5 line and given PP minutes. Also goes to show that he is actually well suited for a checking bottom 6 role since he can always be counted on for a certain amount of production even if given very hard minutes.


If anything, the context here actually tells you a lot about Sutter as a player.

Meanwhile, just looking at point totals alone tells you he's similar to Sam Gagner which is far from the truth lol.

Do you think the Sedins last year score the same amount of points if they switched roles with Sutter and Granlund?

I can’t believe no one has mentioned that Shinkaruk was traded to MTL today. I miss him
- CanuckDon

Kerby Rychel being Montreal property was more interesting to me, thought he was still with Columbus. Classic case of why fans shouldn't get excited about a prospect too soon, even his rookie AHL season was decent and he still turned out to be a bust.

Not trying to pump sutters tires too much, but he played primarily with downie in PIT. I think his other line mate was brendan morrow. His point totals in PIT were by playing 3C behind crosby and Malkin. The dude doesnt really get offensive opportunities.
- Codes1087

I disagree. He was basically 2nd C in Carolina before the trade, and in his 3 seasons in PIT, there was plenty of missed time for Crosby and Malkin from injury.

My frustration with Sutter is that he has a lot of the tools to be a 2C: fast, great shot, responsible, etc. but just isnt one. Its much easier to be good defensive forward than a contributing offensive one, and his demeanor gives me the impression that he is complacent to be a shutdown guy. His game has not evolved or improved in 7+ seasons

Kerby Rychel being Montreal property was more interesting to me, thought he was still with Columbus. Classic case of why fans shouldn't get excited about a prospect too soon, even his rookie AHL season was decent and he still turned out to be a bust.
- Nucker101

Agreed, it’s staggering how much we overrate our prospects. Most will be busts!

See my edit.

It simply shows that he's very limited offensively and has no business being on an offensive 5v5 line and given PP minutes. Also goes to show that he is actually well suited for a checking bottom 6 role since he can always be counted on for a certain amount of production even if given very hard minutes.


If anything, the context here actually tells you a lot about Sutter as a player.

Meanwhile, just looking at point totals alone tells you he's similar to Sam Gagner which is far from the truth lol.

Do you think the Sedins last year score the same amount of points if they switched roles with Sutter and Granlund?
- Nucker101

If you look at Sutter's role and line mates he would be similar to Beagle. Going to say that Sutter is not better then Beagle?