So how many guys do you have to draft before you get a Panarin? 200? 300? Some teams never get one. Draft picks are only draft picks, they are not NHLers. We have documented plenty of NHL first round failures around here.
- Savoy

Panarin was diamond in the ruff i would not mine him back but would rather see a 2nd line center or top 3 d man instead.

Panarin was diamond in the ruff i would not mine him back but would rather see a 2nd line center or top 3 d man instead.
- Scott1977

The talk about getting him back may be the result of some front office genius finally figuring out that 88 might not want to stick around on a sunk ship. The trend for a long time has been to dump the guys with talent for little or no return. For example the writers in Washington said that Kempny for a 4th was the most one sided trade in team history. The story in Arizona was how the team fleeced the Blackhawks and on and on and on. I'm sure guys like Kane would like to know how much more damage this ongoing trend will deliver before there is a light at the end of the tunnel with a much needed change in mgt.

So how many guys do you have to draft before you get a Panarin? 200? 300? Some teams never get one. Draft picks are only draft picks, they are not NHLers. We have documented plenty of NHL first round failures around here.
- Savoy

It is true there have been a lot first round failures but contrary to your belief, it wasn't under Stan's watch.

Lil' Artie was fun to watch and may go down as the second most exciting player (after Savvy who was way more exciting to watch) to never win or contribute to a Cup in Chicago.

The talk about getting him back may be the result of some front office genius finally figuring out that 88 might not want to stick around on a sunk ship. The trend for a long time has been to dump the guys with talent for little or no return. For example the writers in Washington said that Kempny for a 4th was the most one sided trade in team history. The story in Arizona was how the team fleeced the Blackhawks and on and on and on. I'm sure guys like Kane would like to know how much more damage this ongoing trend will deliver before there is a light at the end of the tunnel with a much needed change in mgt.
- Savoy

Pretty sure it was a 3rd.

Panarin is probably going to want $9'ish for his next deal. Based on his regular season numbers he's earned it and I hope the Hawks look elsewhere.

Richard Panik Pleads Guilty To Criminal Trespass: via TMZ, Arizona Coyotes winger Richard Panik pled guilty to criminal trespass on Wednesday stemming from an incident where he allegedly drunkenly refused to leave a Scottsdale bar. The Scottsdale Police.

http://m.tmz.com/#!2018/09/05/nhl-arizona-coyotes-richard-panik-guilty-trespass/

It is true there have been a lot first round failures but contrary to your belief, it wasn't under Stan's watch.

Lil' Artie was fun to watch and may go down as the second most exciting player (after Savvy who was way more exciting to watch) to never win or contribute to a Cup in Chicago.
- HawkintheD

First round failures league wide not just here, it's always been that way. Reduces the value of a draft pick to not a player but only a potential player. Panarin is the real deal just ask Kane. Anyhow the point is that anybody can get traded. What counts is what you get back or in our case fail to get back. 64 point TT was a throw in to Carolina for nothing, salary relief then squandered. A 64 point player gone for zip. How many more of these mgt disasters would you like to hear about?

The talk about getting him back may be the result of some front office genius finally figuring out that 88 might not want to stick around on a sunk ship. The trend for a long time has been to dump the guys with talent for little or no return. For example the writers in Washington said that Kempny for a 4th was the most one sided trade in team history. The story in Arizona was how the team fleeced the Blackhawks and on and on and on. I'm sure guys like Kane would like to know how much more damage this ongoing trend will deliver before there is a light at the end of the tunnel with a much needed change in mgt.
- Savoy

The writers said that Kempny for a pick was one sided because he filled a need for the Caps, not because he was a great player (not to mention, we have no idea yet how that pick will pan out). He was good for them, but nothing spectacular. He also suffered from the same lapses there as he did here. Kempny is what he is a good depth defenseman. At his best he is a 3-5 d-man.

How have the players that went to AZ fared? Panik (same enigma he was here), Hjalmarsson is not near the player he once was (as evidenced by the last couple of years here and last year in AZ). We had no control over Hossa retiring. So, you either deal with almost $6M in dead cap (because you can't really use it until the year starts) or you package it with an asset to open it up.

Look, I'm with you on the Seabrook contract. Should have been 3 years max and prove it contracts after that if you wanted to keep him around. There are also a number of other moves and signings that irritate me. They did what they thought would be best for the team with Panarin. We lost a good player and got a good one back. Judge them at the end of each year. You'll save yourself from pulling out your hair.

Brown? HOF? C'MON!

I would also strongly question Carter as a potential HOF'er. Carter has 672 points in 904 games and Patrick Sharp has 628 in 939 games. Fairly close - would you consider Sharp a HOF'er? I wouldn't.

Kopitar, Doughty and Quick all have a pretty good shot at the HOF.
- EbonyRaptor

Some would say brown being the key words there. I basically disagreed with it.

Honestly, I thought carter had more points than that. So no I don’t believe either should be voted in (sharp/carter).

The talk about getting him back may be the result of some front office genius finally figuring out that 88 might not want to stick around on a sunk ship. The trend for a long time has been to dump the guys with talent for little or no return. For example the writers in Washington said that Kempny for a 4th was the most one sided trade in team history. The story in Arizona was how the team fleeced the Blackhawks and on and on and on. I'm sure guys like Kane would like to know how much more damage this ongoing trend will deliver before there is a light at the end of the tunnel with a much needed change in mgt.
- Savoy

I fo not believe that the trend under Bowman is automatically get rid of guys with talent for no return. Sure to some extent this played out before Stan took the helm. But now you have to look at the factors which were not so heavily in play, so to speak, as they have been the past few years.

The too large payout to Toews, Keith, Seabrook came about after they "earned it" with Stanley Cups. It may be said too much money was given in this new contracts to those core players. Sharo, too. But you cannot come down too hard since they won three Cups. I happen to believe that Toews and Sharp got too much. You should have figured that Toews might break down, especially with fewer grit and toughness guys around each year. Toews was too unfairly pounded and whacked because Bowman doesn't believe in retaining support players who would command respect by whacking the other teams star players.

This starts to get into a segway about Bowman adding barely enough toughness with late round picks and some of his other players merely step up when the going is toughest - meaning playoffs and Bickel is a good example.

But with the salary cap and Cups comes a necessity to manage your cap space better. And actually.the timing was right to move Sharp. There was a TT sighting that purported wherein he actually worked out harder, is stronger but still the same type player whom does like/avoid physical body contact indication in his time here that he could succeed long term when play gets tough.

It is just incorrect to say the team gives away too talent for little in return even regarding Panarin.How could his salary get slotted in?

The talk about getting him back may be the result of some front office genius finally figuring out that 88 might not want to stick around on a sunk ship. The trend for a long time has been to dump the guys with talent for little or no return. For example the writers in Washington said that Kempny for a 4th was the most one sided trade in team history. The story in Arizona was how the team fleeced the Blackhawks and on and on and on. I'm sure guys like Kane would like to know how much more damage this ongoing trend will deliver before there is a light at the end of the tunnel with a much needed change in mgt.
- Savoy

I honestly think that if the Caps hadn’t won the cup their view of that Kempny trade may be much less favorable. He was a bit Jeckle and Hyde in the playoffs, because for all the good plays he made, he also had some serious stumbles. I can’t remember which game, but I seem to remember him getting turnstiled for a game wining goal.

All’s well that ends well For the Caps I guess, but I still don’t think he’s any great loss.

Some would say brown being the key words there. I basically disagreed with it.

Honestly, I thought carter had more points than that. So no I don’t believe either should be voted in (sharp/carter).
- KINGS67

Out of the Cup winning core from the Hawks I think Kane and Keith are getting in without too much question. Toews has gone from certain to less than certain with the way he's tailed off over the last 3 seasons. Hossa should get in but not guaranteed. Seabrook - no. Sharp - no. Crawford - maybe if he returns to form for a couple more years but probably not if he doesn't.

Just my two cents.

First round failures league wide not just here, it's always been that way. Reduces the value of a draft pick to not a player but only a potential player. Panarin is the real deal just ask Kane. Anyhow the point is that anybody can get traded. What counts is what you get back or in our case fail to get back. 64 point TT was a throw in to Carolina for nothing, salary relief then squandered. A 64 point player gone for zip. How many more of these mgt disasters would you like to hear about?
- Savoy

I've heard them, mostly out of context from you and others who seem completely underwhelmed by 3 Cup wins for this team.

Keep crying about what could have been instead of what actually happened. Cheers!

I honestly think that if the Caps hadn’t won the cup their view of that Kempny trade may be much less favorable. He was a bit Jeckle and Hyde in the playoffs, because for all the good plays he made, he also had some serious stumbles. I can’t remember which game, but I seem to remember him getting turnstiled for a game wining goal.

All’s well that ends well For the Caps I guess, but I still don’t think he’s any great loss.
- Ogilthorpe2

Team on the verge of competing for a cup pay more for anyone with slight chance of help at a blue line. Case in point our commander-in-chief paying 2 seconds for Kimmo Timmonen. Was Kimmo really offer more than Kempny, after resting for a few months with medical condition?

I've heard them, mostly out of context from you and others who seem completely underwhelmed by 3 Cup wins for this team.

Keep crying about what could have been instead of what actually happened. Cheers!
- HawkintheD

For someone so willing to give Bowman and Q a free pass for past deeds, can the same be said for essentially any job? If the #1 Sales Rep from 2010, 2013, and 2015 drastically fell to LAST PLACE for 2018, and had not been a Top rep since 2015, he would be on the hot seat and or fired.

Yes, the Cups were an unbelievable ride and something that rarely happens in pro sport...so StanBo and Q got last year as a free pass. However, they will/should be fired (I'm guessing at least Q will be the scapegoat), if the Hawks start out with a 0.25 win % the first 15-20 games (which is a very real possibility with this Defense and Goalie situation).

There is no reason to think that, even if they never lifted another Cup, the Hawks couldn't have had a Lidstrom-era Detroit run of competitiveness and playoff-births with better trades, drafting, and cap managment/contracts.... Bowman's job is to win AND ice an ENTERTAINING product. I hope Stan Bowman is the guy to build a yearly winning team out of the ashes of destruction (he inflicted) of the roster, but I'm not holding my breath. Q can only do so much with a team of AHLers and Euro signings while superstar level cap hits Seabrook and Toews rest on their laurels, while performing like depth players.

Either way, I will still watch almost every game this year, and hope for the best.

Richard Panik Pleads Guilty To Criminal Trespass: via TMZ, Arizona Coyotes winger Richard Panik pled guilty to criminal trespass on Wednesday stemming from an incident where he allegedly drunkenly refused to leave a Scottsdale bar. The Scottsdale Police.

http://m.tmz.com/#!2018/09/05/nhl-arizona-coyotes-richard-panik-guilty-trespass/
- walleyeb1

But his analytics and corsi were off the chart at this incident , just ask Tanner.

They've done a good job finding goalies. Crow is one of the leagues best but I think they have a pretty good track record of finding guys that get the job done. Waite is like the Don Cooper of goalies so that isn't a huge concern.

Biggest weakness the last 3 years has been gap control through the neutral zone as a product of disorganized \ uncommitted \ lackluster \ scared forcheck and being unable to pick up loose pucks in their own zone and successfully and quickly transition the other way.

You'd hope some of the smaller, heady players that they have picked up can use their quickness and smarts to their advantage to create more turnovers and drive the puck the other direction.

If they can do that at a rate 70% as efficient as the 2010 team the goaltending won't matter.
- fattybeef

Nalimov with his KHL debut today: stopped 29 of 31 shots but lost 2-1. He gave up a power play goal late in the 3rd to tie the game at 1-1 and then gave up the GWG in OT. Played well.

Found this interesting:

Saad-Toews-Kane

231 5v5 minutes together
62.40 CF%
12 goals for and 10 allowed
61.68% high danger chances for
61.51% scoring chances for
68.54% offensive zone faceoff%

Saad-Schmaltz-Kane

177 5v5 minutes together
59.40 CF%
9 goals for and 5 allowed
56.15% high danger chances for
57.52% scoring chances for
83.90 offensive zone faceoff%

Toews-DeBrincat (not accounting for 3rd linemate)

361 5v5 minutes together
64.09 CF%
26 goals for and 13 allowed
52.12% high danger chances for
64.46% scoring chances for
68.03 offensive zone faceoff%

Schmaltz-DeBrincat (not accounting for 3rd linemate)

259 5v5 minutes together
57.43 CF%
16 goals for and 13 allowed
42.86% high danger chances for
54.67% scoring chances for
71.33 offensive zone faceoff%

For someone so willing to give Bowman and Q a free pass for past deeds, can the same be said for essentially any job? If the #1 Sales Rep from 2010, 2013, and 2015 drastically fell to LAST PLACE for 2018, and had not been a Top rep since 2015, he would be on the hot seat and or fired.

Yes, the Cups were an unbelievable ride and something that rarely happens in pro sport...so StanBo and Q got last year as a free pass. However, they will/should be fired (I'm guessing at least Q will be the scapegoat), if the Hawks start out with a 0.25 win % the first 15-20 games (which is a very real possibility with this Defense and Goalie situation).

There is no reason to think that, even if they never lifted another Cup, the Hawks couldn't have had a Lidstrom-era Detroit run of competitiveness and playoff-births with better trades, drafting, and cap managment/contracts.... Bowman's job is to win AND ice an ENTERTAINING product. I hope Stan Bowman is the guy to build a yearly winning team out of the ashes of destruction (he inflicted) of the roster, but I'm not holding my breath. Q can only do so much with a team of AHLers and Euro signings while superstar level cap hits Seabrook and Toews rest on their laurels, while performing like depth players.

Either way, I will still watch almost every game this year, and hope for the best.
- EnzoD

Most of Detroit’s glory years took place in the non-salary cap era...that sort of run will likely never happen again.

For someone so willing to give Bowman and Q a free pass for past deeds, can the same be said for essentially any job? If the #1 Sales Rep from 2010, 2013, and 2015 drastically fell to LAST PLACE for 2018, and had not been a Top rep since 2015, he would be on the hot seat and or fired.

Yes, the Cups were an unbelievable ride and something that rarely happens in pro sport...so StanBo and Q got last year as a free pass. However, they will/should be fired (I'm guessing at least Q will be the scapegoat), if the Hawks start out with a 0.25 win % the first 15-20 games (which is a very real possibility with this Defense and Goalie situation).

There is no reason to think that, even if they never lifted another Cup, the Hawks couldn't have had a Lidstrom-era Detroit run of competitiveness and playoff-births with better trades, drafting, and cap managment/contracts.... Bowman's job is to win AND ice an ENTERTAINING product. I hope Stan Bowman is the guy to build a yearly winning team out of the ashes of destruction (he inflicted) of the roster, but I'm not holding my breath. Q can only do so much with a team of AHLers and Euro signings while superstar level cap hits Seabrook and Toews rest on their laurels, while performing like depth players.

Either way, I will still watch almost every game this year, and hope for the best.
- EnzoD

I'm in sales so I know how that racket works. What you say could/could not be true given the gig and set of circumstances.

I've said it before and will again. I'm not giving them a free pass for the past few years. You misunderstand in the sense that, as someone who waited 40 years to win something, I'm actually fairly content.

Would I like for them to win more? Hell yes!

But I'm also eternally grateful for them giving me a lot of hockey to enjoy during the run.

Their run buys them time. Whether you like it or not it does. Ken Holland's last Cup wn was in 2008 and he's still at the helm for Detroit so it's not exactly unprecedented.

I have no issue if the team falls flat again that Q (for sure) and likely Stan should be held accountable and relieved of duties.

I thought Q should have been put out to pasture this past year as the team often looked unprepared to start games. I think Q's a good coach but tend to agree with 6628, in that, if Q were a world beater, he'd do it with the hand he's dealt. I thought he deserved a lot of credit for the regular season in 16/17, but unfortunately the team looked completely unprepared for the playoffs vs the Preds.

I beg to differ with you. LA can certainly match that talent (possible HOFers) Kopitar Doughty Quick Carter and some say Brown (not so sure)
- KINGS67

I will give you the first three but then Carter is a maybe a Brown a definite NO.

Look who is visiting Chicago. Let the speculation fly.



I’d guess he is simply in town to visit his good friends but maybe Stan asked him to stop by.
- pdx2ord

It'd be collusion if it was even hinted at that Bowman talked to Panarin at this point. Same with Yzerman when Panarin was in Tampa the other week meeting up with their Russians.

Players, however, can talk all they want - the Tampa Russians literally tweeted they were showing Panarin how great it would be to play in Tampa with the sun and the beaches. I hope Kane was still Chicago at this point because he usually goes to Florida for Belfry's camp around this time, I think. Anisimov is still in Russian, for sure, and I don't think any of the other guys who hang around Chicago for the summer were on the team when he was.

Look who is visiting Chicago. Let the speculation fly.



I’d guess he is simply in town to visit his good friends but maybe Stan asked him to stop by.
- pdx2ord

It'd be collusion if it was even hinted at that Bowman talked to Panarin at this point. Same with Yzerman when Panarin was in Tampa the other week meeting up with their Russians.

Players, however, can talk all they want - the Tampa Russians literally tweeted they were showing Panarin how great it would be to play in Tampa with the sun and the beaches. I hope Kane was still Chicago at this point because he usually goes to Florida for Belfry's camp around this time, I think. Anisimov is still in Russian, for sure, and I don't think any of the other guys who hang around Chicago for the summer were on the team when he was.

Good analysis of a team weakness that needs to be addressed so that the Hawks are more competitive game in and game out. I would also add improvement in puck support and each player on the ice knowing what they need to do not only in the immediate moment but in possible scenarios if X were to happen or Y were to happen. Make smart, simple fundamental plays as well.
- AEL_Fox

Biggest weakness the last 3 years has been gap control through the neutral zone as a product of disorganized \ uncommitted \ lackluster \ scared forcheck and being unable to pick up loose pucks in their own zone and successfully and quickly transition the other way.


I would say the bad gap control is a by product of a couple of reasons: turnovers at the O blue line, the D not supporting the O like a 5 man cohesive unit, all 3 F's caught below the circles sometimes all 3F behind the net, and losing 50/50 puck/board battles either high in O zone or in neutral zone

The writers said that Kempny for a pick was one sided because he filled a need for the Caps, not because he was a great player (not to mention, we have no idea yet how that pick will pan out). He was good for them, but nothing spectacular. He also suffered from the same lapses there as he did here. Kempny is what he is a good depth defenseman. At his best he is a 3-5 d-man.

How have the players that went to AZ fared? Panik (same enigma he was here), Hjalmarsson is not near the player he once was (as evidenced by the last couple of years here and last year in AZ). We had no control over Hossa retiring. So, you either deal with almost $6M in dead cap (because you can't really use it until the year starts) or you package it with an asset to open it up.

Look, I'm with you on the Seabrook contract. Should have been 3 years max and prove it contracts after that if you wanted to keep him around. There are also a number of other moves and signings that irritate me. They did what they thought would be best for the team with Panarin. We lost a good player and got a good one back. Judge them at the end of each year. You'll save yourself from pulling out your hair.
- Chunk

Spot on with your assessment of Kempny and yes a void was definitely filled. I never saw a D man fall some many times transitioning from forward to backwards with bad crossovers and hip movement. He was good and 3-6 slot is spot on for Kempny!

First round failures league wide not just here, it's always been that way. Reduces the value of a draft pick to not a player but only a potential player. Panarin is the real deal just ask Kane. Anyhow the point is that anybody can get traded. What counts is what you get back or in our case fail to get back. 64 point TT was a throw in to Carolina for nothing, salary relief then squandered. A 64 point player gone for zip. How many more of these mgt disasters would you like to hear about?
- Savoy

We got ADB and the next Russian AA for TT...not exactly nothing.