yeah its a league wide thing, really. In hockey you've sort of always been expected to match lines and put your grinders against scorers. Stats are helping us learn that maybe this isn't always the best approach, but it takes time to bleed down into real world situations.

You're already seeing teams ice five or six puck moving defenseman - something I was routinely mocked for suggesting five years ago - and you're also seeing fourth lines made up of skilled players. I have no doubt that if Toccet's successful as an NHL coach that much like Babcock, he'll learn and adjust as he goes.
- James_Tanner

But everything is cyclical. When a team goes full skill (70's Habs) it gets countered by muscle / intimidation (70's Flyers). Until the rules of the game are constantly called to the letter of the law, there will be an opposite counter. 2011 Canucks tried to go skill and "make them pay for taking a penalty". The Bruins countered by speed bagging players faces with no calls, and won. Not sour grapes here, but the calls weren't made and the tougher team won.

William nylander has decided to skip his career and go straight to the HOF.

yeah its a league wide thing, really. In hockey you've sort of always been expected to match lines and put your grinders against scorers. Stats are helping us learn that maybe this isn't always the best approach, but it takes time to bleed down into real world situations.

You're already seeing teams ice five or six puck moving defenseman - something I was routinely mocked for suggesting five years ago - and you're also seeing fourth lines made up of skilled players. I have no doubt that if Toccet's successful as an NHL coach that much like Babcock, he'll learn and adjust as he goes.
- James_Tanner

Tocchet has had many opportunities to prove he can coach a team. I don't know if Arizona is desperate or stubborn, or if Rick is just well connected, but this guy shouldn't be in that position. Especially with a young team that is trying to get off the ground.

“One of the best rosters in the league”

But everything is cyclical. When a team goes full skill (70's Habs) it gets countered by muscle / intimidation (70's Flyers). Until the rules of the game are constantly called to the letter of the law, there will be an opposite counter. 2011 Canucks tried to go skill and "make them pay for taking a penalty". The Bruins countered by speed bagging players faces with no calls, and won. Not sour grapes here, but the calls weren't made and the tougher team won.
- carsonagenic

Boston has always been good at this; even during our series with them a few months ago they know how to be tough and gritty right on the line, just a hair's width from crossing over it.

Also, back in the Vancouver/Boston SCF, Vancouver had a pretty strong reputation with refs for having several players who would dive to draw penalties. Refs caught onto this, which allowed Boston to amp up their grit even more. Vancouver shot themselves in the foot with the diving/faking business since their strategy was to make opponents pay on the PP and they stopped getting PP's.

new blog title

Excuses

Maybe - and this will sound crazy - what I'm listed as doesn't have anything to do with me?
- James_Tanner

it's what he chooses to identify as that really matters

Boston has always been good at this; even during our series with them a few months ago they know how to be tough and gritty right on the line, just a hair's width from crossing over it.

Also, back in the Vancouver/Boston SCF, Vancouver had a pretty strong reputation with refs for having several players who would dive to draw penalties. Refs caught onto this, which allowed Boston to amp up their grit even more. Vancouver shot themselves in the foot with the diving/faking business since their strategy was to make opponents pay on the PP and they stopped getting PP's.
- --Lamp--

I agree with the reputation they got. Players like Kessler and Burrows reaped the wind and the Sedins reaped the whirlwind.

I skipped the game entirely, do the Coyotes still have the best roster in the game with no black holes...asking for an associate named MJL?

No, because on this one you actually are listed as the Coyotes blogger, not the Caps one. It was puzzling why you continually wrote Coyotes-related blogs under the "Capitals blogger" title.

I just thought that, since you are still listed as the Capitals blogger, that we'd get your deep insight into the Wilson 2-game suspension, the 7-0 blowout, or the 7-6 shootout last night as opposed to a team that lost 3-0 last night.

Just my 2 cents, for what they're worth (3 Canadian cents?)

Edit: I didn't realize that "right after the SCF" means early August.
- jmatchett383

The inability of some people to be honest is sooo disappointing. Even when there is no reason to lie or exaggerate, some still do it because it is just what they are.....Dishonest

Tanner

This is the people who read your blog rubbing your nose in what you've said. Own it. Over the summer you've said some pretty silly stuff and now it's come home to roost.

Nothing wrong with being a cheer leader for your team, it's kind of expected. It's also tougher when it's the Yotes.

Using fancy stats to back up a "we coulda won" this game position isn't going to make you a lot of friends. Either those stats that you hold close to your bosom don't matter to the degree you assert or the rest don't see the game the same way as you do. You need to do a better job of bringing the value of Corsi, Corsi plus etc. over the traditional fo%, sog, pp%, sv% etc. that have been more traditional and more reliable to back an argument. Not to say that fancy stats don't have a place but their connection to analyze who won and who lost accurately isn't there yet for many.

Going all butt hurt when someone calls you out for one of your classic Tanner over the top statements is not a way to solve the above. Injecting your political views onto a hockey site is another grind. Stop both. Own what you said and accept what goes with it, good or bad.

Look if you want to just assume the team that wins is the best, go right ahead. It's not 2006 anymore and I don't have to defend analyzing a game the right way. I'm sure you wish there was more fights and are sad that defensive defenseman are irrelevant. There's nothing I can do about that though.
- James_Tanner

The right way to analyze the game is not to just look at shot metrics but look at what is most important. Goals are most important. Seguin was kept off of the scoreboard and did not score. Matchup successful.

yeah its a league wide thing, really. In hockey you've sort of always been expected to match lines and put your grinders against scorers. Stats are helping us learn that maybe this isn't always the best approach, but it takes time to bleed down into real world situations.

You're already seeing teams ice five or six puck moving defenseman - something I was routinely mocked for suggesting five years ago - and you're also seeing fourth lines made up of skilled players. I have no doubt that if Toccet's successful as an NHL coach that much like Babcock, he'll learn and adjust as he goes.
- James_Tanner

Teams aren't icing 5 or 6 puck moving defenseman that can't play defensively. Here's what you don't understand. One group of forwards playing in a tough matchup against the other team's top line allow other players to play in better matchups. Some player take the lumps and the nonsense analysis from blow hard so called internet experts who look at Corsi out of context and call them bad players, so other players can reap the benefit. That's called a team.

Babcock has Matthews, Taveras, and Kadri at center. A high school coach could get matchups in his favor with that center lineup.

Tanner

This is the people who read your blog rubbing your nose in what you've said. Own it. Over the summer you've said some pretty silly stuff and now it's come home to roost.

Nothing wrong with being a cheer leader for your team, it's kind of expected. It's also tougher when it's the Yotes.

Using fancy stats to back up a "we coulda won" this game position isn't going to make you a lot of friends. Either those stats that you hold close to your bosom don't matter to the degree you assert or the rest don't see the game the same way as you do. You need to do a better job of bringing the value of Corsi, Corsi plus etc. over the traditional fo%, sog, pp%, sv% etc. that have been more traditional and more reliable to back an argument. Not to say that fancy stats don't have a place but their connection to analyze who won and who lost accurately isn't there yet for many.

Going all butt hurt when someone calls you out for one of your classic Tanner over the top statements is not a way to solve the above. Injecting your political views onto a hockey site is another grind. Stop both. Own what you said and accept what goes with it, good or bad.
- weakglovehand

What are you talking about? I don't know that I mentioned anything about politics, and I certainly don't care if people like how I do things or not. If you want to get bad analysis based on outdated garbage stats, there's plenty of that on TV.

Don't use the phrase 'butt hurt' either. That's annoying. Unless you're twelve you should probably be embarrassed its in your vocabulary at all.

I also don't know what I'm supposed to own. I don't know what I said that could be proven wrong in one game from a team missing two of their top three centres and who still could have won (considering they played a good game).

In the end, I always enjoy nonsense from the cheapseats, so thanks for the comment.

What are you talking about? I don't know that I mentioned anything about politics, and I certainly don't care if people like how I do things or not. If you want to get bad analysis based on outdated garbage stats, there's plenty of that on TV.

Don't use the phrase 'butt hurt' either. That's annoying. Unless you're twelve you should probably be embarrassed its in your vocabulary at all.

I also don't know what I'm supposed to own. I don't know what I said that could be proven wrong in one game from a team missing two of their top three centres and who still could have won (considering they played a good game).

In the end, I always enjoy nonsense from the cheapseats, so thanks for the comment.
- James_Tanner

The sad part is that you don't realize that some of the stats you rely on are outdated also.

The sad part is that you don't realize that some of the stats you rely on are outdated also.
- MJL

They aren't, but thanks for your usual incorrect input. Always appreciated.

They aren't, but thanks for your usual incorrect input. Always appreciated.
- James_Tanner

Some actually are. Corsi for example is archaic. As always, I'm open for you to prove that my input is incorrect. You don't do so simply because you can't. The same reason why you didn't to my other post on this page of the thread explaining how you don't get the game of hockey.

Some actually are. Corsi for example is archaic. As always, I'm open for you to prove that my input is incorrect. You don't do so simply because you can't. The same reason why you didn't to my other post on this page of the thread explaining how you don't get the game of hockey.
- MJL

The idea that Corsi is outdated is lunacy. Shot-Attempts are the best predictor of future performance and they are the easiest way to break down a game. If you're wondering why I ignore you or refuse to 'prove' anything to you its because you ignore anything that doesn't fit your preconceived notions. Any facts that prove you wrong are biased, incorrectly gathered or researched by someone with ties to Antifa. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall , so there's no point. Corsi is not 'archaic' but since nothing I say will convince you, I won't even bother to attempt to prove otherwise.

The idea that Corsi is outdated is lunacy. Shot-Attempts are the best predictor of future performance and they are the easiest way to break down a game. If you're wondering why I ignore you or refuse to 'prove' anything to you its because you ignore anything that doesn't fit your preconceived notions. Any facts that prove you wrong are biased, incorrectly gathered or researched by someone with ties to Antifa. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall , so there's no point. Corsi is not 'archaic' but since nothing I say will convince you, I won't even bother to attempt to prove otherwise.
- James_Tanner

It's not at all lunacy. NHL teams have moved so far past analytics such as Corsi in their use of proprietary analytics. If shot attempts are so easy to break down a game, why is that you get it wrong so often like you did with the current blog? My notions aren't pre-conceived. In fact they're based on the comments of those in the know. From comments by expert NHL analysts such as Bob McKenzie. The real truth is that this bursts your bubble and what you base all of your analysis around. You can't bring yourself to accepting new realities. Yet you continually criticize others for not being open minded. In the end it's good for you that you still believe what you believe because even archaic stats like Corsi are tough for you to grasp and use with the correct context in your analysis. You can't properly use even the basic fundamental stats properly. You won't bother to attempt to prove otherwise because the facts don't support you.

From 2014

http://mremis.ca/bob-mcke...-nhl-teams-use-analytics/

“The thing that makes me laugh a little bit about the whole analytics debate, in the media the old school media vs. the new school if that’s what you want to call it. People are still debating Corsi. I mean, the analytics in the National Hockey League team by team for the most part are so beyond Corsi that it’s not even a talking point. Corsi’s just a basic metric that some people use, some people don’t.

Odd, all of the other bloggers on here actually talk about the teams they're listed (and paid) to cover.
- jmatchett383

Excellent point you bring up. I remember Jimmy addressing this a few weeks back to one of the better Blackhawks posters in this thread and Jimmy said this would be fixed come the start of October. I guess he can't really be taken at his word.

Coyotes are off to a terrific start with the best lineup in hockey, grand total of zero goals

The idea that Corsi is outdated is lunacy. Shot-Attempts are the best predictor of future performance and they are the easiest way to break down a game. If you're wondering why I ignore you or refuse to 'prove' anything to you its because you ignore anything that doesn't fit your preconceived notions. Any facts that prove you wrong are biased, incorrectly gathered or researched by someone with ties to Antifa. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall , so there's no point. Corsi is not 'archaic' but since nothing I say will convince you, I won't even bother to attempt to prove otherwise.
- James_Tanner

IRONIC