Meh. That place was on a whole other level of easy. Haven’t played it in maybe 3 years, has it grown in yet? The last time I played it I murdered that course with a wicked hangover and never went back.
- TheHank

Grover Cleveland is the easiest 18 holes in the area that I've played. It's got exactly one, sort of, challenging hole, on the front 9, medium-longish length par 3 with an elevated green.

Reinhart has only missed 6 games in 3 years

7 if you count Disco slapping his peepee and gluing him to the bench late in '17
- jcragcrumple

Grover Cleveland is the easiest 18 holes in the area that I've played. It's got exactly one, sort of, challenging hole, on the front 9, medium-longish length par 3 with an elevated green.
- Wetbandit1

Sure. I’ve played it a couple times when the wind was blowing 30+. Those tiny greens can be a female dog to hit and even harder to get it up and down should you short side yourself. That being said, I did have one day there where I was en route to a 57 before I (frank)ed up the last two holes. I would like to play it with gear from a hundred years ago and see how I would fare.
The nine hole track on South Park botanical gardens whatever they call it these days is the easiest track I’ve ever played. I shot back to back 28’s there a few years ago. Don’t think I ever went over par there. Will be cool if Nicklaus actually does come in and make a real course combined with that new property just to the north of it.

- washedup20

It makes a ton of sense. Package him with Okposo maybe if he has a great year and a team finds that his value evens out Okposos.
- TheHank

I'm not sure why everyone is so down on Okposo, yes he's overpaid, but he's far from useless. I'd take him 10 times out of 10 over the other guys signed that year around that money and term. He's better than Lucic, Backes, Ladd...

He's got 89 points here 45 and 44, Lucic has 84, but dropped 16 last year from 50 to 34, Backes has 71, 38 and 33 and Ladd has 60, 31 and 29.

I'm not sure why everyone is so down on Okposo, yes he's overpaid, but he's far from useless. I'd take him 10 times out of 10 over the other guys signed that year around that money and term. He's better than Lucic, Backes, Ladd...

He's got 89 points here 45 and 44, Lucic has 84, but dropped 16 last year from 50 to 34, Backes has 71, 38 and 33 and Ladd has 60, 31 and 29.
- Wetbandit1

Point taken, but I feel like this is kinda your argument

Sure. I’ve played it a couple times when the wind was blowing 30+. Those tiny greens can be a female dog to hit and even harder to get it up and down should you short side yourself. That being said, I did have one day there where I was en route to a 57 before I (frank)ed up the last two holes. I would like to play it with gear from a hundred years ago and see how I would fare.
The nine hole track on South Park botanical gardens whatever they call it these days is the easiest track I’ve ever played. I shot back to back 28’s there a few years ago. Don’t think I ever went over par there. Will be cool if Nicklaus actually does come in and make a real course combined with that new property just to the north of it.
- TheHank

Easiest 9 holes has to be Creekside/Evergreen behind Manor Lanes. It's totally flat with no rough whatsoever and really short. the 2nd hole you can throw your ball to the green without much difficulty. They closed a few years ago though, I think.

Point taken, but I feel like this is kinda your argument



- jcragcrumple

Not really, I think he's a useful player. You're never going to get "value" on a UFA.

I'm not sure why everyone is so down on Okposo, yes he's overpaid, but he's far from useless. I'd take him 10 times out of 10 over the other guys signed that year around that money and term. He's better than Lucic, Backes, Ladd...

He's got 89 points here 45 and 44, Lucic has 84, but dropped 16 last year from 50 to 34, Backes has 71, 38 and 33 and Ladd has 60, 31 and 29.
- Wetbandit1

I don't care about numbers... It's about what I see at the games.


I haven't been to any games in Buffalo since 2011 (I think).

Not really, I think he's a useful player. You're never going to get "value" on a UFA.
- Wetbandit1

You can minimize the pain by limiting term, though. Neal, Stastny and JVR signed for less term. That's the way to go.

I'm not worried about Okposo this year, or maybe even next, but he has 5 years left and his speed is already a problem.

Well i did say 1-2yrs, 3.5ish

After seeing some of the other contracts this summer, i thought it would go up to at least 4mil on a bridge deal

So great job by Botts imo

It’s a good deal for the Sabres now.

Going to come back to bite them in the arse in two years.
- dadeadhead

What do u think Sam will cost in 2 years?

*also... we can extend him after next year
Don’t have to wait until this deal is up

I'm not sure why everyone is so down on Okposo, yes he's overpaid, but he's far from useless. I'd take him 10 times out of 10 over the other guys signed that year around that money and term. He's better than Lucic, Backes, Ladd...

He's got 89 points here 45 and 44, Lucic has 84, but dropped 16 last year from 50 to 34, Backes has 71, 38 and 33 and Ladd has 60, 31 and 29.
- Wetbandit1

IF this is fair:

Okposo is overpaid slightly, but it's the longevity of the contract coupled with his concussion issues that makes me think we can do better for that 6M. He got 44 pts this last year, so he isn't a dumpster fire yet or another Moulson. Still, I think that's what I fear. He isn't a burning fast skater and if the concussions cause his physicality to wane (he is a power forward after all), that could negatively impact his game in a big way.

Furthermore, I think the reason to trade him is we have guys like Thompson and Nylander now who can probably put up 40+ pts in a season either this year or next. If that's the case, Okposo is overpaid, somewhat fragile and redundant. I think it's fair he takes some flack.

His contract was based on pt totals of 69, 51 and 64 in his last years with the Isles. he hasn't attained that type of production since, slipping in points even at the lowest of those years.

Easiest 9 holes has to be Creekside/Evergreen behind Manor Lanes. It's totally flat with no rough whatsoever and really short. the 2nd hole you can throw your ball to the green without much difficulty. They closed a few years ago though, I think.
- Wetbandit1

Never played it.

I'm not sure why everyone is so down on Okposo, yes he's overpaid, but he's far from useless. I'd take him 10 times out of 10 over the other guys signed that year around that money and term. He's better than Lucic, Backes, Ladd...

He's got 89 points here 45 and 44, Lucic has 84, but dropped 16 last year from 50 to 34, Backes has 71, 38 and 33 and Ladd has 60, 31 and 29.
- Wetbandit1

I would take him over lucic too, you’re comparing him to one of the leagues worst contracts. I just don’t see us contending with him in the top 6. Paying 3rd line wingers 6m per isn’t something I’m very fond of. I hope he doesn’t/ doubt he will play out that contract here and I hope we don’t have to eat to much celery to move him when the time comes.

What do u think Sam will cost in 2 years?

*also... we can extend him after next year
Don’t have to wait until this deal is up
- jdfitz77

Well if he goes out and gets 55-60, why would he negotiate at the end of the year? I know I wouldn’t unless it’s for a large amount.

He’s bet on himself.

55-60 this year
60-65 the following

That’s 7-7.5 mill especially if he has 60ish goals in that timeframe.

I would take him over lucic too, you’re comparing him to one of the leagues worst contracts. I just don’t see us contending with him in the top 6. Paying 3rd line wingers 6m per isn’t something I’m very fond of. I hope he doesn’t/ doubt he will play out that contract here and I hope we don’t have to eat to much celery to move him when the time comes.
- TheHank

I'm only comparing him to the deals that were signed the year he was UFA. That's all you can do, things change from year to year.

I'm only comparing him to the deals that were signed the year he was UFA. That's all you can do, things change from year to year.
- Wetbandit1

That’s fair. I’m just looking at the reality of it in two years. I bet everyone in Alberta would like to dump that lucic contract right about now.

That’s fair. I’m just looking at the reality of it in two years. I bet everyone in Alberta would like to dump that lucic contract right about now.
- TheHank

A certain clown wants to trade Okposo for Lucic...

That’s fair. I’m just looking at the reality of it in two years. I bet everyone in Alberta would like to dump that lucic contract right about now.
- TheHank

Sure, but he only scored 10 goals in all 82 last year. Okposo had 15(50% more! lol), and 10 more points overall on a team that scored 35 less goals.

Well if he goes out and gets 55-60, why would he negotiate at the end of the year? I know I wouldn’t unless it’s for a large amount.

He’s bet on himself.

55-60 this year
60-65 the following

That’s 7-7.5 mill especially if he has 60ish goals in that timeframe.
- dadeadhead

And if he stays a 45-50 point complimentary guy, who has yet to score well at 5 on 5, the Sabres won’t be on the hook for 6+ for 7 years after this.

I like Sam, but he’s not the player you lock up at this juncture to a big deal IMO.

It very well could be Myers/Ennis/Hodgson again

That’s fair. I’m just looking at the reality of it in two years. I bet everyone in Alberta would like to dump that lucic contract right about now.
- TheHank

He's definitely overpaid, no doubt about it, but given the others, we could've done worse.

Well if he goes out and gets 55-60, why would he negotiate at the end of the year? I know I wouldn’t unless it’s for a large amount.

He’s bet on himself.

55-60 this year
60-65 the following

That’s 7-7.5 mill especially if he has 60ish goals in that timeframe.
- dadeadhead

Isn’t that like saying,
Why would Sam accept a long term deal for 6mil now, when in 2 years he could potentially make 7.5m?

According to Homie (and i think this makes sense)...
Botts was willing to pay 5mil long term
Sam wanted 6mil

Let’s say we did 8yrs x 6mil today
That’s 48mil total

Now let’s say we get stuck paying 7.5mil bc we waited
7.3mil for these 2yrs, + 7.5m x 6yrs (45mil)
That totals 52.3mil
Divide 53.2mil by 8 years
That equals 6.5375mil per season

So we theoretically end up paying just over half a million more per year over the 8 year time span if we get stuck paying him 7.5mil per on his next deal
And if he only makes 7mil per on his next deal, then it’s essentially even either way

And if we end up signing him to a 6mil per deal (which i think is about his ceiling),
then we are actually saving $$$

A bridge deal almost always makes sense
The only way it really ends up hurting you mathematically is when u talk about the highest paid guys in the league
Sam is never gonna get to that point though

Math says...
this bridge deal is excellent

And if he stays a 45-50 point complimentary guy, who has yet to score well at 5 on 5, the Sabres won’t be on the hook for 6+ for 7 years after this.

I like Sam, but he’s not the player you lock up at this juncture to a big deal IMO.

It very well could be Myers/Ennis/Hodgson again
- sbroads24

It doesn’t feel right when we agree!
Hahahaha

He's definitely overpaid, no doubt about it, but given the others, we could've done worse.
- Wetbandit1

You don’t have to sign free agents. We never should have signed him in the first place. I could care less about the other options in free agency. I’m looking at our situation with him in a vacuum.