Last night, I reviewed every PPGA in the Flyers games so far. While I can't completely remove the Flyers strategy from the root cause, by far the issues were simple player execution. Right down to simple fundamentals such as stick positioning. I'm in favor of being more aggressive but I don't see that as a clear fix. It has the potential to open up other issues.
- MJL

PK is not rocket science - I'm not surprised by your observations.

I don't think "Stand back and wave your stick around" is going to work no matter how many times you try it. Teams are way more skilled now than they were 10 years ago, even 5 years ago, and the passive box allows the skilled players to slowly pick you apart.

If they're more aggressive, yes, it draws you out of position, but it also forces these players to execute plays with less time and space. So sure, you're gonna get beat some times, but I'd rather have the Flyers FORCE them to score than ALLOW them to score.
- jmatchett383

exactly...but hey...players should be waving their sticks better

The man can sink with his favourite no talent-try hards as far as I am concerned.

He is well on his way.

PK is not rocket science - I'm not surprised by your observations.
- Scoob

They should hire me as PK coach, I would teach the players a new system. I call it catch and chase.

As soon as a PK player has a chance, shove puck in pants and skate around and have other players chase them while yelling "I got it, I got it".

I don't think "Stand back and wave your stick around" is going to work no matter how many times you try it. Teams are way more skilled now than they were 10 years ago, even 5 years ago, and the passive box allows the skilled players to slowly pick you apart.

If they're more aggressive, yes, it draws you out of position, but it also forces these players to execute plays with less time and space. So sure, you're gonna get beat some times, but I'd rather have the Flyers FORCE them to score than ALLOW them to score.
- jmatchett383

Sure, I don’t believe the plan is supposed to be what we are seeing sometimes. It is poor execution the makes what we see so inconsistent.

Whatever or not they need to be even more aggressive or change out personnel or make defensive adjustments is still open for debate. But they do need to consistently execute and they aren’t right now.

You can have the greatest PK plan in the world and if the players dont execute then it doesnt mean anything.

To me what is going right now is a function of the players not executing more then it is anything else.

Sure, I don’t believe the plan is supposed to be what we are seeing sometimes. It is poor execution the makes what we see so inconsistent.

Whatever or not they need to be even more aggressive or change out personnel or make defensive adjustments is still open for debate. But they do need to consistently execute and they aren’t right now.
- NC Flyers Fan

To discredit the notion that it isn’t at all a system issue is wrong in my eyes. It’s clear as day that once the other team sets up, the Flyers fall back into a passive box. They have continuously done so, and can continue to have it shoved up their ass.

This is one of the most passive PK’s in the league, and it reflects in its success.

Sure, I don’t believe the plan is supposed to be what we are seeing sometimes. It is poor execution the makes what we see so inconsistent.

Whatever or not they need to be even more aggressive or change out personnel or make defensive adjustments is still open for debate. But they do need to consistently execute and they aren’t right now.
- NC Flyers Fan

Look, I agree that they players need to execute better. Failed clears and blown coverages are big factors. But just staying back and trying to clog up passing lanes doesn't work anymore, and if that is not the plan, then every PK group that has been deployed over the past 3 seasons is rebelling against the coaching staff, because they all do (outside of 3 games in the 2016 playoffs).

To discredit the notion that it isn’t at all a system issue is wrong in my eyes. It’s clear as day that once the other team sets up, the Flyers fall back into a passive box. They have continuously done so, and can continue to have it shoved up their ass.

This is one of the most passive PK’s in the league, and it reflects in its success.
- flyer_nutter

You also can't discredit execution either. I think that the 2 are tied together, but it doesn't matter what PK you use if the players can't execute it.

I feel they'd have a better chance at executing a higher-pressure PK, but they'd still need to execute it.

You also can't discredit execution either. I think that the 2 are tied together, but it doesn't matter what PK you use if the players can't execute it.

I feel they'd have a better chance at executing a higher-pressure PK, but they'd still need to execute it.
- jmatchett383

For sure. It’s truly a mix. Better goaltending would go a long way, as would overall execution.

I just think it’s kind of funny to keep trotting out Lappy and that nonsense passive box year after year. Hell even the Oilers tried to bring in a fresh voice this offseason for that PK.

To discredit the notion that it isn’t at all a system issue is wrong in my eyes. It’s clear as day that once the other team sets up, the Flyers fall back into a passive box. They have continuously done so, and can continue to have it shoved up their ass.

This is one of the most passive PK’s in the league, and it reflects in its success.
- flyer_nutter

Maybe the coaches AND players feel they can't execute any other way with what they have so they "play it safe".

Maybe the coaches AND players feel they can't execute any other way with what they have so they "play it safe".
- Glak18

Hextall obviously feels Lappy’s approach is good enough.

You can have the greatest PK plan in the world and if the players dont execute then it doesnt mean anything.

To me what is going right now is a function of the players not executing more then it is anything else.
- opeth_pa

You can also have a poopty PK plan where players don't execute

Not that I don't love circular arguments, but question for gamers.

There was a game, maybe a Duke Nukem, where you could open up a screen of some sort covering a monitor (maybe by pressing spacebar, like you'd do to open a door in Doom), and the monitor had scenes of women having sex, maybe just their faces. This was a pre-2000 PC game. Can anyone let me know what game this is, it's driving me crazy that I can't remember.

That’s fine with me, IMO, he’s one more lazy stick penalty from a seat in the Cote suite
- BiggE

I would have benched him by now for the countless penalties he’s committed over the last several games. But hey I’m no coach.

1) Not fair examples. Those players have often been higher up in the ineup and have moved down recently

2) Weise and Lehtera have palyed well of late so Im not sure why they are ousted as the problem. The team is not going to magically play better by removing guys that play maybe 10 mins a game. Main purpose of a fourth line is to go out there, not get scored on and let top 3 lines rest. If you look at the 4th line around the league, they arent scoring many goals. I looked at teams like WSH, PIT, WPG and their 4th line has 1 goal a piece.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

So Weise and Lehtera are good hockey players and Weal is not, got it.

Also, that highlighted line above has to be a joke right?

Look, I agree that they players need to execute better. Failed clears and blown coverages are big factors. But just staying back and trying to clog up passing lanes doesn't work anymore, and if that is not the plan, then every PK group that has been deployed over the past 3 seasons is rebelling against the coaching staff, because they all do (outside of 3 games in the 2016 playoffs).
- jmatchett383

I thought that it has looked less passive in several of the successful kills this season. Definitely more aggressive than last season. The slot and down low play has been extremely passive when I feel that should be some of the most aggressive play.

So Weise and Lehtera are good hockey players and Weal is not, got it.

Also, that highlighted line above has to be a joke right?
- ajw12

Well, I wasn’t sure so I ignored that.

Look, I agree that they players need to execute better. Failed clears and blown coverages are big factors. But just staying back and trying to clog up passing lanes doesn't work anymore, and if that is not the plan, then every PK group that has been deployed over the past 3 seasons is rebelling against the coaching staff, because they all do (outside of 3 games in the 2016 playoffs).
- jmatchett383

truth is you can't put all the blame on the coaches and you can't put all the blame on the players.

Truth- sometimes you fire a coach because the players have failed so much they have tuned the coach out, sometimes you fire a coach because you just need to start over...

They are there with Lappy...

I know what you are saying here. I guess I just like Vorobyev more. Might be more of a preference. He is obviously raw in some areas, but I like the elite vision and passing I saw.
- NC Flyers Fan

I like him better also. He's just not better right now.

What other issues could it open up...goals scored against the PK? I am not asking for a full overhaul just 1 aggressive unit with the players to execute it. I watch other teams apply an aggressive approach towards them and it absolutely kills momentum for them.
- Glak18

I hear you on that. I just think they could be swapping in another issue that compounds the fundamental issues they have. That's really the point and the same point the coaches see. The breakdowns are not due to system or strategy issues. The breakdowns are due to player mistakes.

To discredit the notion that it isn’t at all a system issue is wrong in my eyes. It’s clear as day that once the other team sets up, the Flyers fall back into a passive box. They have continuously done so, and can continue to have it shoved up their ass.

This is one of the most passive PK’s in the league, and it reflects in its success.
- flyer_nutter

The strategy and style that the Flyers employ has been used successfully by many teams. A more aggressive strategy requires the same thing. Execution. They have had positioning issues in this system but we shouldn't expect the same if they are out and more aggressive on pressuring the puck?

If you actually looked at it and break it down rather than just guessing and parroting an opinion, you'd see what is actually happening.

Not that I don't love circular arguments, but question for gamers.

There was a game, maybe a Duke Nukem, where you could open up a screen of some sort covering a monitor (maybe by pressing spacebar, like you'd do to open a door in Doom), and the monitor had scenes of women having sex, maybe just their faces. This was a pre-2000 PC game. Can anyone let me know what game this is, it's driving me crazy that I can't remember.
- jmatchett383

Leisure suit Larry?

Leisure suit Larry?
- Just5

Not THAT graphic.

The PK might go from 30th to 31st without Raffl. Devastating!

How much closer to a Stanley Cup are the Flyers now, then when Hextall took over?
- PLindbergh31

Since you live for pathetic ineptness and losses of the teams you follow, you should be on a Giants forum 24/7