Nylander's Agent: My client wants 8 million or I don't show up to camp.

Dubas: Let me get Mr Dorion or Mr. Bergevin or Mr. Lamoriello or Mr. Waddell on the line and see if we can't arrange for him to go to a situation he might like better.

If Sanheim was more established like Provorov (who'd I'd want if he was a RHD) then maybe that would make sense. But at this point, it'd have to be a lot more than just Sanheim. Konecny would have to also be included, as would another piece like Scott Laughton or Wayne Simmons if he can't be re-signed.

And even then, it'd be Nylander for three pieces the Leafs don't really need which is a top pairing RHD. Even Gostisbehere is a meh return because he's like Gardiner in a lot of ways. I don't see there being much the Flyers have to offer for Nylander.
- Unholy_Goalie

So you're saying that you don't want Provorov because he's a lefty? No room on the Leafs blueline for a player as good as Provorov?

Asking for Sanheim, Konency, and possibly Simmonds is an absurd asking price. Nylander is not that good. As for the Flyers not having much to offer, they'd never offer that.

So you're saying that you don't want Provorov because he's a lefty? No room on the Leafs blueline for a player as good as Provorov?

Asking for Sanheim, Konency, and possibly Simmonds is an absurd asking price. Nylander is not that good. As for the Flyers not having much to offer, they'd never offer that.
- MJL

agreed

... except that I don't think anyone said we didn't *want* Provorov.

With shootouts, the Leafs tied with Washington for the 6th most points.

Take away shootout wins, the Leafs would’ve finished tied for 7th in points with Pittsburgh and Minnesota.


Wow...what a drop...clearly it was just the shootout wins that carried the Leafs...
- Steven_Seagull

That's actually wrong. They were 10th in ROW with 42 ROW. Washington had 46 ROW.

Leafs were 7-2 in the SO.

So you're saying that you don't want Provorov because he's a lefty? No room on the Leafs blueline for a player as good as Provorov?

Asking for Sanheim, Konency, and possibly Simmonds is an absurd asking price. Nylander is not that good. As for the Flyers not having much to offer, they'd never offer that.
- MJL

I'm saying Nylander is an asset that could bring you a top pair RHD (think Seth Jones for Johansen) so trading him for a LHD would be kind of a waste of an asset because you'd be acquiring something you don't need as bad. Not to say Provorov isn't a good player, he's just not the right piece you'd want in return for Nylander considering what the team needs.

Sanheim has proven (frank) all, Konency doesn't have a high ceiling and Simmonds is a pending UFA so he could end up being a rental or overpaid to stay.

Bottom line is, the Flyers don't have what the Leafs need to acquire Nylander.

agreed

... except that I don't think anyone said we didn't *want* Provorov.
- Aetherial

The poster above said he'd want Provorov IF he was RH D.

The poster above said he'd want Provorov IF he was RH D.
- MJL

That's right. It's a matter of moving Nylander for a position they actually need. The Leafs left side is pretty good with Rielly, Gardiner and Dermott. Adding Provorov just doesn't fill the void they need to fill by moving Nylander.

I'm saying Nylander is an asset that could bring you a top pair RHD (think Seth Jones for Johansen) so trading him for a LHD would be kind of a waste of an asset because you'd be acquiring something you don't need as bad. Not to say Provorov isn't a good player, he's just not the right piece you'd want in return for Nylander considering what the team needs.

Sanheim has proven (frank) all, Konency doesn't have a high ceiling and Simmonds is a pending UFA so he could end up being a rental or overpaid to stay.

Bottom line is, the Flyers don't have what the Leafs need to acquire Nylander.
- Unholy_Goalie

I have news for you. I seriously doubt that Nylander could fetch the return of a RH defenseman the quality of Seth Jones. Any GM willing to do so should be fired. Johansen is a center. Nylander is a winger.

Konecny doesn't have a high ceiling? What's your definition of a high ceiling?

Simmonds will have a ton of value as a trade chip if he can show that he is healthy again.

Sanheim has the potential to be a top pairing puck moving defenseman. He may bottom out lower than that but that potential is there.

That's right. It's a matter of moving Nylander for a position they actually need. The Leafs left side is pretty good with Rielly, Gardiner and Dermott. Adding Provorov just doesn't fill the void they need to fill by moving Nylander.
- Unholy_Goalie

Provorov is much better than both Gardiner and Dermott. The Leafs defense could definitely use a 21 year old player who is a pretty sure bet to become #1 NHL defenseman for the next decade plus.

If I was the Leafs GM and was offered Provorov for Nylander, I wouldn't be able to agree fast enough.

I have news for you. I seriously doubt that Nylander could fetch the return of a RH defenseman the quality of Seth Jones. Any GM willing to do so should be fired. Johansen is a center. Nylander is a winger.

Konecny doesn't have a high ceiling? What's your definition of a high ceiling?

Simmonds will have a ton of value as a trade chip if he can show that he is healthy again.

Sanheim has the potential to be a top pairing puck moving defenseman. He may bottom out lower than that but that potential is there.
- MJL

I have news for you; Nylander can be a C and a RW. GMs get fired every year.

Konecny doesn't have the same ceiling that Nylander does. Konecny might reach where Nylander is already playing at (60 points) and Nylander could be an 80 point player. Sanheim is potential, he's proven nothing. If the Leafs are going to trade Nylander, they need a proven RHD, not a hope and a dream. Simmonds is banged up and a pending UFA and likely to be overpaid to re-sign. Not a tremendously appealing piece overall.

So again, the Flyers don't have what the Leafs need to make a deal for Nylander make sense.

The poster above said he'd want Provorov IF he was RH D.
- MJL

in the context of a Nylander trade...

Provorov is much better than both Gardiner and Dermott. The Leafs defense could definitely use a 21 year old player who is a pretty sure bet to become #1 NHL defenseman for the next decade plus.

If I was the Leafs GM and was offered Provorov for Nylander, I wouldn't be able to agree fast enough.
- MJL

He probably is but it doesn't mean he fills the right position to be worth moving Nylander. I don't know how many ways it needs to be explained to you; they need a top pairing RHD. This is like a team needing a C but getting a LW and forcing him to play C. Maybe you have the Leafs confused with the Habs.

Provorov is much better than both Gardiner and Dermott. The Leafs defense could definitely use a 21 year old player who is a pretty sure bet to become #1 NHL defenseman for the next decade plus.

If I was the Leafs GM and was offered Provorov for Nylander, I wouldn't be able to agree fast enough.
- MJL

agreed.

Also... Nobody is saying Nylander fetches Jones. In fact, Johanssen would come nowhere near landing Seth Jones in a trade today.

He was saying Nylander for a top pair RHD.

Honestly, I can't think of who that would be, particularly not in an age range in which the Leafs would be interested.

agreed.

Also... Nobody is saying Nylander fetches Jones. In fact, Johanssen would come nowhere near landing Seth Jones in a trade today.

He was saying Nylander for a top pair RHD.

Honestly, I can't think of who that would be, particularly not in an age range in which the Leafs would be interested.
- Aetherial

And yet, at some point, Johanssen got the Blue Jackets Seth Jones. That's the type of swindling and foresight we need from Dubas to pull off.

Karlsson or Pietrangelo. Possibly Subban. Those are the prime age, under 30 options. Probably have to add to the package but Nylander would be the central piece.

Guys that are in Nylander's age range would be almost too young to be proven enough to be worth rolling the dice on. If you trade Nylander for a Sanheim type, you could get a dud in return.

I have news for you; Nylander can be a C and a RW. GMs get fired every year.


- Unholy_Goalie

Johansen was an established #1 center. Nylander is not established as a center.

Konecny doesn't have the same ceiling that Nylander does. Konecny might reach where Nylander is already playing at (60 points) and Nylander could be an 80 point player. Sanheim is potential, he's proven nothing. If the Leafs are going to trade Nylander, they need a proven RHD, not a hope and a dream. Simmonds is banged up and a pending UFA and likely to be overpaid to re-sign. Not a tremendously appealing piece overall.


- Unholy_Goalie

Konecny doesn't have to have the same ceiling. Doesn't mean his ceiling is not high. He has the potential to be an NHL first line RW.

If the Flyers wind up trading Simmonds and make him available at the trade deadline, teams will be bidding against one another for his services. He was banged up last year. No reason why he won't be healthy and back to being a 30 goal scorer this season. He also brings a ton of intangibles to a team.

The potential of Sanheim gives him very high value as a potential trade chip.

So again, the Flyers don't have what the Leafs need to make a deal for Nylander make sense.
- Unholy_Goalie

Barring salary cap issues, that would be an outstanding return for Nylander. The Flyers wouldn't make that deal in my opinion.

He probably is but it doesn't mean he fills the right position to be worth moving Nylander. I don't know how many ways it needs to be explained to you; they need a top pairing RHD. This is like a team needing a C but getting a LW and forcing him to play C. Maybe you have the Leafs confused with the Habs.
- Unholy_Goalie

That top RH defenseman needs to be available. Good luck with that. If the Leafs put Nylander on the market and the Flyers offered Provorov, the Leafs would jump at it so fast it would make your head spin. You're kidding yourself if you think they wouldn't.

Nylander could not fetch the return of a top pairing RH NHL defenseman unless it was an aging player over 30 and from a team looking to re-tool and get younger.

Johansen was an established #1 center. Nylander is not established as a center.
- MJL

Nylander was better at the same age, he hasn't had the chance yet to prove he's as good or better than Johanssen yet because on the Leafs he doesn't have to play center.

Konecny doesn't have to have the same ceiling. Doesn't mean his ceiling is not high. He has the potential to be an NHL first line RW.

And if Konecny has that potential than Nylander can be an All-Star RW.

If the Flyers wind up trading Simmonds and make him available at the trade deadline, teams will be bidding against one another for his services. He was banged up last year. No reason why he won't be healthy and back to being a 30 goal scorer this season. He also brings a ton of intangibles to a team.

That's all nice and stuff but he'd still be a 30 year old, banged up, pending UFA. Maybe a stupid team would overpay at the deadline but to the Leafs, he's not that appealing. Unless it's as a UFA and he feels like coming home for free and not for Nylander. Maybe he has the same pajamas Tavares had as a child.

The potential of Sanheim gives him very high value as a potential trade chip.

Potential is potential. The Leafs need more than potential, especially for a player who has proven his value, unlike Sanheim who is still very much a question mark.

Barring salary cap issues, that would be an outstanding return for Nylander. The Flyers wouldn't make that deal in my opinion.

For the Nth time, the Flyers don't have what the Leafs need for Nylander. End of story.

That top RH defenseman needs to be available. Good luck with that. If the Leafs put Nylander on the market and the Flyers offered Provorov, the Leafs would jump at it so fast it would make your head spin. You're kidding yourself if you think they wouldn't.

Nylander could not fetch the return of a top pairing RH NHL defenseman unless it was an aging player over 30 and from a team looking to re-tool and get younger.
- MJL

Karlsson is very available. Extremely available.

Provorov wouldn't fill the need the Leafs have. Very good player, but not the right fit.

Players become available at different times for different reasons and if the Leafs have to wait for the right situation to arise, then so be it. There's not a huge rush.

Nylander was better at the same age, he hasn't had the chance yet to prove he's as good or better than Johanssen yet because on the Leafs he doesn't have to play center.


- Unholy_Goalie

Doesn't change the fact that Nylander is not an established NHL center, hence he does not have the value that Johansen had at the time of the deal.

And if Konecny has that potential than Nylander can be an All-Star RW.


- Unholy_Goalie

No one is disputing that Nylander is a better player than Konecny.

That's all nice and stuff but he'd still be a 30 year old, banged up, pending UFA. Maybe a stupid team would overpay at the deadline but to the Leafs, he's not that appealing. Unless it's as a UFA and he feels like coming home for free and not for Nylander. Maybe he has the same pajamas Tavares had as a child.


- Unholy_Goalie

As a team hoping to make a run at the Cup, a player like Simmonds would absolutely have appeal for the Leafs. They may not be willing to pay the cost to acquire him but that doesn't mean he doesn't bring qualities that the could help the Leafs.

Potential is potential. The Leafs need more than potential, especially for a player who has proven his value, unlike Sanheim who is still very much a question mark.


- Unholy_Goalie

Sanheim would be part of a package not the primary part. Like I said, the Flyers wouldn't make that deal. It's too much for Nylander.

For the Nth time, the Flyers don't have what the Leafs need for Nylander. End of story.
- Unholy_Goalie

I think you're dead wrong.

Karlsson is very available. Extremely available.


- Unholy_Goalie

You must have missed this. Karlsson is pretty much in that realm

"Nylander could not fetch the return of a top pairing RH NHL defenseman unless it was an aging player over 30 and from a team looking to re-tool and get younger. He's not available for Nylander straight up.

Provorov wouldn't fill the need the Leafs have. Very good player, but not the right fit.


- Unholy_Goalie

There is no such thing as a 21 year old in the very near future NHL #1 defenseman not being the right fit for any team.

Players become available at different times for different reasons and if the Leafs have to wait for the right situation to arise, then so be it. There's not a huge rush.
- Unholy_Goalie

I agree there's not a rush and a lot of this is hypothetical but getting a legitimate top pairing RH young defenseman for Nylander is a long shot. Which is why if they were offered Provorov, they'd jump at it.

Doesn't change the fact that Nylander is not an established NHL center, hence he does not have the value that Johansen had at the time of the deal.
- MJL

Johansen was older when he was traded so there's still time for Nylander to establish his value further. A scoring winger who can play center still holds value, depending on the team being dealt with.

No one is disputing that Nylander is a better player than Konecny.

Good.

As a team hoping to make a run at the Cup, a player like Simmonds would absolutely have appeal for the Leafs. They may not be willing to pay the cost to acquire him but that doesn't mean he doesn't bring qualities that the could help the Leafs.

Leafs aren't there yet. Trading young assets for a broken, older player when you could sign him for free is stupid.

Sanheim would be part of a package not the primary part. Like I said, the Flyers wouldn't make that deal. It's too much for Nylander.

And he's not good enough to be the primary part and the secondary parts are pretty much irrelevant. Go back to Seth Jones for Johanssen. One for one. One need for one team, one need for another. Trading Nylander for a "potential" and spare parts is a waste of time and assets for the Leafs.

I think you're dead wrong.

Nope.

You must have missed this. Karlsson is pretty much in that realm

"Nylander could not fetch the return of a top pairing RH NHL defenseman unless it was an aging player over 30 and from a team looking to re-tool and get younger. He's not available for Nylander straight up.
- MJL

Karlsson isn't 30. Must have missed that.

There is no such thing as a 21 year old in the very near future NHL #1 defenseman not being the right fit for any team.

Already have Rielly and the left side is fine. Need the right side to be fixed. So there is such a thing, it's just not sinking in for you yet.

I agree there's not a rush and a lot of this is hypothetical but getting a legitimate top pairing RH young defenseman for Nylander is a long shot. Which is why if they were offered Provorov, they'd jump at it.

Nope X 2.

Johansen was older when he was traded so there's still time for Nylander to establish his value further. A scoring winger who can play center still holds value, depending on the team being dealt with.


- Unholy_Goalie

Leafs already had a superstar in Matthews and a very good player in kadri at center. They then signed Taveras. They obviously don't view Nylander as a #1 center and neither would the rest of the league i terms of getting a young top pairing RH dman in return.

Leafs aren't there yet. Trading young assets for a broken, older player when you could sign him for free is stupid.


- Unholy_Goalie

Simmonds would be part of a package, not the main piece.

And he's not good enough to be the primary part and the secondary parts are pretty much irrelevant. Go back to Seth Jones for Johanssen. One for one. One need for one team, one need for another. Trading Nylander for a "potential" and spare parts is a waste of time and assets for the Leafs.


- Unholy_Goalie

I agree that Sanheim is not established enough to be the main piece. In case you haven't noticed, I haven't suggested that the Leafs would agree to that deal hypothetically. What I have said is that the Flyers wouldn't make it.
Nylander is not going to get a defenseman as good as Seth Jones in my opinion. With the exception of the age issue and a team looking to re-tool as I sad previously.

Nope.
- Unholy_Goalie

They absolutely do. Provorov would easily fetch Nylander from the Leafs. Flyers wouldn't do it.

Johansen was older when he was traded so there's still time for Nylander to establish his value further. A scoring winger who can play center still holds value, depending on the team being dealt with.



Good.



Leafs aren't there yet. Trading young assets for a broken, older player when you could sign him for free is stupid.



And he's not good enough to be the primary part and the secondary parts are pretty much irrelevant. Go back to Seth Jones for Johanssen. One for one. One need for one team, one need for another. Trading Nylander for a "potential" and spare parts is a waste of time and assets for the Leafs.




Nope.
- Unholy_Goalie

I think the Market has changed since Jones for Johanssen or maybe not?

In any case that was a very one-sided deal in hindsight. I think GMs hold on to potential top-pairing guys these days. Seth Jones would be my top pick if I got to choose a Dman for the Leafs but that is completely unrealistic.

Leafs already had a superstar in Matthews and a very good player in kadri at center. They then signed Taveras. They obviously don't view Nylander as a #1 center and neither would the rest of the league i terms of getting a young top pairing RH dman in return.
- MJL

Nylander isn't a better C than who they have, doesn't mean he can't be a good C/RW combo. Johanssen is listed as a C/W, he just got the chance to prove he can play C because Columbus had no other options.

Simmonds would be part of a package, not the main piece.

And not nearly as valuable to the Leafs as you seem to think, especially for Nylander.

I agree that Sanheim is not established enough to be the main piece. In case you haven't noticed, I haven't suggested that the Leafs would agree to that deal hypothetically. What I have said is that the Flyers wouldn't make it.
Nylander is not going to get a defenseman as good as Seth Jones in my opinion. With the exception of the age issue and a team looking to re-tool as I sad previously.

Nylander can and should bring in the RHD equivalent of what he is; top line player. Just a matter of finding a team that can afford to do it. GMs make mistakes all the time, the Leafs just have to be on the right end of it.

They absolutely do. Provorov would easily fetch Nylander from the Leafs. Flyers wouldn't do it.

Neither side would or should do it. He's not what they need. They have Rielly on the top pair, they have Gardiner if they decide to extend him and Dermott who can one day replace Gardiner or play behind him. The left side is fine. They need RHD. End of story.