They lead the league in turnovers but they're on the field the second most in the league

They have the most INT's, the most fumbles recovered, they're middle of the pack in sacks, but they are on the field all the time, of course they are going to get scored on a lot
- Stripes77

Denzel Ward is the truth by the way.

Holy Crap

Not to bum everyone out...
but go look at the total “points for” among teams throughout the league

Then look at the Bills

Brutal
- jdfitz77

The Patriots have more 2nd quarter points than the Bills total points this year.

No I turned it off when it was 5-3 in the 3rd quarter.

I wanted Rosen, but two TD drives don’t take away how bad he’s been so far.

Also, Mayfield has looked awful, and is part of the reason they fired Hue/Haley
- sbroads24

Interesting article on The Athletic several days go ... outside of the QB' there were several factors that contributed to success of young QBs by year 3..
1) OC
2) OL
3)HC/Culture
4)WRs
5) The D

isn't it odd that Rosen, who's situation was rated the worst; and Mayfield (close to worst) are struggling.

And Allen's environment was in the middle, slightly better than average.

I would love to have Mayfield here, and I probably would take Rosen over Allen if the draft were held again.

It doesnt surprise me these guys are all having issues. Based on the above (for getting the QB himself) who's situation is likely to be better to give them a better chance to suceed?
Could it be Buffalo with $85m in cap and hopefully a focus on O in the draft too?

Holy Crap

Not to bum everyone out...
but go look at the total “points for” among teams throughout the league

Then look at the Bills

Brutal
- jdfitz77

Imagine if you take away the Vikings game and the early turnovers the defense caused leading to a blow out.

Interesting article on The Athletic several days go ... outside of the QB' there were several factors that contributed to success of young QBs by year 3..
1) OC
2) OL
3)HC/Culture
4)WRs
5) The D

isn't it odd that Rosen, who's situation was rated the worst; and Mayfield (close to worst) are struggling.

And Allen's environment was in the middle, slightly better than average.

I would love to have Mayfield here, and I probably would take Rosen over Allen if the draft were held again.

It doesnt surprise me these guys are all having issues. Based on the above (for getting the QB himself) who's situation is likely to be better to give them a better chance to suceed?
Could it be Buffalo with $85m in cap and hopefully a focus on O in the draft too?
- IonSabres

How is the bold true? We have the worst OL, the worst WR core, a rookie OC, and a 2nd year HC. And a good defense.

Interesting article on The Athletic several days go ... outside of the QB' there were several factors that contributed to success of young QBs by year 3..
1) OC
2) OL
3)HC/Culture
4)WRs
5) The D

isn't it odd that Rosen, who's situation was rated the worst; and Mayfield (close to worst) are struggling.

And Allen's environment was in the middle, slightly better than average.

I would love to have Mayfield here, and I probably would take Rosen over Allen if the draft were held again.

It doesnt surprise me these guys are all having issues. Based on the above (for getting the QB himself) who's situation is likely to be better to give them a better chance to suceed?
Could it be Buffalo with $85m in cap and hopefully a focus on O in the draft too?
- IonSabres

I will say no matter what people say the OL is the most important thing at any level. Even look at the UB bulls Lance put a lot into it and now they are one of the better teams in the MAC. Do they have good weapons... sure do but the OL is giving time.

With that, and the jab thrown at Lehner I wouldn't be surprised if he got his "pee pee slapped"
- Stripes77

I think Ray pretty much considers himself a lifelong Sabre. I have a feeling that Lehner comment was a retort to Lehners "it's nice to finally be in a real locker room" comment. Lehner was obviously part of the problem in our locker room. And when he wasn't given a contract because he sucked, was nuts and an addict, it improved our locker room. So fk him, good for Rob Ray. I pet Tpegs bought him extra hot dogs after the game for that one.

They lead the league in turnovers but they're on the field the second most in the league

They have the most INT's, the most fumbles recovered, they're middle of the pack in sacks, but they are on the field all the time, of course they are going to get scored on a lot
- Stripes77

Not sure where u get that from
29:15 offensive time of possession per game
That is 24th
But as little as adding 1:30 in possession would put them in the top10
That’s roughly 1 first down more per game

The defense isn’t out there all game long

Also,
Their defense is towards the bottom in the red zone

They should be better

The Patriots have more 2nd quarter points than the Bills total points this year.
- CoHo_to_B-Lo

Ugh

So my evaluation would completely ignore the toughness, and look instead at who is good and who is bad.

Because you can have tough guys who are bad, and "soft" guys who are good. And I would rather have "soft" guys who still find a way to be good.

And for what its worth, I'm sure you wouldn't label either Vanek or Reinhart as a tough guy, but I bet you would change your mind if you had to put up with any of the abuse they put up with in the crease every single time they go there. Just because they don't come out swinging the lumber doens't mean they aren't tough enough to endure the abuse.
- Der Kaiser

Not sure how you could evaluate a hockey player without considering (self) toughness. Big part of the game.

I'm trying to keep my opinions of sam out of the discussion.

I did have dahlin #1. He kinda exemplifies what I'm saying. Risto too. You dont have to drop the gloves every shift, but your opponents should know, you are willing too, if someone cheap shots you.

Not sure if you noticed ,but bogo gives the Sabres some backbone.

The sport is changing, but not that quickly

Interesting article on The Athletic several days go ... outside of the QB' there were several factors that contributed to success of young QBs by year 3..
1) OC
2) OL
3)HC/Culture
4)WRs
5) The D

isn't it odd that Rosen, who's situation was rated the worst; and Mayfield (close to worst) are struggling.

And Allen's environment was in the middle, slightly better than average.

I would love to have Mayfield here, and I probably would take Rosen over Allen if the draft were held again.

It doesnt surprise me these guys are all having issues. Based on the above (for getting the QB himself) who's situation is likely to be better to give them a better chance to suceed?
Could it be Buffalo with $85m in cap and hopefully a focus on O in the draft too?
- IonSabres

I read that
Good article

This board's favorite, Tom Wilson.
Plays on the top line' and had significant impact for Stanley Cup Champion.

He takes it way too far and now has a rather large target on his back.

But not many want to screw with him.
- IonSabres

Good post.
Wilson is a pretty big dude too

patriots 49
bills 3


coach gets fired tuesday

Not sure how you could evaluate a hockey player without considering (self) toughness. Big part of the game.

I'm trying to keep my opinions of sam out of the discussion.

I did have dahlin #1. He kinda exemplifies what I'm saying. Risto too. You dont have to drop the gloves every shift, but your opponents should know, you are willing too, if someone cheap shots you.

Not sure if you noticed ,but bogo gives the Sabres some backbone.

The sport is changing, but not that quickly
- Boss34

Taking a ton of punishment in front of the net (and still producing) doesn’t show toughness?

Fighting is way, way down
And well on its way to being all but gone
The sport has already changed a ton

patriots 49
bills 3


coach gets fired tuesday
- homiedclown

Score, yes. The firing, not a chance a HC gets fired with a QB that hasn't touched the field for 2 years besides last week.

Not sure where u get that from
29:15 offensive time of possession per game
That is 24th
But as little as adding 1:30 in possession would put them in the top10
That’s roughly 1 first down more per game

The defense isn’t out there all game long

Also,
Their defense is towards the bottom in the red zone

They should be better
- jdfitz77

NFL.com

Team stats

Only Arizona’s defense is on the field more.

patriots 49
bills 3


coach gets fired tuesday
- homiedclown

Have u heard anything about McD being on the hot seat?

NFL.com

Team stats

Only Arizona’s defense is on the field more.
- Stripes77

https://www.teamrankings....e-of-possession-net-of-ot

The stats you’re looking at are skewed bc it includes OT
33:38 defense
30:54 offense

In regulation,
they’re 26th in possession (29:15 offense)
But like i said before...
Just a few more offensive plays puts them in the top10 in possession

So the defense really isn’t out there all game like you’re saying

Seven different quarterbacks started for Jackson's Browns, and only Tyrod Taylor didn't have a losing record:

Taylor (1-1-1)

Baker Mayfield (1-4)

Robert Griffin III (1-4)

Kevin Hogan (0-1)

Josh McCown (0-3)

Cody Kessler (0-8)

DeShone Kizer (0-15)

Score, yes. The firing, not a chance a HC gets fired with a QB that hasn't touched the field for 2 years besides last week.
- CoHo_to_B-Lo

there is a real good chance come midnight, this team will have been outscored 108-8 in the last 121 minutes of football

let that sink in

there is a real good chance come midnight, this team will have been outscored 108-8 in the last 121 minutes of football

let that sink in
- homiedclown

If anything, Leslie Frazier will be the scapegoat. IMO

Seven different quarterbacks started for Jackson's Browns, and only Tyrod Taylor didn't have a losing record:

Taylor (1-1-1)

Baker Mayfield (1-4)

Robert Griffin III (1-4)

Kevin Hogan (0-1)

Josh McCown (0-3)

Cody Kessler (0-8)

DeShone Kizer (0-15)
- homiedclown

That stat line suits Tyrod perfectly

Taking a ton of punishment in front of the net (and still producing) doesn’t show toughness?

Fighting is way, way down
And well on its way to being all but gone
The sport has already changed a ton
- jdfitz77

Pommer is tough as poop. Especially for his size and age.
He is scoring from the dirty areas

patriots 49
bills 3


coach gets fired tuesday
- homiedclown

McUnemployed ??????

Score, yes. The firing, not a chance a HC gets fired with a QB that hasn't touched the field for 2 years besides last week.
- CoHo_to_B-Lo

Agreed. I don't see them firing a coach based on the performance of Derek Anderson