I'm not questioning that... I'm questioning the premise on Babcock's part of building up a 30 year old guy... versus a younger guy who might grow his game and possibly turn into a significant contributor or trade chip. Ennis will do none of those things.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Fire Babcock?

Pretty sure he played the Polak's and the Leo's because that's who was doing the job at the time.....seems to me people forget we just had 1 of our best reg seasons ever.

I could be wrong.

Fire Babcock?

Pretty sure he played the Polak's and the Leo's because that's who was doing the job at the time.....seems to me people forget we just had 1 of our best reg seasons ever.

I could be wrong.
- Garnie

Imagine the season you would have had if Babcock didn't ruin it!

Imagine the season you would have had if Babcock didn't ruin it!
- Scabeh

Maybe we don't have to play the Bruins and get beat by Washington instead.

Fire Babcock?

Pretty sure he played the Polak's and the Leo's because that's who was doing the job at the time.....seems to me people forget we just had 1 of our best reg seasons ever.

I could be wrong.
- Garnie

I've never been on the fire Babcock "bandwagon".. although I do find it hilarious.

Actually, the whole "Ennis thing" to me is a mistake by Dubas. If there's one roster area that doesn't require propping up ... its small shifty wingers - they have plenty of those.

I would have been much happier to see them do a PTO with a guy like Winnik as an example. Or offer a Rick Nash a PTO or contract - as he would have the potential to bring something different to the table.

Truth is; you don't know zilch about the Rangers prospects
- 21peter

I hope for your sake that Day, Chytil, Andersson and Kravtsov all have successful NHL careers

I've never been on the fire Babcock "bandwagon".. although I do find it hilarious.

Actually, the whole "Ennis thing" to me is a mistake by Dubas. If there's one roster area that doesn't require propping up ... its small shifty wingers - they have plenty of those.

I would have been much happier to see them do a PTO with a guy like Winnik as an example. Or offer a Rick Nash a PTO or contract - as he would have the potential to bring something different to the table.
- BorjeFan4Ever

meh, probably pressbox guy...must be something Dubas likes about him...not a big deal. JMO

edit: not sure Nash and Winnik would keep up....I'd rather just sign Nylander and get on with like we imagined a few mths ago.....it was just too good to be true for Leaf fans I guess.

I hope for your sake that Day, Chytil, Andersson and Kravtsov all have successful NHL careers
- PatC80

Day likely won't happen. He's ranked ~10-12 now...

I understand what you are trying to indicate... but respectfully disagree. If there's anything the Leafs have in abundance its wingers... and they would seem to be better off (to me) to grow those wingers - rather than help some 30 year old journeyman revive his career.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Its about allowing Kapanen to do well and gel with his actual linemates for the year. Nylander will be back soon enough, you might as well get Kapanen with his linemates and let them get some chemistry. Its about long term success not a couple of weeks.

I've never been on the fire Babcock "bandwagon".. although I do find it hilarious.

Actually, the whole "Ennis thing" to me is a mistake by Dubas. If there's one roster area that doesn't require propping up ... its small shifty wingers - they have plenty of those.

I would have been much happier to see them do a PTO with a guy like Winnik as an example. Or offer a Rick Nash a PTO or contract - as he would have the potential to bring something different to the table.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Ennis contract was a steal.
Who cares about competition and some players 'not given an opportunity'..?
Leafs need to win a SC, not in the charity business.
if Ennis pans out, great.
if not, not an issue due to the contract - some team will pick him up on waivers or he'll be a valuable addition to Marlies... not sure why people could complain about this.
Dubas is still unproven - but signing Ennis was a good move.

if its a long term deal (7 or 8 years) then the number goes up, not down. you are then buying UFA years.

Personally I dont care what he "deserves", as a fan I care about if the player is providing value above what his cap hit is. that how you build winning teams today in a cap system.

If you compare other contracts and age and everything else, he lands around 7 mil
So if you can get him for that or less great, you are getting him age 22-30 under that deal. Its a good bet for the Leafs.

its much better than paying JVR 7 mil for age 29-33
- senstroll

Wrong, the number goes down. The player gets long term security. The player gives up a little money.

Day likely won't happen. He's ranked ~10-12 now...
- 21peter

I had such high hopes for him, cause he played in Mississauga for 3 years.

Wrong, the number goes down. The player gets long term security. The player gives up a little money.
- Hockey_Reverend

The money would probably go up, on a long term deal.. You have to account for UFA years, and player agents always assume that the player will only get better and should make more money.

The money would probably go up, on a long term deal.. You have to account for UFA years, and player agents always assume that the player will only get better and should make more money.
- PatC80

you are right - this so-called 'reverend' has no idea

I'm not questioning that... I'm questioning the premise on Babcock's part of building up a 30 year old guy... versus a younger guy who might grow his game and possibly turn into a significant contributor or trade chip. Ennis will do none of those things.
- BorjeFan4Ever

1) spreading the scoring around
2) making the young guys earn it

Two things Babcock has been doing since coming to the Leafs.

Wrong, the number goes down. The player gets long term security. The player gives up a little money.
- Hockey_Reverend

I'm afraid Senstroll is correct on this one, father.

See Subban, P.K.

1) spreading the scoring around
2) making the young guys earn it

Two things Babcock has been doing since coming to the Leafs.
- Feeling Glucky?

As per 1), Babcock's philosophy on making lines is he wants two skilled guys paired up with one grinder - it's the grinder's job to go get the puck and give it to the two skilled guys.

actually the Ennis thing really pisses me off.

because of Nylander's contract impasse, Babcock (who I generally always support) seems to "Need to identify a new pet"... with Polak and Komarov gone.

So he picks Ennis, and thereby indirectly doesn't give Kapanen, Leivo, Johnsson or Grundstrom a shot higher up in the line-up. Of course Ennis is going to look better playing with Matthews than Leivo playing with Kadri, or whatever other combo he chooses to put together.

wouldn't it seem like a good idea to give one of the younger guys an audition in that spot... prove that maybe they are more than 3-4 line material? (which would seem to me to also send a better message to Nylander btw)

to Ennis
- BorjeFan4Ever

lol, nothing to do with coach's pet. Ennis isn't on that line because that's where he'll start, he's a placeholder for Nylander. Coach expects Nylander to be back before season, so he wants to keep the other 3 lines in tact throughout camp to build chemistry and what not. If/when nylander signs, Ennis will be the 13th forward, probably rotating with Leivo. If Nylander doesn't sign who knows, maybe ennis does start there

if its a long term deal (7 or 8 years) then the number goes up, not down. you are then buying UFA years.

Personally I dont care what he "deserves", as a fan I care about if the player is providing value above what his cap hit is. that how you build winning teams today in a cap system.

If you compare other contracts and age and everything else, he lands around 7 mil
So if you can get him for that or less great, you are getting him age 22-30 under that deal. Its a good bet for the Leafs.

its much better than paying JVR 7 mil for age 29-33
- senstroll

Honest question:

Would it not have been better to pay JVR 7 million and flip Willie for a d-man? Alot of people seem to undervalue JVR. Former 2nd overall, some of the best hands in the league around the net. Performs well in the playoffs. Has Willie proven as much as JVR had at his age?

Wrong, the number goes down. The player gets long term security. The player gives up a little money.
- Hockey_Reverend

by short I mean 3 or 4 years.

here is Matt Cane predictions base in his model

https://docs.google.com/s...386jVESKSOf0V4/edit#gid=0

Nylander by years.
Once you start going over 4 years it goes up

1 - $5,167,787
2 - $5,440,360
3 - $6,302,581
4 - $6,741,261
5 - $7,010,668
6 - $6,955,003
7 - $6,965,044
8 - $7,447,762

Wrong, the number goes down. The player gets long term security. The player gives up a little money.
- Hockey_Reverend

Not when you’re talking a star RFA. These guys know they’ll get huge contracts as UFAs, so every UFA year you buy as a team, you need to pay more for.

NHL contracts also go up year after year, so shorter contracts can actually benefit their long-term earnings as long as they don’t get injured.

you are right - this so-called 'reverend' has no idea
- plantheparade

thank you... I guess?

I had such high hopes for him, cause he played in Mississauga for 3 years.
- PatC80

imo they should've given him a few games with the big club before giving up on him... likely won't happen. Guessing he will be cut tmrw.

The money would probably go up, on a long term deal.. You have to account for UFA years, and player agents always assume that the player will only get better and should make more money.
- PatC80

But if you sign him for 6 years, then he becomes a UFA. Before that he is not. They were talking about this yesterday on a TSN panel. I believe it was Bob MacKenzie who said at his age, a few more years of security means the player has to give something up, especailly on a team where you are not a central building block. Dubas has all the power here. Willie is a RFA. The comparables in the league are closer to 6-6.5 million, not 8 million. Whoever posted the list of players like Malkin and Stamkos need to examine Willies play. Inconsistent.

Honest question:

Would it not have been better to pay JVR 7 million and flip Willie for a d-man? Alot of people seem to undervalue JVR. Former 2nd overall, some of the best hands in the league around the net. Performs well in the playoffs. Has Willie proven as much as JVR had at his age?
- Hockey_Reverend

Honest answer: in theory, you are right.

I'm just skeptical of what the Leafs could have received in return for Nylander - nobody gives up young stud defencemen.

FFS, look what Edmonton gave up for Larsson.

Yeah, I know. But still...

Honest question:

Would it not have been better to pay JVR 7 million and flip Willie for a d-man? Alot of people seem to undervalue JVR. Former 2nd overall, some of the best hands in the league around the net. Performs well in the playoffs. Has Willie proven as much as JVR had at his age?
- Hockey_Reverend

Nylander still..

I would rather the $7M on Nylander, because I think he will be a very good player, and $7M will look like a steal in 3 years. Whereas, I think JvR and his $7M will be an anchor in 2-3 years.