Were we not supposed to be doomed without Evander Kane and Ryan O'Reilly? whatever happened to that? Did it get cancelled?
- Sabresfan-365

I mean we did get Skinner. If we didn't have Skinner we'd be much worse off.

For me, them being comparable speaks to his offensive production at even strength/5v5

There areas of the game where ROR is far better, there's no doubt. But, when you make 7.5 million, you have to create more offense at ES/5v5 than the average 3rd liner.

And to your other point about eichel/sobotka....its not. Actual top line players wont have there primary points per 60 look identical to fourth liners because they're actually making the most of their usage.

If they were close, we'd have a huge (frank)ing problem,..... kinda like last year when our 7.5 million dollar centre was producing like a third liner....

You're correct that one stat is an incomplete evaluation. But its still an important stat and if one of your top paid players is coming up short, it warrants further investigation into the players overall performance.
- Sabresfan-365

Last week,
when someone posted the pts/60 stays for the Sabres forwards...
Sobatka & Eichel had very similar numbers

The stat is garbage when presented in that fashion

I mean we did get Skinner. If we didn't have Skinner we'd be much worse off.
- Wetbandit1

would we have added skinner if ROR and Kane were still here? probably not

Last week,
when someone posted the pts/60 stays for the Sabres forwards...
Sobatka & Eichel had very similar numbers

The stat is garbage when presented in that fashion
- jdfitz77

was this on opening night by any chance?

They're not even close.


Edit: Sobotka has zero primary points 5v5 and one goal on the year so whoever posted that can't read and/or count.

Apparently.

In all seriousness him blending in st louis rather than being a focal point here will be great for him
- Sabresfan-365

I think that was the main focus of the trade. JBotts didnt want to pay that contract to a guy who couldnt be the captain. He wasnt a bad player, he was just handed that contract by a different GM who thought he was going to get a leader out of it.

was this on opening night by any chance?

They're not even close.
- Sabresfan-365

It was like a week ago
Don’t remember the exact date

I even did this last year showing how many inferior defensemen had similar numbers to Karlsson

U can’t compare guy with different levels of icetime bc Points Scored doesn’t increase at the same intervals for most players

What I’m trying to say here:
Let’s say a 4th liner gets 20pts a season, playing 10min per night
Giving him 20min a night the next year doesn’t mean he’s gonna score 40pts
It ALMOST NEVER works out like that

And it’s also VERY INCOMPLETE in the ways i pointed out earlier

I think that was the main focus of the trade. JBotts didnt want to pay that contract to a guy who couldnt be the captain. He wasnt a bad player, he was just handed that contract by a different GM who thought he was going to get a leader out of it.
- seedy

Probably, not to mention the lingering back issues.

Suzy Kolber really just said the Pats offense is underrated
Huh?

I do not care if others do or do not care about 5v5 p/60.

Last week,
when someone posted the pts/60 stays for the Sabres forwards...
Sobatka & Eichel had very similar numbers

The stat is garbage when presented in that fashion
- jdfitz77

Dude, you are using like a 5 game sample

Come on now.

If Sobokta went on a hot streak and scored more points than Eichel over 5 games and someone posted there point totals would that mean he’s better??

It was like a week ago
Don’t remember the exact date

I even did this last year showing how many inferior defensemen had similar numbers to Karlsson

U can’t compare guy with different levels of icetime bc Points Scored doesn’t increase at the same intervals for most players

What I’m trying to say here:
Let’s say a 4th liner gets 20pts a season, playing 10min per night
Giving him 20min a night the next year doesn’t mean he’s gonna score 40pts
It ALMOST NEVER works out like that

And it’s also VERY INCOMPLETE in the ways i pointed out earlier
- jdfitz77

Girgensons nearly doubled his goal total when he got a bump in minutes playing on the tank team. There's actually plenty of cases of that, and you'd read it the other way around. The p/60 wouldn't change so you'd say his increase isn't actually because he's a better player, it's because they've just given him so many more opportunities.

The only way an inferior d-man had a better p/60 than Karlsson is if he played 1 game, 5 mins and scored 2 points during that.

You gotta adjust the TOI min on the search

Points per 60 minimum 1000 mins played:

1. Erik Karlsson

would we have added skinner if ROR and Kane were still here? probably not
- Sabresfan-365

No, what I'm saying is losing Kane, but not adding Skinner would've been bad. Maybe he was intending to add Skinner or someone around his level all along, who knows? But they absolutely needed to replace the goals lost from Kane.

I was fine with the ROR trade, this year might be shaky as far as overall points, but basically anyone could replace the 5v5.

No, what I'm saying is losing Kane, but not adding Skinner would've been bad. Maybe he was intending to add Skinner or someone around his level all along, who knows? But they absolutely needed to replace the goals lost from Kane.

I was fine with the ROR trade, this year might be shaky as far as overall points, but basically anyone could replace the 5v5.
- Wetbandit1

I suspected he'd add someone, didn't think it'd be skinner though so that was pretty cool.

I suspected he'd add someone, didn't think it'd be skinner though so that was pretty cool.
- Sabresfan-365

I kind of thought Sheary was it for now. And he's not a perennial scorer like Kane.

Josh Allen is the worst quarterback I've ever seen play, thinking he's better than Rosen is absolutely ludicrous. Ya'll need to stop making excuses for the kid and hope the Bills draft another QB. ...

Sabres looking better at least
- Pet.m.d.

Says the guy who said the Yotes would drop 7 on the Sabres last game, funny you weren't here running your mouth when we shut you out. Keep trolling on.

I suspected he'd add someone, didn't think it'd be skinner though so that was pretty cool.
- Sabresfan-365

I kinda wish Sheary would click with someone. There's only room for 1 LW on ECHLs line. I was psyched we got him. I was shocked we got Skinner.

Dude, you are using like a 5 game sample

Come on now.

If Sobokta went on a hot streak and scored more points than Eichel over 5 games and someone posted there point totals would that mean he’s better??
- sbroads24

Sobatka had 1 point at the time
Jack had like 6 or something

I called u out on this last year by comparing Karlsson’s numbers to other defensemen not in the same category
All u could say was the stats were “outliers”
It’s a bad stat

Should be used to compare guys like Skinner & Eichel
Or Larsson & Girgensons

U can’t compare guys who get 3rd line icetime to those who get 1st line minutes

Points don’t increase at the same rate

Suzy Kolber really just said the Pats offense is underrated
Huh?
- jdfitz77

That means that she believes they are better than people think.

Josh Allen is the worst quarterback I've ever seen play, thinking he's better than Rosen is absolutely ludicrous. Ya'll need to stop making excuses for the kid and hope the Bills draft another QB. ...

Sabres looking better at least
- Pet.m.d.

I bet he doesn’t even get a completion today...he’s that bad

Sobatka had 1 point at the time
Jack had like 6 or something

I called u out on this last year by comparing Karlsson’s numbers to other defensemen not in the same category
All u could say was the stats were “outliers”
It’s a bad stat

Should be used to compare guys like Skinner & Eichel
Or Larsson & Girgensons

U can’t compare guys who get 3rd line icetime to those who get 1st line minutes

Points don’t increase at the same rate
- jdfitz77

If you compare a d-man who played 71 games to a d-man who played 5, that's on you.

If you're comparing two d-men who played full seasons, the data is far more accurate.

You would never say a pitcher who had one great outing is better than the pitcher who put together one good season.

That means that she believes they are better than people think.
- TheHank

Sobatka had 1 point at the time
Jack had like 6 or something

I called u out on this last year by comparing Karlsson’s numbers to other defensemen not in the same category
All u could say was the stats were “outliers”
It’s a bad stat

Should be used to compare guys like Skinner & Eichel
Or Larsson & Girgensons

U can’t compare guys who get 3rd line icetime to those who get 1st line minutes

Points don’t increase at the same rate
- jdfitz77

It isn’t, you are wrong, 365 just proved your Karlsson point hilariously wrong and I’m done on the topic

Sobatka had 1 point at the time
Jack had like 6 or something

I called u out on this last year by comparing Karlsson’s numbers to other defensemen not in the same category
All u could say was the stats were “outliers”
It’s a bad stat

Should be used to compare guys like Skinner & Eichel
Or Larsson & Girgensons

U can’t compare guys who get 3rd line icetime to those who get 1st line minutes

Points don’t increase at the same rate
- jdfitz77

But you don't need a rate stat to compare two players who already have the same usage rate. Last season Girgs' ATOI was about 1 minute more than Armia's ATOI. I don't need pts/60 to compare their production. I can do that just by looking at their regular stats.

The whole point of something like pts/60 is to allow production comparisons--but not in a vacuum--of players who don't see the same or substantially similar ice time.

I am guessing you aren't a basketball fan. NBA (and NCAA to a lesser extent) player and team analysis would drive you bonkers.

Real quickly, bc it’s getting on gametime

Ryan Spooner has better pts/60 last year than Ovechkin & Benn & Panarin

Why?
They’re clearly not on the same level
Not even close

It’s bc Spooner played 15min a night,
And these other guys played 20min per

If Spooner was given and extra 5min of icetime per night,
his points would not go up accordingly

And it’s even more ridiculous when u try to say a 3rd/4th line guy can come up & fill in for a 1st/2nd line guy bc they have similar-ish pts/60

And yes Sbroads...
you pull that nonsense frequently

It doesn’t hold up
And that’s just 1 quick & obvious example

Real quickly, bc it’s getting on gametime

Ryan Spooner has better pts/60 last year than Ovechkin & Benn & Panarin

Why?
They’re clearly not on the same level
Not even close

It’s bc Spooner played 15min a night,
And these other guys played 20min per

If Spooner was given and extra 5min of icetime per night,
his points would not go up accordingly

And it’s even more ridiculous when u try to say a 3rd/4th line guy can come up & fill in for a 1st/2nd line guy bc they have similar-ish pts/60

And yes Sbroads...
you pull that nonsense frequently

It doesn’t hold up
And that’s just 1 quick & obvious example
- jdfitz77

Spooner 59 games played

Ovechkin 82 games played

also the difference was like, 0.06


2016/17

Spooner 78 games played, 1.22 p/60

Ovechkin 82 games played, 2.11 p/60