I'm not calling for Hak's head today, but it may be soon getting to that point. I'm not going to downplay the injuries or the shoddy goaltending, but, if this keeps up for another couple weeks, Hextall may need to pull the trigger on a coaching change.

This doesn't mean I blame Hak for all the Flyers failings. Hell, it's not like he can go out on the ice and make the routine saves that way too often both Elliott and Pickard have failed to make, but something has to give.

If this poor play/bad goaltending goes on, I really see only four choices:

1. Make a deal for a legit starting goalie.
This is a lot easier said than done as, especially early in the season, it's going to take a significant overpayment to pry that type of goalie from any team. I really don't see this happening

2. Trade a core player
Perhaps they move a guy in the last year of a deal like Simmonds, but I doubt it. Moving Giroux or Voracek isn't happening and there really is no one else that fits the bill. You rarely see trades of significant players in the early part of the season, and I don't see it happening here.

3. Move some fringe players and replace with kids from LHV
This would certainly give them a boost in the adrenaline/enthusiasm dept, but it's not going to fix systemic issues of poor defensive play, nor is going to magically improve the goaltending.

4. Fire the coach.
This is the usual M.O. in the NHL because, quite simply, it's the easiest move to make. Hakstol is in year 4 of a five year deal. When a team is underperforming, coaches in that situation tend to lose their jobs. Again, I don't think this happens today, nor am I calling for it, but it could certainly happen sooner rather than later if things don't start to improve.
- BiggE

Sigh.

This is not something I thought, coming into the season, we would be discussing.

This team is so hard to watch right now. There is no cohesion, no structure. Goalies can't make a timely saves, defense can't take seal off lanes...

This sucks.

Sigh.

This is not something I thought, coming into the season, we would be discussing.

This team is so hard to watch right now. There is no cohesion, no structure. Goalies can't make a timely saves, defense can't take seal off lanes...

This sucks.
- ggunky

Yeah, pretty much. About the only positives I can take from this season so far are: Giroux looks like he did last season, Simmonds seems healthy and back to his usual self, Lindblom seems to be progressing nicely and TK is starting to look good and Sanheim seems to be playing better each night and he is playing well with an improved Gudas. And, finally, Laughton is playing pretty well.

Sadly, that's about it. Hagg had a decent start to the season, but at times last night he was abysmal. Provorov is pressing and making way to many mistakes, Folin flat out blows, Coots is off to a slow start, the gaps between forwards and D are more like chasms than gaps and the overall defensive play and coverage has been pitiful. And, like the rotted cherry on a diarrhea sundae, the goaltending has been horrid.

I'm a diehard Flyers fan for going on a half century, but man, some of these games are getting as hard to watch as many of the games back in 06-07. This just sucks.

I'm not calling for Hak's head today, but it may be soon getting to that point. I'm not going to downplay the injuries or the shoddy goaltending, but, if this keeps up for another couple weeks, Hextall may need to pull the trigger on a coaching change.

This doesn't mean I blame Hak for all the Flyers failings. Hell, it's not like he can go out on the ice and make the routine saves that way too often both Elliott and Pickard have failed to make, but something has to give.

If this poor play/bad goaltending goes on, I really see only four choices:

1. Make a deal for a legit starting goalie.
This is a lot easier said than done as, especially early in the season, it's going to take a significant overpayment to pry that type of goalie from any team. I really don't see this happening

2. Trade a core player
Perhaps they move a guy in the last year of a deal like Simmonds, but I doubt it. Moving Giroux or Voracek isn't happening and there really is no one else that fits the bill. You rarely see trades of significant players in the early part of the season, and I don't see it happening here.

3. Move some fringe players and replace with kids from LHV
This would certainly give them a boost in the adrenaline/enthusiasm dept, but it's not going to fix systemic issues of poor defensive play, nor is going to magically improve the goaltending.

4. Fire the coach.
This is the usual M.O. in the NHL because, quite simply, it's the easiest move to make. Hakstol is in year 4 of a five year deal. When a team is underperforming, coaches in that situation tend to lose their jobs. Again, I don't think this happens today, nor am I calling for it, but it could certainly happen sooner rather than later if things don't start to improve.
- BiggE

I am wondering if they can make a deal with another under performing team. I keep thinking about the Blues. They looked to be going all in and right now are not really performing well. Elliott played really well for them before and Allen has kind of been up a down fro them. I know he is signed 2 more years after this but he is 28 and could be a good tandem moving forward with Hart.

I know Allen's numbers aren't great but maybe a change helps.

Also with Howard having one year left would Detroit move him? He is a proven winner in Detroit.

I know it may seem like a knee jerk move but this team is expected to be a playoff team and contend to win a round or possibly two. If goal tending is going to hold them back that is unacceptable.

Sucks that they have to rely on him again but I think the next logicla step will be going back to Neuvirth. Elliott will get the cage on Sat but I suspect Neuvirth will be back in the mix quickly.

Pickard is not an NHL goalie. If not for the 2 wins Id question whether they wouldve been better off giving Stolie a shot.

Yeah, pretty much. About the only positives I can take from this season so far are: Giroux looks like he did last season, Simmonds seems healthy and back to his usual self, Lindblom seems to be progressing nicely and TK is starting to look good and Sanheim seems to be playing better each night and he is playing well with an improved Gudas. And, finally, Laughton is playing pretty well.

Sadly, that's about it. Hagg had a decent start to the season, but at times last night he was abysmal. Provorov is pressing and making way to many mistakes, Folin flat out blows, Coots is off to a slow start, the gaps between forwards and D are more like chasms than gaps and the overall defensive play and coverage has been pitiful. And, like the rotted cherry on a diarrhea sundae, the goaltending has been horrid.

I'm a diehard Flyers fan for going on a half century, but man, some of these games are getting as hard to watch as many of the games back in 06-07. This just sucks.
- BiggE

This is where Clarke would make a trade to shake things up.

I am not saying trade a Jake or G, but to move someone, to wake up that locker room, to get attention of the players.

The really annoying thing is that Hak hasn't implemented a whole new system they are all trying to learn. So there is no excuse for the poor coverage and players looking like they have no idea where they are supposed to be.

What Hak DOES need to nip in the bud immediately is the lack of attention to detail and the poor decision making. Forwards aren't back checking.

As for the poopty goalie play, that is a viscous circle. It seems defense and goaltenders don't trust each other. Goalies because defense is leaving them hanging out to dry too often, and defense because goalies are letting in too many softies and not making any momentum saves.

Add to that how the forwards are not supporting defense.

That is on Hak to make sure the leadership and players start doing what they are supposed to do. Giroux, Simmonds, Amac, cant bench players or take away ice time. And that is what has to happen.

Yeah, pretty much. About the only positives I can take from this season so far are: Giroux looks like he did last season, Simmonds seems healthy and back to his usual self, Lindblom seems to be progressing nicely and TK is starting to look good and Sanheim seems to be playing better each night and he is playing well with an improved Gudas. And, finally, Laughton is playing pretty well.

Sadly, that's about it. Hagg had a decent start to the season, but at times last night he was abysmal. Provorov is pressing and making way to many mistakes, Folin flat out blows, Coots is off to a slow start, the gaps between forwards and D are more like chasms than gaps and the overall defensive play and coverage has been pitiful. And, like the rotted cherry on a diarrhea sundae, the goaltending has been horrid.

I'm a diehard Flyers fan for going on a half century, but man, some of these games are getting as hard to watch as many of the games back in 06-07. This just sucks.
- BiggE

Hextall will have to do something. With expectations on making and possibly winning a round or two in the playoffs, which the GM as said should happen, he can only wait so long. Getting Patrick back will help but something might have to give.

It’s all YJ’s fault.
- VladDrag

this guy gets it

I could see Craig Anderson being a temporary fix. Ottawa really doesn’t need him atm, they will want picks. And we could likely get them to take Elliot or Nuevirth back in the deal.

Maybe even take on bobby Ryan if Ottawa eats 3 million of his contract. I know... I know... but I’m not one of the Ryan needs to come home people. Still doesn’t address the defense but the way Simmonds is playing his value isn’t going to be higher and his current play is outpricing him to stay with the flyers. We could get a really solid defenseman for him.

Giroux-couturier-Konecny
JVR-Patrick-Voracek
Lindblom-Weal-Ryan
Laughton-Voroboyov/Weal-Raffl

Provorov-Ghost
????-Sanheim
AMac-Gudas/Hagg

Anderson
Elliot/Nuevirth

I am wondering if they can make a deal with another under performing team. I keep thinking about the Blues. They looked to be going all in and right now are not really performing well. Elliott played really well for them before and Allen has kind of been up a down fro them. I know he is signed 2 more years after this but he is 28 and could be a good tandem moving forward with Hart.

I know Allen's numbers aren't great but maybe a change helps.

Also with Howard having one year left would Detroit move him? He is a proven winner in Detroit.

I know it may seem like a knee jerk move but this team is expected to be a playoff team and contend to win a round or possibly two. If goal tending is going to hold them back that is unacceptable.
- J35Bacher

If either Detroit or St. Louis was willing to make a move like that, I'm all in, but I can't see any team taking a chance on Elliott right now. Detroit may be willing to part with Howard, and might even agree to take on Elliott as part of the deal, but they are also going to likely want a pick or prospect too.

The Blues probably feel they are a quality starting goalie away from being a Cup contender. I really don't think they see an aging and struggling Brian Elliott as that guy.

This is where Clarke would make a trade to shake things up.

I am not saying trade a Jake or G, but to move someone, to wake up that locker room, to get attention of the players.
- ggunky

True, but it was much easier to make those type of shake up deals prior to the cap.

The really annoying thing is that Hak hasn't implemented a whole new system they are all trying to learn. So there is no excuse for the poor coverage and players looking like they have no idea where they are supposed to be.

What Hak DOES need to nip in the bud immediately is the lack of attention to detail and the poor decision making. Forwards aren't back checking.

As for the poopty goalie play, that is a viscous circle. It seems defense and goaltenders don't trust each other. Goalies because defense is leaving them hanging out to dry too often, and defense because goalies are letting in too many softies and not making any momentum saves.

Add to that how the forwards are not supporting defense.

That is on Hak to make sure the leadership and players start doing what they are supposed to do. Giroux, Simmonds, Amac, cant bench players or take away ice time. And that is what has to happen.
- MBFlyerfan

This is what concerns me. Have they tuned Hak out? If that is the case, a major trade or a coaching change are really the only options.

At least we don't have too many rookies making dumb rookie plays all over the place and losing us games

If either Detroit or St. Louis was willing to make a move like that, I'm all in, but I can't see any team taking a chance on Elliott right now. Detroit may be willing to part with Howard, and might even agree to take on Elliott as part of the deal, but they are also going to likely want a pick or prospect too.

The Blues probably feel they are a quality starting goalie away from being a Cup contender. I really don't think they see an aging and struggling Brian Elliott as that guy.
- BiggE

Howard might not be much as he is UFA after the year. Swap Elliot and conditional 5th turns to 4th if we make the playoffs and 3rd if we win a round?

Also I think if things don't change a core guy might be gone. Simmonds' value probably is really high, especially showing he is healthy. The guy I would move, and yes I am a little bias, would be Voracek. Also I don't need picks and prospects. i think you could make a hockey trade

As dominant as Giroux-Couturier-Voracek can be I think they need to split up. Its too many eggs in 1 basket and makes it tough to win unless theyre playing lights out. I also think Couturier is being over worked, hopefully Patrick's return can help with that.

When Healthy:

Giroux Patrick Voracek
Laughton(JVR) Couturier Simmonds
Lindblom Weal Konecny
Lehtera Vorobyev Raffl

I don't think Hextall is giving up much for a goalie with Hart on the way.

If there is going to be a shake up I think it's Simmonds mid season or Voracek in the off-season.

Aside from the goaltending the entire team defense sucks. This has to go on the coach and I have no confidence in Hak to fix it. Alain Vigneault would look much better behind the bench.

I don't think Hextall is giving up much for a goalie with Hart on the way.

If there is going to be a shake up I think it's Simmonds mid season or Voracek in the off-season.
- hereticpride

you can have bob for a small price

Howard might not be much as he is UFA after the year. Swap Elliot and conditional 5th turns to 4th if we make the playoffs and 3rd if we win a round?

Also I think if things don't change a core guy might be gone. Simmonds' value probably is really high, especially showing he is healthy. The guy I would move, and yes I am a little bias, would be Voracek. Also I don't need picks and prospects. i think you could make a hockey trade
- J35Bacher

If they could land Howard for that deal, I'd make the trade. Voracek is a tough guy to move, because when he's playing well he is a legit first line RW and the only one they have. However, if you can make a hockey trade where the deal brings back a top pair Dman, than I'd be fine with it. Perhaps you package Jake with a current Dman for a significantly better Dman and a solid two way winger. Again, mainly due to the cap, these deals are hard to make.

Moving Simmonds would be easier, but I think you still need to wait until at least mid season and hope to get multiple teams interested which will likely lead to someone seriously overpaying for him.

I don't think Hextall is giving up much for a goalie with Hart on the way.

If there is going to be a shake up I think it's Simmonds mid season or Voracek in the off-season.
- hereticpride

One of the reasons I like Ryan if Ottawa takes 3 million is we can buy him out right before an expansion draft and We wont be on the hook for too much. Just looking for a culture change as well.

Then again a Simmonds for Panarin deal straight up is tempting.

I don't think Hextall is giving up much for a goalie with Hart on the way.

If there is going to be a shake up I think it's Simmonds mid season or Voracek in the off-season.
- hereticpride

Obviously he cant do something crazy but Id like to see it addressed. Pretty tough situation for Hart to come in as "the saviour" if there isnt even another viable goaltending option on the team. Im sure there is already more pressure on him than theyd like.

If they could land Howard for that deal, I'd make the trade. Voracek is a tough guy to move, because when he's playing well he is a legit first line RW and the only one they have. However, if you can make a hockey trade where the deal brings back a top pair Dman, than I'd be fine with it. Perhaps you package Jake with a current Dman for a significantly better Dman and a solid two way winger. Again, mainly due to the cap, these deals are hard to make.

Moving Simmonds would be easier, but I think you still need to wait until at least mid season and hope to get multiple teams interested which will likely lead to someone seriously overpaying for him.
- BiggE

This is where I was kind of thinking. Can Voracek get you Pietrangelo? I know Provorov is supposed to be our true number one but maybe they need more of a vet type guy. I know we have vets like Gudas and MacDonald but maybe they need a legit number one to help this young defense.

This is where I was kind of thinking. Can Voracek get you Pietrangelo? I know Provorov is supposed to be our true number one but maybe they need more of a vet type guy. I know we have vets like Gudas and MacDonald but maybe they need a legit number one to help this young defense.
- J35Bacher

St Louis isn’t moving Pietrangelo. I’m not sure what a possible deal would or could like. These things just rarely happen and are very difficult to do.

The really annoying thing is that Hak hasn't implemented a whole new system they are all trying to learn. So there is no excuse for the poor coverage and players looking like they have no idea where they are supposed to be.

What Hak DOES need to nip in the bud immediately is the lack of attention to detail and the poor decision making. Forwards aren't back checking.

As for the poopty goalie play, that is a viscous circle. It seems defense and goaltenders don't trust each other. Goalies because defense is leaving them hanging out to dry too often, and defense because goalies are letting in too many softies and not making any momentum saves.

Add to that how the forwards are not supporting defense.

That is on Hak to make sure the leadership and players start doing what they are supposed to do. Giroux, Simmonds, Amac, cant bench players or take away ice time. And that is what has to happen.
- MBFlyerfan

Exactly! The core of this team has been here since Hak started. It’s hard to understand that so many guys don’t know what their job defensively is and where they are supposed to be.
Seems like their is not much accountability and players don’t want to do what it takes to play defense. Unless your a rookie or young player guys aren’t scratched or benched during games.

Poopty goaltending aside the quality of dangerous scoring chances is appalling.