I don’t think Schmaltz has a bad shot, he just doesn’t shoot enough...that can be taught.
- Ogilthorpe2

Just like winning face offs, oh wait

Thanks. Yes, it was great to see Hillman and Gilbert play. Both were fine overall. Just need consistency but that should come with experience at the pro level.

Gilbert could stand to use his size more. He was physical at Notre Dame but not as much so far in Rockford. Sometimes he tries to be a finesse puck mover and ends up getting stopped at the Hogs offensive blue line or shortly after. Keep it simple and play within your means.
- AEL_Fox

If Gilbert decides he wants to be a finesse guy (puck mover or dangler), he will find himself stuck with the Hogs if not demoted to the Fuel. Like anything else, maximize your strengths and minimize your weaknesses. Yes, at ND and even further back in Juniors with the Steel he was good for at least one juicy turnover in the D zone per game. Here's a thought: for defensive D men, play it simple!

I believe people are looking at Saad as what they hope him to be, not what he is.

In the 2 seasons in CHI before the trade to Columbus, he averaged 21 goals & 50 points. That was while playing with 2 future 1st ballot HOFers, one who is the 35st best goal scorer in the history of the NHL, the other who is one of the premier centers of his time.

On this go around with the Hawks, he’s played with no one near that good, including an older, JT, who had 2 sub-par years.

And don’t forget Stan traded him, partially because of CAP considerations, part because he probably wasn’t worth what he was asking.

In reality, he’s probably a 3rd line wing. At $3-4 million, someone that can contribute. At $6M, not good enough for top 6.
- scottak

100% agreed of which I will add that Saad was an unknown commodity coming into the league and kind of catching the league by storm, and like you stated, flanked by Hoss and Tazor! Well the newness has worn out and what you see is what you get and whatever the Dennis Green quote was, " they are who we thought they were" something to that effect.

100% agreed of which I will add that Saad was an unknown commodity coming into the league and kind of catching the league by storm, and like you stated, flanked by Hoss and Tazor! Well the newness has worn out and what you see is what you get and whatever the Dennis Green quote was, " they are who we thought they were" something to that effect.
- D2D

Well, his two best seasons points wise were in Columbus while not playing with Toews or Hossa...so there’s that.

That sound you just heard was your theory imploding.

Bummed i missed the reunion last night. First time ive backread a comment section in years

Bummed i missed the reunion last night. First time ive backread a comment section in years
- BlazinMike

Good times my friend, good times.

Well, his two best seasons points wise were in Columbus while not playing with Toews or Hossa...so there’s that.

That sound you just heard was your theory imploding.
- Ogilthorpe2

Two can played that game and that "sound" are my fingers hitting the keyboard in looking up the stats. As I have said many times, I go by pure optics and memory and refuse to go back and look at stats. That said, by all of 1pt that his Columbus numbers were greater, some PP goals and some not.

And I will stand by what I say and back up the original poster as to where to find Saad ...side of a milk carton. As a Hawks fan, I sincerely hope I am wrong about Saad conversely I have been always singing the praises of Panarin.

And your thoughts on Saad?

Two can played that game and that "sound" are my fingers hitting the keyboard in looking up the stats. As I have said many times, I go by pure optics and memory and refuse to go back and look at stats. That said, by all of 1pt that his Columbus numbers were greater, some PP goals and some not.

And I will stand by what I say and back up the original poster as to where to find Saad ...side of a milk carton. As a Hawks fan, I sincerely hope I am wrong about Saad conversely I have been always singing the praises of Panarin.

And your thoughts on Saad?
- D2D

Doesn’t matter if it was 1 point or 10, the crux of the argument was that he can’t produce without two future Hall of famers on his line...his time in Columbus proves that theory wrong.

I’m not sure what his problem is, but he just seems to lack confidence right now. His shooting % hit a career low last season and I think he’s feeling snake bitten. I think he’s in a funk and just needs a bounce or two to go his way to get some confidence back. He went hard to the net last game and was almost rewarded for it. Instead he was upended in the crease and drew a penalty. If he had been allowed to tap that goal home, maybe it’s the start of him coming out of his slump, and maybe it’s not that simple...who knows?

All I’m saying is he’s proven he’s capable of being effective, and not just with Toews and Hossa. Hopefully he figures it out soon.

Doesn’t matter if it was 1 point or 10, the crux of the argument was that he can’t produce without two future Hall of famers on his line...his time in Columbus proves that theory wrong.

I’m not sure what his problem is, but he just seems to lack confidence right now. His shooting % hit a career low last season and I think he’s feeling snake bitten. I think he’s in a funk and just needs a bounce or two to go his way to get some confidence back. He went hard to the net last game and was almost rewarded for it. Instead he was upended in the crease and drew a penalty. If he had been allowed to tap that goal home, maybe it’s the start of him coming out of his slump, and maybe it’s not that simple...who knows?

All I’m saying is he’s proven he’s capable of being effective, and not just with Toews and Hossa. Hopefully he figures it out soon.
- Ogilthorpe2

Who did he play with in Columbus? Question to anyone. Where did LBR go, she's the go-to. That team is good, young, fast, skilled ... can't finish when it mtaters though. They make the playoffs, but I'm just wondering.

If Gilbert decides he wants to be a finesse guy (puck mover or dangler), he will find himself stuck with the Hogs if not demoted to the Fuel. Like anything else, maximize your strengths and minimize your weaknesses. Yes, at ND and even further back in Juniors with the Steel he was good for at least one juicy turnover in the D zone per game. Here's a thought: for defensive D men, play it simple!
- D2D

Didn't the Fighting Irish coaches even try to coach out of him the tendency to try to go end to end with rushes and focus more on being a defensive defenseman? Thought I read that somewhere, maybe on these boards actually.

By all means, Gilbert does need to be a strong puck handler and able to join the rush at opportune times especially in the Hawks system that preaches that. Yet, he's not being counted on to be the mail carrier. He'd be competing against the Forslings, Jokiharjus, Boqvists, Beaudins, and Mitchell's who are substantially more talented than him in that regard.

Gilbert as well as Hillman and Carlsson need to bank on a different calling card to help create a niche for themselves on the Hawks blueline, i.e. defense first and simple plays when contributing offensively.

100% agreed of which I will add that Saad was an unknown commodity coming into the league and kind of catching the league by storm, and like you stated, flanked by Hoss and Tazor! Well the newness has worn out and what you see is what you get and whatever the Dennis Green quote was, " they are who we thought they were" something to that effect.
- D2D

Saad was actually a highly touted prospect going into his draft year but an injury slowed him down and he fell to the Hawks at #43. If I remember correctly he was projected to go in the top half of the first round before the season. Then he got hurt (groin I think) and he didn't have that burst that made him a top prospect. So while the fans didn't know much about him, the scouts and GMs did and he showed he got that burst back when he was fully recovered.

To me, it looks more like a crisis of confidence or he doesn't have the fire in the belly anymore more than it does a physical problem.

Didn't the Fighting Irish coaches even try to coach out of him the tendency to try to go end to end with rushes and focus more on being a defensive defenseman? Thought I read that somewhere, maybe on these boards actually.

By all means, Gilbert does need to be a strong puck handler and able to join the rush at opportune times especially in the Hawks system that preaches that. Yet, he's not being counted on to be the mail carrier. He'd be competing against the Forslings, Jokiharjus, Boqvists, Beaudins, and Mitchell's who are substantially more talented than him in that regard.

Gilbert as well as Hillman and Carlsson need to bank on a different calling card to help create a niche for themselves on the Hawks blueline, i.e. defense first and simple plays when contributing offensively.
- AEL_Fox

Could Carlsson, bring a very good skater, find this attribute helps him to Excell eventually not only a but NHL? I may allow him to be strong in.fefendingbagsinst elite and fast forwards..

And what os there yomlike about Tuulola? Stepoed in and played well end of AHL playoffs despite no previous AHLexperience. Meaning that he was able toatch well with his partner (Frandon ?). An offensive Dman but is he not especially fast, just ok?

I wuestion if Rydash is a top defense prospect

Saad was actually a highly touted prospect going into his draft year but an injury slowed him down and he fell to the Hawks at #43. If I remember correctly he was projected to go in the top half of the first round before the season. Then he got hurt (groin I think) and he didn't have that burst that made him a top prospect. So while the fans didn't know much about him, the scouts and GMs did and he showed he got that burst back when he was fully recovered.

To me, it looks more like a crisis of confidence or he doesn't have the fire in the belly anymore more than it does a physical problem.
- EbonyRaptor

The evolution of Saad's draft prospectus is eerily similar to Wise's prospectus. Wise at one point was a sure-fire 1st rounder and maybe even a top 10-15 according to some experts. But then an early season injury a year ago derailed him and he fell even further than Saad to the 3rd round.

The evolution of Saad's draft prospectus is eerily similar to Wise's prospectus. Wise at one point was a sure-fire 1st rounder and maybe even a top 10-15 according to some experts. But then an early season injury a year ago derailed him and he fell even further than Saad to the 3rd round.
- AEL_Fox

I was thinking that too. Saad-43, out to prove he's more. Wise-69, out to prove he's more. A lot of draftees with big egos have that sort of thought process and use it at drive and determination against all the naysayas. I hope Wise doesn't have Saad's nhl path though. Then we would have to find a better word than "eerily" similar haha. I am still surprised Wise was available in the third round.

Doesn’t matter if it was 1 point or 10, the crux of the argument was that he can’t produce without two future Hall of famers on his line...his time in Columbus proves that theory wrong.

I’m not sure what his problem is, but he just seems to lack confidence right now. His shooting % hit a career low last season and I think he’s feeling snake bitten. I think he’s in a funk and just needs a bounce or two to go his way to get some confidence back. He went hard to the net last game and was almost rewarded for it. Instead he was upended in the crease and drew a penalty. If he had been allowed to tap that goal home, maybe it’s the start of him coming out of his slump, and maybe it’s not that simple...who knows?

All I’m saying is he’s proven he’s capable of being effective, and not just with Toews and Hossa. Hopefully he figures it out soon.
- Ogilthorpe2

My gut on Saad aligns with what you just described. While he and a lot of other Hawks could stand to put in maximum effort for a full 60 (or a full 65 in the case of the Hawks so far this season), Saad's lack of offensive output isn't for lack of effort. Like you said, a few bounces here and there during the first set of games could have spotted him a few goals to go along with his assist.

I do agree with the sentiment that Toews mentioned in an interview (I believe PDX shared the snippet): if Saad really needs to work on something specific, the coaching staff needs to tell him straight up. Being vague doesn't do good for anybody. I believe Saad is a millennial (born in 1992 but his young adulthood was in the early 2000's) and they see things black and white which includes how they prefer to get feedback.

That's the extent of my psychoanalysis or else I'd have to start billing Saad for these hours.

Could Carlsson, bring a very good skater, find this attribute helps him to Excell eventually not only a but NHL? I may allow him to be strong in.fefendingbagsinst elite and fast forwards..

And what os there yomlike about Tuulola? Stepoed in and played well end of AHL playoffs despite no previous AHLexperience. Meaning that he was able toatch well with his partner (Frandon ?). An offensive Dman but is he not especially fast, just ok?

I wuestion if Rydash is a top defense prospect
- jhawk59

Carlsson is a pretty fluid skater which isn't surprising as someone who has played on Sweden's junior tourney teams and pro league. He has what it takes to skate at the NHL level to maintain gaps, take time and space away from puck carriers, and start a quick transition out of the D zone. He can stick check and use his body at the appropriate times and doesn't give up on plays. Just needs a year or so in the AHL to gain North American experience but he should compete for a spot in another year or two. I do see similarities to Hjalmarsson.

Tuulola and Raddysh likely won't amount to much. They're inconsistent but not thoroughly horrible yet they're nothing special either. Could either or both of them put it all together and be a dark horse down the line? Sure but just don't see it. They'd have to leapfrog over a lot of talented blueliners, too.

Just like winning face offs, oh wait
- BetweenTheDots

Oh yeah- Schmaltz gm1-21%, gm2-25%, gm3-40%, gm4-33%, gm5-55%

Saad was actually a highly touted prospect going into his draft year but an injury slowed him down and he fell to the Hawks at #43. If I remember correctly he was projected to go in the top half of the first round before the season. Then he got hurt (groin I think) and he didn't have that burst that made him a top prospect. So while the fans didn't know much about him, the scouts and GMs did and he showed he got that burst back when he was fully recovered.

To me, it looks more like a crisis of confidence or he doesn't have the fire in the belly anymore more than it does a physical problem.
- EbonyRaptor

It wasn't an injury that sent him down the draft board. It was a below average hand report from scouts that soured G.M.s that first day.

In 2015, I was at a game with one of my "hockey" guys. And he told me that Hossa and Toews were trying to feeding him, but Saad forgets to bring his knife and fork.....

It wasn't an injury that sent him down the draft board. It was a below average hand report from scouts that soured G.M.s that first day.

In 2015, I was at a game with one of my "hockey" guys. And he told me that Hossa and Toews were trying to feeding him, but Saad forgets to bring his knife and fork.....
- dahawks8819

I didn't mind the Saad/Panarin trade at all at the time.

I was wrong

When reviewing all these things though, you do have to have all the details on the cap. Ideally, you would have signed Panarin and kept Sadd, though after that first year, and Panarin hitting all his bonuses, one of them would have to have been traded. Not to mention, who else would have had to been traded after that last cup season if you kept and resigned Saad.

Damn salary cap has been killing this team for almost a decade

Be interesting to watch these teams who are signing 11, 12 mil contracts left and right.

First Ulf starts training our D to play like pylons....now he is bringing man mannequins in to show them how to do it properly. Soon, our defenders won't even move at all.
- breadbag

I recall how glad i was when Ulf was hired to be the last coach I envisioned couple dmen might start applying some of the dirty Ulf tactics he was reknown for in his playing days.Well I haven't seen evidence of that. And amid the horrible light shed upon his coaching style here, plus Q and Bowman are being monitored closely this season YET they endorse Ulfie coaching

In fact the quick react playing at speed idea had continued to be pushed in the league. It is why Forsling was given immunity for other parts of his game - they wanted his game for what he was good at. Hopefully the next steps in weak areas would gradually improve; they were initially willing to live with the this.

You first have to know this much as a refresher.

Now you can dive into the Ulfie endorsed philosophy/teaching by Stan for sure and to some extent by Q as well

Until or not until changes are made in coaches, this is what each of our wonderful dmen prospects would encounter.

First Ulf starts training our D to play like pylons....now he is bringing man mannequins in to show them how to do it properly. Soon, our defenders won't even move at all.
- breadbag

I recall how glad i was when Ulf was hired to be the dman coach. I envisioned a couple dmen might start applying some of the dirty Ulf tactics he was reknown for in his playing days.Well I haven't seen evidence of that. And amid the horrible light shed upon his coaching style here, plus Q and Bowman are being monitored closely this season YET they endorse Ulfie coaching

In fact the quick react playing at speed idea had Continue to be pushed in the league. It is why Forsling was given immunity for other parts if his game - they wanted his game for what he was good at.

You first have to know this much as a refresher.

Now you can dive into the Ulfie isrndorsrd by Stan for sure and to some extent of the team

It wasn't an injury that sent him down the draft board. It was a below average hand report from scouts that soured G.M.s that first day.

In 2015, I was at a game with one of my "hockey" guys. And he told me that Hossa and Toews were trying to feeding him, but Saad forgets to bring his knife and fork.....
- dahawks8819

He never showed good hands that I saw in games with the Hawks. I never saw him play anywhere before he got to the Hawks. I read from more than one source the story about his draft projection and injury.

In 09/10 he scored 26 points in 24 games for USNDT in the USHL.
In 10/11 he scored 55 points in 57 games for Saginaw in the OHL (groin injury?).
In June 2011 he's drafted #43.
In 11/12 he scored 76 points in 44 games for Saginaw in the OHL (hand injury?).

He score a tick over a point per game in the USNDT and more than 1.5 points per game in his second year at Saginaw - and he did that with his "not elite level" hands. His first year at Saginaw wasn't as proficient because he didn't have that elite speed because of the injury.

My gut on Saad aligns with what you just described. While he and a lot of other Hawks could stand to put in maximum effort for a full 60 (or a full 65 in the case of the Hawks so far this season), Saad's lack of offensive output isn't for lack of effort. Like you said, a few bounces here and there during the first set of games could have spotted him a few goals to go along with his assist.

I do agree with the sentiment that Toews mentioned in an interview (I believe PDX shared the snippet): if Saad really needs to work on something specific, the coaching staff needs to tell him straight up. Being vague doesn't do good for anybody. I believe Saad is a millennial (born in 1992 but his young adulthood was in the early 2000's) and they see things black and white which includes how they prefer to get feedback.

That's the extent of my psychoanalysis or else I'd have to start billing Saad for these hours.
- AEL_Fox

I have always had a number of problems with Q’s coaching. Even in those years where the team had success I would hope for Q to just get out of the players’ way. Stop over-coaching, stop micro-managing. Stop the line-blending, stop the D-blending. There is a part of this that is possibly Q’s worst attribute. He is inconsistent in his treatment of players.

While it is true that Saad has not posted huge early stats has he been so bad as to justify this level of drama? He had a nice assist in his last game and other opportunities. His other assist was on a OT GWG. He has had chances to score. He actually missed a wide open net where the odds would have been astronomical regarding missing the net. In a situation where it was impossible to miss the net he missed it. On top of it he has worked hard on the PK.

He is clearly snake-bitten. He is clearly lacking in confidence. However, why is the focus on him? He has the same number of goals as Schmaltz - zero! He has 1 less goal than Kahun. However, they have been locks in the top 6 with no criticism.

Ask Murphy how your confidence gets shattered when you are made to feel you simply can’t make a mistake. Ask Kempny. Ask Daley.

Ask Toews and Keith a question too but the opposite one. They were awful last year. No production. Keith a +/- that was hugely minus. However there was no chance of being benched even for a shift. While you are at it ask Rutta too who does not seem to be an AHL D-Man let alone an NHL one.

Saad has had great success in the NHL. Has hit 30 goals, won 2 Cups, been paid $6M. Shouldn’t he have earned the right to work through any cold spell? He should be a fixture in the top 6. He should be playing his off-wing with Toews or his natural wing with Kane period. What did he do so fatal he deserves this level of blending and embarrassment. He is playing begind Kahun who has been OK, not dominant. He is playing behind Fortin who has shown absolutely no ability to score getting 4 goals in 53 games with Rockford and being benched for the AHL play-offs.

The problem with Q’s infantile, regressive, outdated “tough love” approach is he only has it for certain players.

I have always had a number of problems with Q’s coaching. Even in those years where the team had success I would hope for Q to just get out of the players’ way. Stop over-coaching, stop micro-managing. Stop the line-blending, stop the D-blending. There is a part of this that is possibly Q’s worst attribute. He is inconsistent in his treatment of players.

While it is true that Saad has not posted huge early stats has he been so bad as to justify this level of drama? He had a nice assist in his last game and other opportunities. His other assist was on a OT GWG. He has had chances to score. He actually missed a wide open net where the odds would have been astronomical regarding missing the net. In a situation where it was impossible to miss the net he missed it. On top of it he has worked hard on the PK.

He is clearly snake-bitten. He is clearly lacking in confidence. However, why is the focus on him? He has the same number of goals as Schmaltz - zero! He has 1 less goal than Kahun. However, they have been locks in the top 6 with no criticism.

Ask Murphy how your confidence gets shattered when you are made to feel you simply can’t make a mistake. Ask Kempny. Ask Daley.

Ask Toews and Keith a question too but the opposite one. They were awful last year. No production. Keith a +/- that was hugely minus. However there was no chance of being benched even for a shift. While you are at it ask Rutta too who does not seem to be an AHL D-Man let alone an NHL one.

Saad has had great success in the NHL. Has hit 30 goals, won 2 Cups, been paid $6M. Shouldn’t he have earned the right to work through any cold spell? He should be a fixture in the top 6. He should be playing his off-wing with Toews or his natural wing with Kane period. What did he do so fatal he deserves this level of blending and embarrassment. He is playing begind Kahun who has been OK, not dominant. He is playing behind Fortin who has shown absolutely no ability to score getting 4 goals in 53 games with Rockford and being benched for the AHL play-offs.

The problem with Q’s infantile, regressive, outdated “tough love” approach is he only has it for certain players.
- Z3Hawk

After a nice start last season (6+2=8 pts in 6 games), he’s gone 12+17=29 in his last 81.

Not real good for a full season from a top-6 player.

Something needs fixing MORE than puck luck and snake bit and just “work through any cold spell”. The comparisons to Kahun (5 games in the Show) and Fortin (2) are not relevant - we still don’t know what they are capable of.

With Saad we do: potentially 30+30=60 or thereabouts. Maybe he does need to be an eye in the sky for a game or two to better we the game from a different perspective for a while.

Sounds like Corey is going to be making his first start Thursday? Hope it's true and if so very exciting.

If Kane and Toews play as they do, i trust Saad will find his game. After all these years i like the fact Coach Q is still coaching