Is that on a major, or any penalty? I have never heard it is an option to put a guy in the box.....
- powerenforcer

When a player gets ejected and a team is going to be shorthanded for 5 minutes all that's necessary is for a player to come out of the box when the penalty expires. The coach can put him in the box at any stoppage of play. If play doesn't stop it's tough poop. It's not on the officials, totally on the coach.

Decision to replace the man in the box when he has to leave is a strategy decision by the coach. Replace him and you are down two men - Keith and the player sitting for him. Think the hawks were waiting to put a man in the box at a stoppage around the 4:30 mark of the penalty....then they are only down two men for about 30 seconds.

Think it was just a brain fart where the coaches forgot about this and then were forced to play the man short longer than necessary. Total bonehead play.

Refs are not there to tell the hawks their strategy was stupid. Would say the refs were doing exactly what they were supposed to. It was the hawks coaches that were incompetent.
- Spec41971

That "strategy" is nonsense. The Hawks had a number of forwards that wouldn't have seen the ice no matter how long they were on the PK. If anything could be considered a "strategy" it would be to put Kane in the box with the hope he jumps on the ice at the right time to get a pass to spring him on a rush.

Ridiculous they played a man down almost 2 minutes because of ineptitude.

Tankathon is now in play

http://www.tankathon.com/nhl
- gazza53

There's tough competition in The Great Suck Race.

That "strategy" is nonsense. The Hawks had a number of forwards that wouldn't have seen the ice no matter how long they were on the PK. If anything could be considered a "strategy" it would be to put Kane in the box with the hope he jumps on the ice at the right time to get a pass to spring him on a rush.

Ridiculous they played a man down almost 2 minutes because of ineptitude.
- EbonyRaptor

Spot on!

That "strategy" is nonsense.
- EbonyRaptor[/b[The Hawks had a number of forwards that wouldn't have seen the ice no matter how long they were on the PK. If anything could be considered a "strategy" it would be to put Kane in the box with the hope he jumps on the ice at the right time to get a pass to spring him on a rush.

Ridiculous they played a man down almost 2 minutes because of ineptitude.

I disagree. If the flames had taken a penalty during the hawks’ five minute penalty, play would have been 4 on 4. Q retains strategic use of all available players by not replacing Keith immediately.

I think what we agree on is that whatever they did, they did it poorly, extremely poorly.

Spot on!
- walleyeb1

It shows that Q has totally lost it. It was beyond time to remove him last year. We lost a summer where a new staff could have come in and implemented a new system. Q and Bowman are in pure survival mode and nothing will happen until Wirtz walks down to Stan's office and says get out. The Kunitz/Manning signings should have been nixed before they were done. Joke. Ward is at least serviceable with this crap-tastic system in front of him. Jack Hughes might be possible with this train wreck.

Today's stat.. 56 goals allowed. WORST in the NHL!!!

Very well said. Up and down and inconsistent play from your team often from shift to shift, period to period and game to game is on the coach. There are plenty of good moments or periods of time the team plays well, then it just falls apart.

This is why you pay a coach, to smooth out the game. Figure out what buttons to push. Clearly Q has mis labeled his buttons, as the input does not equal output.


For those whining about talent level, please. The hawks are not unlike many teams in the league. Those teams just play together more consistently for longer periods of time.

Someone asked earlier in thread about GMs and Coaches. Typically, and this now is not typically, a GM gets at least 1 coach fire and hire. Q has been here a decade. I am not against canning SB too, but I am just trying to be practical. Coaches go before GM's go.
- TrueGrit

Q’s biggest problem has always been his stubbornness. This stubborness, of course, manifests itself as bad decision-making. Can’t get out of his own way, can’t get out of his team’s way. This has been a problem for his entire time with the Hawks. Even in the years that Cups were won they were not won because of Q. During those years I still wished for Q not to micro-manage and for him to just let the players’ play.

Scotty Bowman has had tremendous influence on the Hawks make-up. His opinion became the Hawks’ opinion. He basically demanded that Denis Savard kneel and kiss his ring as a Hockey Coaching God. Savard, having dignity, refused. Savard didn’t see it coming and he was gone in an instant. Fired ironically by Dale Tallon, who also didn’t see it coming - and when Tallon was fired, who was hired? Scotty Bowman’s son, Stan Bowman, of course, based on nothing. Stan Bowman only got the job because of nepotism, as he had neither the smarts or experience of others within and outside the organization.

Q had accumulated lots of regular-season wins when he was hired. However, no Cups, no Final appearances - no play-off success at all. The Avalanche wanted him out, as the Blues had before, because of this. They were elite teams that ultimately under-achieved.

Q hit the motherlode with the Hawks. Young super-stars in Kane and Toews. Studs in Keith, Seabrook, Sharp, Hammer and others. This team was going to threaten no matter who was the Coach. Ultimately, the team won 3 Cups but should have won more. There were also soul crushing play-off exits - even First Round exits, when seeded first.

Q has been stubborn throughout. Question him as an Assistant Coach and you were fired. Q may not have attracted much criticism in Chicago but in Canada, which dissects hockey, he was criticized a lot. I remember a special comment by Doug MacLean of Sportsnet, saying something like “So Q’s big move is to play Keith and Seabrook together? Shouldn’t that have been happening all along.”

Savard when asked about his super-line of Toews flanked by Sharp and Kane said it was a “No-Brainer.” Added something like “They love playing together, have great chemistry and are highly productive.” Q, of course, refused to play them together. Then it became a refusal to play Kane and Toews together. The Keith/Seabrook tandem died years ago. In one play-offs the line of Shaw flanked by Kane and Saad was unstoppable - next year nothing. Surely, this special type of ego-tistical idiocy doesn’t exist today? Yeah it does. Q simply refuses to play DeBrincat with Kane. Of course the refusal to play Toews with Kane continues. How about this one? You take one of the greatest players in the world and you DON’T play him with Toews, Cat or Saad on the PP.

Q is surrounded by his buddies Ulf and Dineen. He apparently keeps his fingers in everything. The result? A PP that is so bad it is embarrassing to watch. Also a PK so passive and so bad it is surprising when a goal is not given up. Bad line combinations, bad D-Men combinations. The players just don’t seem to have the energy to push past the incompetence anymore. At least they don’t seem to right at this moment.

However, posters keep posting that Q is a Genius. Sorry - for all the above reasons and for killing a 7 minute penalty last night because Q couldn’t figure out to simply put a body in the Penalty Box he surely is not. A new voice has been needed for a long time.

There's tough competition in The Great Suck Race.
- I Am The Breadman

And many in DaNile

Q’s biggest problem has always been his stubbornness. This stubborness, of course, manifests itself as bad decision-making. Can’t get out of his own way, can’t get out of his team’s way. This has been a problem for his entire time with the Hawks. Even in the years that Cups were won they were not won because of Q. During those years I still wished for Q not to micro-manage and for him to just let the players’ play.

Scotty Bowman has had tremendous influence on the Hawks make-up. His opinion became the Hawks’ opinion. He basically demanded that Denis Savard kneel and kiss his ring as a Hockey Coaching God. Savard, having dignity, refused. Savard didn’t see it coming and he was gone in an instant. Fired ironically by Dale Tallon, who also didn’t see it coming - and when Tallon was fired, who was hired? Scotty Bowman’s son, Stan Bowman, of course, based on nothing. Stan Bowman only got the job because of nepotism, as he had neither the smarts or experience of others within and outside the organization.

Q had accumulated lots of regular-season wins when he was hired. However, no Cups, no Final appearances - no play-off success at all. The Avalanche wanted him out, as the Blues had before, because of this. They were elite teams that ultimately under-achieved.

Q hit the motherlode with the Hawks. Young super-stars in Kane and Toews. Studs in Keith, Seabrook, Sharp, Hammer and others. This team was going to threaten no matter who was the Coach. Ultimately, the team won 3 Cups but should have won more. There were also soul crushing play-off exits - even First Round exits, when seeded first.

Q has been stubborn throughout. Question him as an Assistant Coach and you were fired. Q may not have attracted much criticism in Chicago but in Canada, which dissects hockey, he was criticized a lot. I remember a special comment by Doug MacLean of Sportsnet, saying something like “So Q’s big move is to play Keith and Seabrook together? Shouldn’t that have been happening all along.”

Savard when asked about his super-line of Toews flanked by Sharp and Kane said it was a “No-Brainer.” Added something like “They love playing together, have great chemistry and are highly productive.” Q, of course, refused to play them together. Then it became a refusal to play Kane and Toews together. The Keith/Seabrook tandem died years ago. In one play-offs the line of Shaw flanked by Kane and Saad was unstoppable - next year nothing. Surely, this special type of ego-tistical idiocy doesn’t exist today? Yeah it does. Q simply refuses to play DeBrincat with Kane. Of course the refusal to play Toews with Kane continues. How about this one? You take one of the greatest players in the world and you DON’T play him with Toews, Cat or Saad on the PP.

Q is surrounded by his buddies Ulf and Dineen. He apparently keeps his fingers in everything. The result? A PP that is so bad it is embarrassing to watch. Also a PK so passive and so bad it is surprising when a goal is not given up. Bad line combinations, bad D-Men combinations. The players just don’t seem to have the energy to push past the incompetence anymore. At least they don’t seem to right at this moment.

However, posters keep posting that Q is a Genius. Sorry - for all the above reasons and for killing a 7 minute penalty last night because Q couldn’t figure out to simply put a body in the Penalty Box he surely is not. A new voice has been needed for a long time.
- Z3Hawk

Wow don't need to add anything to that .Could not even if I tried .Please read Rocky .!!

Q’s biggest problem has always been his stubbornness. This stubborness, of course, manifests itself as bad decision-making. Can’t get out of his own way, can’t get out of his team’s way. This has been a problem for his entire time with the Hawks. Even in the years that Cups were won they were not won because of Q. During those years I still wished for Q not to micro-manage and for him to just let the players’ play.

Scotty Bowman has had tremendous influence on the Hawks make-up. His opinion became the Hawks’ opinion. He basically demanded that Denis Savard kneel and kiss his ring as a Hockey Coaching God. Savard, having dignity, refused. Savard didn’t see it coming and he was gone in an instant. Fired ironically by Dale Tallon, who also didn’t see it coming - and when Tallon was fired, who was hired? Scotty Bowman’s son, Stan Bowman, of course, based on nothing. Stan Bowman only got the job because of nepotism, as he had neither the smarts or experience of others within and outside the organization.

Q had accumulated lots of regular-season wins when he was hired. However, no Cups, no Final appearances - no play-off success at all. The Avalanche wanted him out, as the Blues had before, because of this. They were elite teams that ultimately under-achieved.


Q hit the motherlode with the Hawks. Young super-stars in Kane and Toews. Studs in Keith, Seabrook, Sharp, Hammer and others. This team was going to threaten no matter who was the Coach. Ultimately, the team won 3 Cups but should have won more. There were also soul crushing play-off exits - even First Round exits, when seeded first.

Q has been stubborn throughout. Question him as an Assistant Coach and you were fired. Q may not have attracted much criticism in Chicago but in Canada, which dissects hockey, he was criticized a lot. I remember a special comment by Doug MacLean of Sportsnet, saying something like “So Q’s big move is to play Keith and Seabrook together? Shouldn’t that have been happening all along.”

Savard when asked about his super-line of Toews flanked by Sharp and Kane said it was a “No-Brainer.” Added something like “They love playing together, have great chemistry and are highly productive.” Q, of course, refused to play them together. Then it became a refusal to play Kane and Toews together. The Keith/Seabrook tandem died years ago. In one play-offs the line of Shaw flanked by Kane and Saad was unstoppable - next year nothing. Surely, this special type of ego-tistical idiocy doesn’t exist today? Yeah it does. Q simply refuses to play DeBrincat with Kane. Of course the refusal to play Toews with Kane continues. How about this one? You take one of the greatest players in the world and you DON’T play him with Toews, Cat or Saad on the PP.

Q is surrounded by his buddies Ulf and Dineen. He apparently keeps his fingers in everything. The result? A PP that is so bad it is embarrassing to watch. Also a PK so passive and so bad it is surprising when a goal is not given up. Bad line combinations, bad D-Men combinations. The players just don’t seem to have the energy to push past the incompetence anymore. At least they don’t seem to right at this moment.

However, posters keep posting that Q is a Genius. Sorry - for all the above reasons and for killing a 7 minute penalty last night because Q couldn’t figure out to simply put a body in the Penalty Box he surely is not. A new voice has been needed for a long time.
- Z3Hawk

Probably catch a lot of flack for this, but anyone who spit on other players likes savard used to do has NO dignity. Think that behavior alone disqualified him from any association with the hawks. What a freaking despicable person!

Two words Jack Hughes
- HamiltonHawk

One word: Smurf

I disagree. If the flames had taken a penalty during the hawks’ five minute penalty, play would have been 4 on 4. Q retains strategic use of all available players by not replacing Keith immediately.

I think what we agree on is that whatever they did, they did it poorly, extremely poorly.
- Spec41971

OK - then put Martinsen in the box. He wouldn't be used on the PK. There's no rational "strategy" to not have a man in the box.

Z3HAWK post is the best post to hit this board in years. McD call a presser this week and make the necessary changes.

Z3HAWK post is the best post to hit this board in years. McD call a presser this week and make the necessary changes.
- TJYTJY

One Goal..... to stop this thing before it hits the brick wall.

Q’s biggest problem has always been his stubbornness. This stubborness, of course, manifests itself as bad decision-making. Can’t get out of his own way, can’t get out of his team’s way. This has been a problem for his entire time with the Hawks. Even in the years that Cups were won they were not won because of Q. During those years I still wished for Q not to micro-manage and for him to just let the players’ play.

Scotty Bowman has had tremendous influence on the Hawks make-up. His opinion became the Hawks’ opinion. He basically demanded that Denis Savard kneel and kiss his ring as a Hockey Coaching God. Savard, having dignity, refused. Savard didn’t see it coming and he was gone in an instant. Fired ironically by Dale Tallon, who also didn’t see it coming - and when Tallon was fired, who was hired? Scotty Bowman’s son, Stan Bowman, of course, based on nothing. Stan Bowman only got the job because of nepotism, as he had neither the smarts or experience of others within and outside the organization.

Q had accumulated lots of regular-season wins when he was hired. However, no Cups, no Final appearances - no play-off success at all. The Avalanche wanted him out, as the Blues had before, because of this. They were elite teams that ultimately under-achieved.

Q hit the motherlode with the Hawks. Young super-stars in Kane and Toews. Studs in Keith, Seabrook, Sharp, Hammer and others. This team was going to threaten no matter who was the Coach. Ultimately, the team won 3 Cups but should have won more. There were also soul crushing play-off exits - even First Round exits, when seeded first.

Q has been stubborn throughout. Question him as an Assistant Coach and you were fired. Q may not have attracted much criticism in Chicago but in Canada, which dissects hockey, he was criticized a lot. I remember a special comment by Doug MacLean of Sportsnet, saying something like “So Q’s big move is to play Keith and Seabrook together? Shouldn’t that have been happening all along.”

Savard when asked about his super-line of Toews flanked by Sharp and Kane said it was a “No-Brainer.” Added something like “They love playing together, have great chemistry and are highly productive.” Q, of course, refused to play them together. Then it became a refusal to play Kane and Toews together. The Keith/Seabrook tandem died years ago. In one play-offs the line of Shaw flanked by Kane and Saad was unstoppable - next year nothing. Surely, this special type of ego-tistical idiocy doesn’t exist today? Yeah it does. Q simply refuses to play DeBrincat with Kane. Of course the refusal to play Toews with Kane continues. How about this one? You take one of the greatest players in the world and you DON’T play him with Toews, Cat or Saad on the PP.

Q is surrounded by his buddies Ulf and Dineen. He apparently keeps his fingers in everything. The result? A PP that is so bad it is embarrassing to watch. Also a PK so passive and so bad it is surprising when a goal is not given up. Bad line combinations, bad D-Men combinations. The players just don’t seem to have the energy to push past the incompetence anymore. At least they don’t seem to right at this moment.

However, posters keep posting that Q is a Genius. Sorry - for all the above reasons and for killing a 7 minute penalty last night because Q couldn’t figure out to simply put a body in the Penalty Box he surely is not. A new voice has been needed for a long time.
- Z3Hawk

Who here has posted that Q is a genius? Even those of us who think he played an important part in winning three Cups and gaining two other Final Fours recognize his faults and question his ability to handle this flawed team in this changed league.

Since the Hawks began making the playoffs in 2009, there have been 6 (I think) coaches on 5 franchises who have won Cups in those 10 years. I guess there have been 100+ coaches in the league. If it were as easy as throwing talented players on the ice and letting them fend for themselves....

Tallon the great GM - perhaps he was the one who fell into a a pile of horsecrap and landed on a pony - he wound up with Toews at #3 overall and Kane at #1 - Hjalmarsson and Kruger were his other two picks to contribute to the Cups. He got Campbell because he was able to throw money at him - more money than other teams were willing to give up. Parrish, Beach, Aliu, Olson as other high picks as GM....

And what has he accomplished so far in Sunrise?

Lots of questions about whether or not Q and Stan can get the job done going forward - but please - let’s stop refusing to recognizing their past contributions.

Profile on Schmaltz and his biggest challenge, dating back to college:

https://theathletic.com/6...-needs-to-give-it-a-shot/

Finally clicked for me while reading it why they shouldn't be putting Schmaltz with Kane when I saw this paragraph:

“When you go through pre-scouts as coaches, you always look to see what the other offensive players bring to the table,” Berry [UND coach] said. “If you’re a pass-first player, it’s pretty easy to pre-scout and defend. If you know a guy is not a threat to be a shooter, you always shade toward the guy who he’s going to give the puck to. But if you have that in your bag, where you’re a threat to shoot, it throws the other team off-balance on how to defend.”

Schmaltz needs to find his game away from someone to whom he will too often and instinctually defer. . .Kane needs someone who will shoot the puck because when he passes it to you, that usually means you have a makable shot.

Z3HAWK post is the best post to hit this board in years. McD call a presser this week and make the necessary changes.
- TJYTJY

Well well, I’m gonna push back on this just a little bit.

“Q had accumulated lots of regular-season wins when he was hired. However, no Cups, no Final appearances - no play-off success at all. The Avalanche wanted him out, as the Blues had before, because of this. They were elite teams that ultimately under-achieved.”

I wouldn’t say no playoff success at all, and I admittedly don’t really no all that much about those teams during those years, but somehow how feel that considering them as elite may be a stretch.

I’m also not going to complain that we should have won more cups considering how incredibly difficult it is to win even one!

This was a rough road trip for this team.

Whether this team just is what it is or there's something that can be salvaged this season... management is not going to wait around to see.

Something is going to change here soon.

This was a rough road trip for this team.

Whether this team just is what it is or there's something that can be salvaged this season... management is not going to wait around to see.

Something is going to change here soon.
- Justin Lowe

Inside knowledge Justin?

This was a rough road trip for this team.

Whether this team just is what it is or there's something that can be salvaged this season... management is not going to wait around to see.

Something is going to change here soon.
- Justin Lowe

FWIW Roster news:

The IceHogs have recalled defensemen Neil Manning and Josh McArdle from the @IndyFuel.

Info: http://www.icehogs.com/news/?article_id=6393

This was a rough road trip for this team.

Whether this team just is what it is or there's something that can be salvaged this season... management is not going to wait around to see.

Something is going to change here soon.
- Justin Lowe

It sucks that in this roadtrip they gave up probably 2 winnable games where they were leading halfway through the game. Maybe it is just a bad sign when Toews/Saad both score...

Seriously though, last night a handful of Hawks were good but the rest were MIA. Crawford, Toews, Debrincat, Saad, Seabrook were playing pretty well. The second line and third line were pretty much invisible, managing just one shot each. The 4th line pretty much did their job.

Tankathon is now in play

http://www.tankathon.com/nhl
- gazza53

Thanks
Bookmarked the site

It sucks that in this roadtrip they gave up probably 2 winnable games where they were leading halfway through the game. Maybe it is just a bad sign when Toews/Saad both score...

Seriously though, last night a handful of Hawks were good but the rest were MIA. Crawford, Toews, Debrincat, Saad, Seabrook were playing pretty well. The second line and third line were pretty much invisible, managing just one shot each. The 4th line pretty much did their job.
- breadbag

They are either killed by the starts and just can't find their footing, or they can't seal the game up after 40 mins of good play. Then it's collapse after collapse until the game we dominated just fell completely out of reach. Mostly the d, but the forwards have started adding to costly turnovers.

This was a rough road trip for this team.

Whether this team just is what it is or there's something that can be salvaged this season... management is not going to wait around to see.

Something is going to change here soon.
- Justin Lowe

I really really hope so...we'll how stupid can management be to think that by basically putting the same product on the ice as last year and hoping they would generate a different result? Who in their right mind taught that by signing guys like Kunitzs and Manning that there would be any impact? Let's not forget that the Hawks were a last placed team with some under performing veterans, a defence that was porous a PP that is atrocious, and a coaching staff who seems to be stagnant.

Change is needed on many levels IMO....it was a good run, time to turn the page.

FWIW Roster news:

The IceHogs have recalled defensemen Neil Manning and Josh McArdle from the @IndyFuel.

Info: http://www.icehogs.com/news/?article_id=6393
- walleyeb1

Wow I didn’t realize that the IceHogs were down to five healthy Dmen.