I feel like JR hog tied the pens defense. Is there really anyway to upgrade the pens defense? Maybe trading maatta+ for a guy like trouba. Trading Jack Johnson doesn’t seem possible since JR had to have him.

If the pens offense stalls, there’s always moves that can be made there. ZAR can be called up, hagelin could be traded, and even brassard could be traded if they need help on the wings. The defense just seems like it’s permanent

Leafs had an off night for sure, but the Pens are always dangerous.

Also, could Wilson be more of a downer all the time? His page is becoming like Tanner's. I just come her for the nonsense.

Yeah it’s weird, I like all the stats too but now that I know where to find them, I don’t really need RW to post them. Not to mention there are even more stats he could be posting. I wish there was a little bit more video analysis other than the odd gifs. I prefer Jesse Marshall’s blogs the most but they’re few and far between over at the athletic because his blogs are usually over a stretch of a few games and focus on a theme.
- j.boyd919

But that’s really what you want out of an analytics blogs. Analytics main function is to identify which players are over valued and undervalued over a large sample size. What is the actual utility of focusing on one night’s data when anyone can have a good game or a bad game on a night to night basis. To discuss who played well and who didn’t on any given night the numbers are just not that interesting compared to dissecting individual plays that stood out.

I also don’t find a ton of utility in Wilson’s blogs anymore. I could probably do what he publishes most nights myself at this point. What I can’t do is deep dive into the nuances of individual plays which Wilson does once in a blue moon and Marshal does on an article-to-article basis.

Leafs had an off night for sure, but the Pens are always dangerous.

Also, could Wilson be more of a downer all the time? His page is becoming like Tanner's. I just come her for the nonsense.
- LeafsPain54

Except it wasn't.

It was their 2nd best game of the season in terms of 5v5 HDCF/60

and 4th best in terms of 5v5 SCF/60

I thought the Pens played a real good game, we had some chances but they weren't really that dangerous...Leafs could have used a call or 2 from the refs but that's the way she goes.

Good game by the Pens, took away most of the Leafs time and space.

Next time we're going to cream you though.
- Garnie

That's what I noticed too. Credit to the pens for outworking the leafs, they frustrated and nullified the high-octane offence.

So what I’m gathering from this is that the guy who’s played hockey is entire life can’t recognize when one team has more scoring opportunities than the other. Because the pens had like 5-6 opportunities at best that were prime chances and that’s if you even count the PP goal that was a terrible angle shot. The leafs on that highlight reel alone had like 8-9.
- j.boyd919

Maybe i'll just watch the highlights only for now on - 8-9...but IMO they only had a couple golden opportunites which Murray made look easy ( son of a female dog )....highlights showed 1 pp goal for the Pens in the 1st even though they had 17 shots. ( poop goal, I agree )

They shut down the players they needed too for most of the game. IMO

You guys missed a 3 on 1 from the hash marks...another slap blast x2 over the cross bar from the same spot almost....

So what I’m gathering from this is that the guy who’s played hockey is entire life can’t recognize when one team has more scoring opportunities than the other. Because the pens had like 5-6 opportunities at best that were prime chances and that’s if you even count the PP goal that was a terrible angle shot. The leafs on that highlight reel alone had like 8-9.
- j.boyd919

Boyd did you watch the game?

I did and understand where both you and the guy you're arguing with are coming from. The Pens really did outwork the Leafs for a majority of the game...but the Leafs did have several more HDSC's. The great defensive pressure and winning of those battles is leading a lot of people who watched it to believe the Pens played better than the Leafs....and they are not wrong when it comes to who had mostly the better effort/battle level. Babcock and every Leaf interviewed are agreeing that the Pens were the better team last night.

But that’s really what you want out of an analytics blogs. Analytics main function is to identify which players are over valued and undervalued over a large sample size. What is the actual utility of focusing on one night’s data when anyone can have a good game or a bad game on a night to night basis. To discuss who played well and who didn’t on any given night the numbers are just not that interesting compared to dissecting individual plays that stood out.

I also don’t find a ton of utility in Wilson’s blogs anymore. I could probably do what he publishes most nights myself at this point. What I can’t do is deep dive into the nuances of individual plays which Wilson does once in a blue moon and Marshal does on an article-to-article basis.
- Victoro311

Exactly. That’s kinda what I was saying in a sense that he briefly touches on stats but he could go further. Although none of the readers here would really want him to. Pretty sure he’s kind of catering to the board a bit. Mostly everyone complains about the charts and graphs. So he leaves most of them out. I for one like to see the game flow chart, the heat map chart, it was a pleasant surprise seeing the individual best map for Mathews. I like seeing those too. But most people complain about him. He’s probably mailing it in on these blogs because the majority of the board doesn’t like his approach. They would be my guess.

Except it wasn't.

It was their 2nd best game of the season in terms of 5v5 HDCF/60

and 4th best in terms of 5v5 SCF/60
- Feds91Stammer

Except it was....it wasn't line 1/2 getting the chances.

Exactly. That’s kinda what I was saying in a sense that he briefly touches on stats but he could go further. Although none of the readers here would really want him to. Pretty sure he’s kind of catering to the board a bit. Mostly everyone complains about the charts and graphs. So he leaves most of them out. I for one like to see the game flow chart, the heat map chart, it was a pleasant surprise seeing the individual best map for Mathews. I like seeing those too. But most people complain about him. He’s probably mailing it in on these blogs because the majority of the board doesn’t like his approach. They would be my guess.
- j.boyd919

I miss the longer stat saturated blogs myself. I always find the stats interesting, never ever take them to be the be all, end all though.

But that’s really what you want out of an analytics blogs. Analytics main function is to identify which players are over valued and undervalued over a large sample size. What is the actual utility of focusing on one night’s data when anyone can have a good game or a bad game on a night to night basis. To discuss who played well and who didn’t on any given night the numbers are just not that interesting compared to dissecting individual plays that stood out.

I also don’t find a ton of utility in Wilson’s blogs anymore. I could probably do what he publishes most nights myself at this point. What I can’t do is deep dive into the nuances of individual plays which Wilson does once in a blue moon and Marshal does on an article-to-article basis.
- Victoro311

Absolutely nothing. These bloggers have misused the data for years

Boyd did you watch the game?

I did and understand where both you and the guy you're arguing with are coming from. The Pens really did outwork the Leafs for a majority of the game...but the Leafs did have several more HDSC's. The great defensive pressure and winning of those battles is leading a lot of people who watched it to believe the Pens played better than the Leafs....and they are not wrong when it comes to who had mostly the better effort/battle level. Babcock and every Leaf interviewed are agreeing that the Pens were the better team last night.
- MattStrat

Yessir. I did. Watched the entire game.

I thought the Pens played well. I don’t buy into the “outplayed” or “effort” montra. When it comes down to it, the leafs had better scoring opportunities than the Pens. It’s as simple as that. Scoring opportunities lead to goals. The team that had better/more scoring opportunities played better than the team that had less in my opinion. I don’t care who looked like they were hustling or who won this battle or that battle because in the end, what does it mean if the other team had more chances than the Pens? If the Pens won 50/50 puck battles but still gave him 6 more scoring chances than the Pens. All that hustle and work means nothing if there aren’t tangible results (scoring opportunities) this why I said the game was overall even and the leafs had better chances.

Also don’t buy into interviews one bit. Had the Leafs buried a few of their prime chances, it would have been Sully and the Pens saying the same thing. Those interviews are 95% of the time score affected.

RW, why was this all Jack Johnson's fault?

Yessir. I did. Watched the entire game.

I thought the Pens played well. I don’t buy into the “outplayed” or “effort” montra. When it comes down to it, the leafs had better scoring opportunities than the Pens. It’s as simple as that. Scoring opportunities lead to goals. The team that had better/more scoring opportunities played better than the team that had less in my opinion. I don’t care who looked like they were hustling or who won this battle or that battle because in the end, what does it mean if the other team had more chances than the Pens? If the Pens won 50/50 puck battles but still gave him 6 more scoring chances than the Pens. All that hustle and work means nothing if there aren’t tangible results (scoring opportunities) this why I said the game was overall even and the leafs had better chances.

Also don’t buy into interviews one bit. Had the Leafs buried a few of their prime chances, it would have been Sully and the Pens saying the same thing. Those interviews are 95% of the time score affected.
- j.boyd919

You outplayed lines 1 and 2...that will win you a lot of games over a season.

Yessir. I did. Watched the entire game.

I thought the Pens played well. I don’t buy into the “outplayed” or “effort” montra. When it comes down to it, the leafs had better scoring opportunities than the Pens. It’s as simple as that. Scoring opportunities lead to goals. The team that had better/more scoring opportunities played better than the team that had less in my opinion. I don’t care who looked like they were hustling or who won this battle or that battle because in the end, what does it mean if the other team had more chances than the Pens? If the Pens won 50/50 puck battles but still gave him 6 more scoring chances than the Pens. All that hustle and work means nothing if there aren’t tangible results (scoring opportunities) this why I said the game was overall even and the leafs had better chances.

Also don’t buy into interviews one bit. Had the Leafs buried a few of their prime chances, it would have been Sully and the Pens saying the same thing. Those interviews are 95% of the time score affected.
- j.boyd919

I get where you're coming from, really do. I tend to think the team that out hustled and outworked played better. Quite a few HDSCs come from weird or wack puck bounces or player situations such as blowing a tire or breaking a twig.

You outplayed lines 1 and 2...that will win you a lot of games over a season.
- Garnie

I agree the Matthews line got shut down. But the Tavares line had plenty of chances. I believe the Matthews/Crosby lines basically neutralized each other where’s the Malkin/Tavares lines were trading chances. And neither of them scored. And the Kadri line thoroughly outplayed the Pens they were matched up against. That line had plenty of opportunities. And Kadri is a damn skilled hockey player.

Except it was....it wasn't line 1/2 getting the chances.
- Garnie

Oh so the chances only count if the top line is getting them?

I get where you're coming from, really do. I tend to think the team that out hustled and outworked played better. Quite a few HDSCs come from weird or wack puck bounces or player situations such as blowing a tire or breaking a twig.
- MattStrat

Yep. I agree. Although I wouldn’t say “quite a few.” I’d say over the course of a game maybe 2 or 3. The problem with the whole hustling thing is some people can see players “hustling” and “skating their ass off” compared to another player that looks “disinterested” and “lazy” but really it’s just the dude hustling is out of position and chasing his man or the puck whereas the guy who looks “disinterested” is actually exactly where he’s supposed to be and the play just isn’t coming to him. Not saying this is you, but it’s a common idea on my beer league team. “I’d much rather have a guy on my line that hustles than this dummy that stands around.” Well dudes standing around because he’s in the right position waiting for the play to come to him, as he should.

I feel like JR hog tied the pens defense. Is there really anyway to upgrade the pens defense? Maybe trading maatta+ for a guy like trouba. Trading Jack Johnson doesn’t seem possible since JR had to have him.

If the pens offense stalls, there’s always moves that can be made there. ZAR can be called up, hagelin could be traded, and even brassard could be traded if they need help on the wings. The defense just seems like it’s permanent
- drummer829

I don’t think Maatta gets you Trouba. That ship as sailed IMO. JJ is stuck with us. I can’t imagine any team wants that albatross contract. Only chips the Pens have are 1sts and Sprong. And no one wants Sprong at the moment.

Yep. I agree. Although I wouldn’t say “quite a few.” I’d say over the course of a game maybe 2 or 3. The problem with the whole hustling thing is some people can see players “hustling” and “skating their ass off” compared to another player that looks “disinterested” and “lazy” but really it’s just the dude hustling is out of position and chasing his man or the puck whereas the guy who looks “disinterested” is actually exactly where he’s supposed to be and the play just isn’t coming to him. Not saying this is you, but it’s a common idea on my beer league team. “I’d much rather have a guy on my line that hustles than this dummy that stands around.” Well dudes standing around because he’s in the right position waiting for the play to come to him, as he should.
- j.boyd919

I was more so speaking of how much better they were to lose pucks, at 50/50 board battles and smothering the Leafs with defensive pressure. Also, the Leafs didnt get many second or third chances around the net.

Post the shot heat map if you get a chance. I feel more of their shots were from the outside than the Pens but I could be wrong.

I was more so speaking of how much better they were to lose pucks, at 50/50 board battles and smothering the Leafs with defensive pressure. Also, the Leafs didnt get many second or third chances around the net.

Post the shot heat map if you get a chance. I feel more of their shots were from the outside than the Pens but I could be wrong.
- MattStrat

I get where you're coming from, really do. I tend to think the team that out hustled and outworked played better. Quite a few HDSCs come from weird or wack puck bounces or player situations such as blowing a tire or breaking a twig.
- MattStrat

That Anderson goal on the Flyers last night.

- j.boyd919

Those take into account missed shots too correct? We missed the net on a few great chances

So Crosby, Malkin, Kessel Vs Tavaras, Matthews is not a nationally broadcasted game?

Looking at EDM, Crosby vs MCD still not a national game?

Why is the NHL so stupid?
- sammy87

I don't think we have enough time to answer that question...

Oh so the chances only count if the top line is getting them?
- Feds91Stammer

Who would you rather give up chances to....John Tavares and Auston Matthews or Connor Brown and Josh Leivo?