All of those guys were far better skaters than Edsjell. I am not just talking speed. You need quickness to get to the open spots. Edsjell just doesn't have it. Add in his balance is pretty bad and he is easily knock off stride.

DinkyCat is a way better skater than the perception. IMO
- Elbows15

I probably was unclear in my post. I was making two separate and distinct points.
1) Asking for NHL comparables to Ejdsell
2) I was just listing Kane, Sharp, Larmer, Panarin as recent shooters / scorers / snipers and not comparing their overall game or skating to Ejdsell. The Hawks have not had many shooters/scorers/snipers. They are hard to find. If Ejdsel is a sniper he has some value. He may be slow. But he has scored every where he has played and I think he can score in the NHL.

I also dispute the need for quickness or speed to get to the open spot, especially on the PP. A lot of that is vision.

Sorry. I like most of your posts (agree with some and disagree with some) , but I have to call you on this one. Toews, Keith and Seabs have regressed, but excluding salary ......
1)- Name 10 teams that would not take Toews as their 2nd line center.
2)- Name the teams with 3 better defenders than Keith.
3)- Name the teams with 5 better defenders than Seabs.

My expectations are moderate. I do not mind listening to opinions that have lower (or higher) expectations. But I do tire of seeing the same posts from the same people over and over and over.
- -Doh-

1) Toronto, Boston, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Edmonton, LA Kings, Winnipeg, Philly, St Louis, Vegas, Capitals ..there's 11

2) Nashville, Winnipeg, Tampa, Anaheim, Carolina, Boston, Calgary, St. Louis, LA Kings

3) Every NHL team?


EDIT: if I modify my comment to say that Keith is best as a 2nd pair dman, that would qualify for probably 25 teams that have 2 defenders that TODAY are better than Duncan.

Excellent post. Here is hoping some younger, quicker D-men additions will allow Seabrook to play in certain situations where he can succeed. His contract notwithstanding, #7 just can't be deployed in all situations anymore, that is painfully obvious to all but the most deluded. However, he can be useful in the right spots, the right moments, he's a superb leader and a warrior, which is useful to teams either running for the gold or rebuilding.
- kwolf68

Thanks.....and if we hold Babcock high in regards to what he is as coach....let go back to the 2010 Olympic tournament.

Toews was the 3rd line center
Seabrook was their 7th d man, and I'm 99.9% sure he didn't skate a second in the gold medal game vs the USA

Oh well....fun debate.

- EnzoD

Kinda like your awesome and hilarious Seabrook trade proposals? You're a dumbpoop

Kinda like your awesome and hilarious Seabrook trade proposals? You're a dumbpoop
- GPHawksfan

you seem thirsty....here's some more of your favorite beverage

1) Toronto, Boston, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Edmonton, LA Kings, Winnipeg, Philly, St Louis, Vegas, Capitals ..there's 11

2) Nashville, Winnipeg, Tampa, Anaheim, Carolina, Boston, Calgary, St. Louis, LA Kings

3) Every NHL team?
- EnzoD

1) You really wouldn't take Toews over Krejic, Little, and Stastny? I don't agree with that at all. Even in his down years, he's been better than most of those guys and is younger than two of them.

Edmonton would only count if Draisaitl actually plays centers, but he spent a lot of his time as wing with McDavid. And Patrick Nolan might be amazing eventually but idk about now (plus Couturier had his first break out season where he got more than 40 points, let's see if that's consistent).

I'd give you the others because they have such strong 1-2 punches. Though for a few, this season will be their first together so it'll be interesting to see how it works out for them.


2) Who are the 3 better d-men on some of those teams than Keith? I can think of maybe two for some but not 3. And honestly, in some of those cases, Keith would still be on the top pair imo.

Anaheim: I could see some arguments for Lindholm and Fowler, sure, and I guess Manson as a one day thing. Idk about right now.

Boston: McAvoy and... who? I would definitely not take Chara over Keith and Krug is nice but not elite.

Calgary: Giordano is all I can think of. Cause no to Hamonic or Brodie being better and Hanafin hasn't even proven he can be more than a very good bottom pairing player (though he is young).

Carolina: This is interesting because they have some great up and coming talent but they were the epitome of "good on paper, bad in practice" last season. Do really lik e Slavin, Pesce, and Hamilton though and the latter + De Haan should add some defensive stability. I could see this one.

LA Kings: Doughty, sure. Martinez is underrated so maybe you squeak him above Keith but who else? Not Muzzin or Phaneuf, surely.

Nashville: Josi, Subban, Ekholm, and Ellis are the best top 4 in the league imo. So nods.

St. Louis: Pietrangelo and Parayko are the only two stand out guys. Their group as a whole is pretty balanced but they don't have the top class top 4 I think they had in the past.

Winnipeg: Trouba and Buff are the only two guys on there that are impact top pair players. Morrissey might get there some day, but surely you wouldn't take Chiarot or Myers over Keith? I wouldn't take Buff over Keith either, but I can see why some would.

One I think you did miss that maybe has an argument is Tampa: Hedman, McDonagh, and Stralman are all excellent. Idk if Keith would edge out the latter two or not tbh - maybe Stralman but their roles are different.

3) I think you're overestimating a lot of teams bottom pairings and/or #6s but I'm not one that argues Seabrook is definitively a top 4. I think he can be a really good #5 who slots up when needed, though.

Thanks.....and if we hold Babcock high in regards to what he is as coach....let go back to the 2010 Olympic tournament.

Toews was the 3rd line center
Seabrook was their 7th d man, and I'm 99.9% sure he didn't skate a second in the gold medal game vs the USA

Oh well....fun debate.
- SteveRain

Uh Toews was the 2nd center in terms of TOI for Canada in 2010 (behind Crosby) and then led them in points, which is why he won best forward award. Nash and Marleau are the only other forwards to have more TOI than him as well, in addition to Crosby. Babcock even played him more and more as the tournament went on, he was doing so well.

You might be thinking of 2014 when Toews was listed on a lot of sites as 3C (often with Marleau-Carter on more of a checking line), but he was was actually 1st in TOI on the team for forwards/centers (104 minutes with Crosby just below at at 98 and Getzlaf at 89). He was actually 5th highest TOI on the team behind only the top 4 defenders. This was the tournament that it became really obvious that Babcock trusted him, maybe beyond any other forward on the team.

And even at the WCOH in 2016, Toews was the top TOI forward/center for Canada as well even though, again, he was often listed as 3C. Kind of shows maybe don't look at line written by beats and bloggers on the internet but on how Babcock actually uses his players. Just to note, Toews was 2nd in TOI behind Tavares in the round robin stage and behind Bergeron in the elimination stage, but was over them for the whole tournament (plus, they both played wing).

And come on, everyone know Babcock love Toews. He practically raves about Toews whenever he's mentioned, it's a running joke whenever Chicago-Detroit used to met up and still is when Chicago-Toronto do.

He said this just last season: "All Jonathan Toews does is make everybody he plays with better." and “(The Blackhawks) don’t win any of their championships without that guy. He does the right (thing) every single day. The bigger the day, the bigger the moment, the better he plays.”

And before the WCOH about Toews: “I think he’s a conscience for your team. He's a real good man, a real good leader, a real good person and a great player.”

You could find a ton of quotes just like that from Babcock.

I'm not arguing that Toews is even on the level he was in the tournaments or anything, I just think it's a little weird to say he was 3C when he was one of the top players, if not the top player, in terms of actual minutes in all of them. But yes, it's a fun debate.

All of those guys were far better skaters than Edsjell. I am not just talking speed. You need quickness to get to the open spots. Edsjell just doesn't have it. Add in his balance is pretty bad and he is easily knock off stride.

DinkyCat is a way better skater than the perception. IMO
- Elbows15

You've noted a few times about Ejdsell's skating. Even with that, several teams pursued him. He also produced in the AHL playoffs and seems to be able to get into position to score. There are a number of articles on him stating that he has been working on his skating for the past three years and his coaches have noticed an improvement.

I'm not saying he's going to be the key to a cup run, but if he can be a productive part, that's a positive in my book.

You've noted a few times about Ejdsell's skating. Even with that, several teams pursued him. He also produced in the AHL playoffs and seems to be able to get into position to score. There are a number of articles on him stating that he has been working on his skating for the past three years and his coaches have noticed an improvement.

I'm not saying he's going to be the key to a cup run, but if he can be a productive part, that's a positive in my book.
- Chunk

A lot of teams pursued Tikhonov and Plotnikov, and they didn't work out in the NHL.

There is a possibility that Edjsell will be like Pulkkinen, who was once a highly regarded prospect. Did great in the Finnish leagues and produced well in the AHL because he had a great shot, but just didn't have the skating for the NHL. Now, Edjsell has something Pulkkinen didn't which is size which is something that can help a player carve out a niche. He's not all that physical but he knows how to use his body for puck protection and suck.

I'm trying to keep an open mind on Edjsell because his hands really are great but skating/speed is so important in the NHL today. Fingers cross he works out cause that'd be really nice.

Thanks.....and if we hold Babcock high in regards to what he is as coach....let go back to the 2010 Olympic tournament.

Toews was the 3rd line center
Seabrook was their 7th d man, and I'm 99.9% sure he didn't skate a second in the gold medal game vs the USA

Oh well....fun debate.
- SteveRain

Irrelevant. Too long ago. Their play has declined since then. No dispute. But if you want to go down that road then saying Toews was/is the 3rd best center in Canada and Seabs the 7th best defender in Canada is far different than saying Toews would not be the 1st or 2nd line center for 10 teams and Seabs would not be a top 5 defender for most teams.

1) You really wouldn't take Toews over Krejic, Little, and Stastny? I don't agree with that at all. Even in his down years, he's been better than most of those guys and is younger than two of them.

Edmonton would only count if Draisaitl actually plays centers, but he spent a lot of his time as wing with McDavid. And Patrick Nolan might be amazing eventually but idk about now (plus Couturier had his first break out season where he got more than 40 points, let's see if that's consistent).

I'd give you the others because they have such strong 1-2 punches. Though for a few, this season will be their first together so it'll be interesting to see how it works out for them.


2) Who are the 3 better d-men on some of those teams than Keith? I can think of maybe two for some but not 3. And honestly, in some of those cases, Keith would still be on the top pair imo.

Anaheim: I could see some arguments for Lindholm and Fowler, sure, and I guess Manson as a one day thing. Idk about right now.

Boston: McAvoy and... who? I would definitely not take Chara over Keith and Krug is nice but not elite.

Calgary: Giordano is all I can think of. Cause no to Hamonic or Brodie being better and Hanafin hasn't even proven he can be more than a very good bottom pairing player (though he is young).

Carolina: This is interesting because they have some great up and coming talent but they were the epitome of "good on paper, bad in practice" last season. Do really lik e Slavin, Pesce, and Hamilton though and the latter + De Haan should add some defensive stability. I could see this one.

LA Kings: Doughty, sure. Martinez is underrated so maybe you squeak him above Keith but who else? Not Muzzin or Phaneuf, surely.

Nashville: Josi, Subban, Ekholm, and Ellis are the best top 4 in the league imo. So nods.

St. Louis: Pietrangelo and Parayko are the only two stand out guys. Their group as a whole is pretty balanced but they don't have the top class top 4 I think they had in the past.

Winnipeg: Trouba and Buff are the only two guys on there that are impact top pair players. Morrissey might get there some day, but surely you wouldn't take Chiarot or Myers over Keith? I wouldn't take Buff over Keith either, but I can see why some would.

One I think you did miss that maybe has an argument is Tampa: Hedman, McDonagh, and Stralman are all excellent. Idk if Keith would edge out the latter two or not tbh - maybe Stralman but their roles are different.

3) I think you're overestimating a lot of teams bottom pairings and/or #6s but I'm not one that argues Seabrook is definitively a top 4. I think he can be a really good #5 who slots up when needed, though.
- L_B_R

Thank you fair lady. I totally agree.

People arguing that Seabrook is a Top4 D on a contending team. Based on what? What he did 6 years ago or last year? Based on hopes, dreams and blind faith. Pass me the bible, I'll take a shot.

Seabrook look liked pure toast last year, consistently walked wide, is slow footed and slow reacting, plays with little edge anymore. This is the result of miles and miles and miles of wonderful play, championship level moxie. But at some point it's done. Seabrook looks absolutely done to me. At best he is a bottom 6 guy, don't have him on the ice anywhere near young, fast skilled players. Match him against grinders and goons, fringe bottom 6 wingers and scrubs. Maybe let him play some PP, but overall the mighty Seabs reigns no more.

Could he return to form? A slimmer, trimmer, quicker and snappier #7? Maybe. Hell, he doesn't really hit much anymore, may as well become a faster skating D-man. It'd be like a baseball pitcher who used to be a power pitcher loses his stuff and comes back as a reasonably successful junk baller. That's what Seabrook needs to do, reinvent himself, because the jalopy that was on the ice wearing #7 last year was painfully sad to watch.
- kwolf68

I agree with this 100%.

NHLNetwork airing Stanley Cup 2015 game 6 at 4:00 Central Time.

I agree with this 100%.
- onehundredlevel

Seabs play has fallen off some for sure.
But compare him to other 2nd pairing defenders.
TOI 20:12
+/- minus 3 (on a mediocre team with questionable goaltending)
7G 19A
85 hits
175 blocked shots

Those are 4th defender / 2nd pairing numbers on a high % of NHL teams.

Cup clinching game 6 vs. TB on NHL Network right now. Good Times!

Got to wonder if he's frustrated with management and tried to make moves and was vetoed.

Sure he will land back in Detroit at some point.
- SteveRain

Probably right on here. I wonder if he has a warm and friendly in Scotty Bowman as well ?? Hmmmmmmmmmm !!
Nah.....not a chance.

I probably was unclear in my post. I was making two separate and distinct points.
1) Asking for NHL comparables to Ejdsell
2) I was just listing Kane, Sharp, Larmer, Panarin as recent shooters / scorers / snipers and not comparing their overall game or skating to Ejdsell. The Hawks have not had many shooters/scorers/snipers. They are hard to find. If Ejdsel is a sniper he has some value. He may be slow. But he has scored every where he has played and I think he can score in the NHL.

I also dispute the need for quickness or speed to get to the open spot, especially on the PP. A lot of that is vision.
- -Doh-

Dispute it all you want. Seeing the open ice is important. Having the quickness to get there in TIME is equally important. He just doesn't have it. The Hawks need more from him than a PP specialist. He will be a liability in any type of transition game, which the NHL has become more of every year.

Can they get Brad Richards back? He looks really good between Kane & Saad

You've noted a few times about Ejdsell's skating. Even with that, several teams pursued him. He also produced in the AHL playoffs and seems to be able to get into position to score. There are a number of articles on him stating that he has been working on his skating for the past three years and his coaches have noticed an improvement.

I'm not saying he's going to be the key to a cup run, but if he can be a productive part, that's a positive in my book.
- Chunk

I would like the guy to be productive. I don't see it. His skating is that terrible.
And teams make mistakes all the time. Like thinking Brandon Manning is a useful player.

Thanks.....and if we hold Babcock high in regards to what he is as coach....let go back to the 2010 Olympic tournament.

Toews was the 3rd line center
Seabrook was their 7th d man, and I'm 99.9% sure he didn't skate a second in the gold medal game vs the USA

Oh well....fun debate.
- SteveRain

good lord.

Anyone have a free stream of the Hawks prospect game??

Anyone have a free stream of the Hawks prospect game??
- EnzoD

Not sure if you really want to watch, losing 2-0.

https://www.nhl.com/black...c-300049000?tid=298248792

Not sure if you really want to watch, losing 2-0.

https://www.nhl.com/black...c-300049000?tid=298248792
- walleyeb1

Gracias!!

Gracias!!
- EnzoD

Por nada!

Not sure if you really want to watch, losing 2-0.

https://www.nhl.com/black...c-300049000?tid=298248792
- walleyeb1

Bad start. Eeek.