Justin, Great article!

All, what are our top 3 choices for GM mid-season? No red font entries please...

If I had to choose between Stan and Q on who to blame for the Hawks decline, the choice would be easy - Stan. Expecting Q to deliver championship results without a championship lineup is unrealistic. Further, suggesting that if Q would adapt his coaching style he could transform this sows ear of a team into a silk purse is wishful thinking to put it as nicely as possible.

I don't blame Stan for "everything" - sometimes circumstances just don't go your way. And, GM's make mistakes - all GM's make mistakes. But GM's must also own those mistakes, circumstantial excuses only go so far. Mistakes made by the GM have a cumulative effect and this team finds itself somewhat crippled by the weight of Stan's moves. Father time has played a part too, of course, but Stan's miscues can't be ignored or excused away.

I care less about this season than I care about the direction of the team over the next few years. I think there's still a chance to get another legitimate shot at a Cup with Toews and Kane. Using the "grass always looks greener" wisdom, I'm not sure a new GM can do something that Stan can't, but at this point I think you roll the dice and gamble on new blood if for no better reason a new GM wouldn't feel allegiance to any of the pieces that may need to be sacrificed to the "hockey gods".

Good post.

It's just all so... disappointing.

I think we all knew from the haul of Ward, Manning and Kunitz that we would be a bubble team at best but the comebacks against the Sens, Blues and Leafs all gave us a glimpse of hope especially how the Cat, Toews and Kane played. Joki and Gus seemed like we might have at least 4 decent D in those first few games.

It's an 82-game season but the Hawks on the road trip and the Hawks that gave up 30 plus shots to TB look and feel like the Hawks of the 2017-2018 season.

Stans responsible for the salaries , personnel correct? If every one is being brutally honest looking at the players and salaries the blame squarely rests at Stans feet, he gave out ridiculous contracts Bickell 4 million to a guy whom never scored 20 plus goals a season just because he had a great playoff run, then kept us in cap hell and traded teveo, Leddy traded, Shaw traded . The list of players we traded and assets returned speak volume.


Handzus was a nice rental but he was not a legitimate number 2 center and Stan living in a bubble of the past couldn't see reality.



Stan fired coach Q assistants and brought in this garbage Ulf, dinean whom run the pk and power play both are brutally horrible. He made the choice after getting smoke 4 and out then failing to make the playoffs to keep coach Q and his chance to really improve this team was the signings of Kunitz, ward, manning and Davidson? Anisomov let's be honest he isn't a top 6 guy. Seabrook at his age in his career should have never been given that contract knowing he wouldn't be even half effective to earn that contract and term.


Trading panarin for saad was dumb and even more super star players like that are a diamond in a ruff whom you find a way to keep and pay.



I could go on but Stan should be the first to go then at the end of the season you make a coaching change .
- Taylorst1

You are right. How dare Bicks to allow MS to develop!

For me the positive is some of what you mentioned, like Jokiharju, DeBrincat and Kahun as well as the Core rebounding.

With some of the recent drafts and restocking of the prospect pool, I don’t think things are as big of a mess as some may think...but are Stan and Q the ones to pull them out of the funk is a different story, and I’m not so sure anymore.
- HawkintheD

The thing I think is the big mess is the abhorrent pro scouting and their inability to accurately evaluate the talent on their team (like, overvalue big time), assess what they need to add, and get the player with the right skill set to do that.

Their amateur scouting and young guys aren't the problem. Bringing in the right veterans has been an issue.

The only two after Hossa that have played any kind of significant part are Brad Richards and Rozy as FA signings. And only two trades for pro players (not including Leddy for Barker cause Leddy wasn't a pro yet) was the Vermette deal and Oduya which took a year to work itself out. That is kind of bad. Not Tyler Hall for Adam Larsson bad but still pretty bad.

Justin, Great article!

All, what are our top 3 choices for GM mid-season? No red font entries please...
- riozzo

Tallon or Bob Pulford for sure.

No red font? MacIver maybe. Don’t know, who is considered an up and comer in another organization who could be released from their contract? I think that’s the question too.

Do you want someone who has been a GM or someone considered an up and comer with some pedigree?

If I had to choose between Stan and Q on who to blame for the Hawks decline, the choice would be easy - Stan. Expecting Q to deliver championship results without a championship lineup is unrealistic. Further, suggesting that if Q would adapt his coaching style he could transform this sows ear of a team into a silk purse is wishful thinking to put it as nicely as possible.

I don't blame Stan for "everything" - sometimes circumstances just don't go your way. And, GM's make mistakes - all GM's make mistakes. But GM's must also own those mistakes, circumstantial excuses only go so far. Mistakes made by the GM have a cumulative effect and this team finds itself somewhat crippled by the weight of Stan's moves. Father time has played a part too, of course, but Stan's miscues can't be ignored or excused away.

I care less about this season than I care about the direction of the team over the next few years. I think there's still a chance to get another legitimate shot at a Cup with Toews and Kane. Using the "grass always looks greener" wisdom, I'm not sure a new GM can do something that Stan can't, but at this point I think you roll the dice and gamble on new blood if for no better reason a new GM wouldn't feel allegiance to any of the pieces that may need to be sacrificed to the "hockey gods".
- EbonyRaptor

Some coaching adjustments would help but they wouldn't get them a Cup unless Keith finds the fountain of youth, Crow is lights out and Patrick Kane scores 45 points in the playoffs (assuming they get there)

Its a bad roster with some very bad pro scouting and player evaluations both internally and regarding guys they acquire.

The thing I think is the big mess is the abhorrent pro scouting and their inability to accurately evaluate the talent on their team (like, overvalue big time), assess what they need to add, and get the player with the right skill set to do that.

Their amateur scouting and young guys aren't the problem. Bringing in the right veterans has been an issue.

The only two after Hossa that have played any kind of significant part are Brad Richards and Rozy as FA signings. And only two trades for pro players (not including Leddy for Barker cause Leddy wasn't a pro yet) was the Vermette deal and Oduya which took a year to work itself out. That is kind of bad. Not Tyler Hall for Adam Larsson bad but still pretty bad.
- fattybeef

I agree with the first sentence.

In your last paragraph, I don’t necessarily agree as they didn’t have to make a lot of trades and I think the assessment was better from pro scouting for what they had and what was needed in 2015 and prviously...definitely more could have been done or a better job this past offseason.

Justin, Great article!

All, what are our top 3 choices for GM mid-season? No red font entries please...
- riozzo

Norm Maciver seems the most logical choice for GM.

Already here , knows what we have, rumored to be at odds with StanBo on personnel decisions and some have said has a better idea on what is needed.

For ole time sakes....Deck chairs on the Titanic.
- Beaver-Warrior

Are you sure?

Looks more like the Andrea Doria to me....

Blow it up

Nice points about Bowman. I have been saying the same thing concerning his spending - it adds up. Rutta, Gus, Ward, Kunitz, Davidson, Manning - lots of money tied to just these 6 players. Where is the value? Where is the impact? These players have not made the team better - they have made it worse. All of them are easily replaceable by other players who arguably would perform at a higher level.

Bowman could have used this money,or just some of it, to get 1, 2 or 3 truly impactful players. Bowman could have made trades taking on salary. Instead Bowman spent a lot of money on signings that made no sense at all, completely wasting the available money.
- Z3Hawk

Rutta -way overpaid. Good thing it is only for one year.
Gus -disagree here. For what he contributes on a low paying deal, we are getting value here.
Ward -overpaid for a backup. Would have been better value at $2M and without the movement clause. Again good that it is only for one year.
Kunitz -wasted $1M here with the NMC and 35+ contract
Davidson -disagree here. Can be waived and sent to Rockford with no cap hit and would help the farm team as Franson did last year.
Manning -What was Bowman thinking when he gave him that kind of money? He is getting twice as much as he should and we have to endure another year on that one.

Firing Q is not the answer.
- Hank3Henshaw

1. Fire Bowman
2. Fire Q
3. Fire McD
4. Trade Toews
5. Trade Saad
6. Trade Keith
7. Trade Seabrook
8. Trade Crawford
9. Plan Parade

The thing I think is the big mess is the abhorrent pro scouting and their inability to accurately evaluate the talent on their team (like, overvalue big time), assess what they need to add, and get the player with the right skill set to do that.

Their amateur scouting and young guys aren't the problem. Bringing in the right veterans has been an issue.

The only two after Hossa that have played any kind of significant part are Brad Richards and Rozy as FA signings. And only two trades for pro players (not including Leddy for Barker cause Leddy wasn't a pro yet) was the Vermette deal and Oduya which took a year to work itself out. That is kind of bad. Not Tyler Hall for Adam Larsson bad but still pretty bad.
- fattybeef

Their biggest diamond in the rough scouting win was traded to Columbus! THe NHL media applauded the front office for the homework they did on getting Panarin to CHicago and then they traded him lmao!

Are you sure?

Looks more like the Andrea Doria to me....
- StLBravesFan

Collide with an ice berg or a freighter. Either way, the end result is the same. Never making New York.

Where did I say Stan shouldn't join Q when they start rearranging the deck chairs?

The team was in Cap Hell in part because they were trying to win Cups...which they did two more times while Stan was GM with depth he provided. You can't have it both ways.

If we're being honest, yes, Stan paid for winning...two more Cups, but according to you, all he did was add Handzus, to win that first Cup, not to mention some of the players he acquired in helping win the '15 Cup (Richards, Vermette, Desjardins).

If anyone can't see the forest for the trees, it's clearly you. Who gives a poop whether Zus was a rental or not? Did Stan hold onto him a year too long? Sure. But he got him for a 4th, and he was instrumental whether you choose to acknowledge it or not in winning a Cup.

I was merely addressing your point that would have you believe he had a hand in nothing that contributed to winning the '13 Cup, which as it turns out is pure fiction and revisionist history.
- HawkintheD

Stan is responsible for the salaries and the personnel period . He gets credit for the 2 other cups but that's as far or as much he deserves. After winning the first cup this team was positioned personnel wise in a better chance to win.


Everyone Stan traded for has not worked out and he never made that big splash to get a top 6 guy for years this team has needed a guaranteed top 6 center , whom did Stan go out and try and bring in? Brad Richards was a short term solution that should have been corrected years ago.

He gave out ridiculous contracts with lots of money and term as well as NMC NTC that is a huge problem for any team looking to put the best possible players on the ice if your stuck with bad contracts.


Rockford was depleted of blue chip talent and sure we won 2 more cups but Stan was irresponsible in doing so, especially if your going to given out contracts to Seabrook, toews and Kane and not have the room to improve this team with a core that is turning or over 30 yrs old? That's the definition of incompetence.

The front office MC d and Stan both should be fired neither one of them had that brains to think things through and have a more realistic approach.

Stan offers Bickell 4 million just because of 1 solid playoff run yet years of avg play , but he has a super star in PANARIN whom scores 30 goals and avg 80 points a year? So we trade a guy like that away because Stan was just to cheap or his past incompetent moves and decisions hurt this team from keeping a star player.


Coach Q should have been fired 2 years ago when they got smoked 4 and out.

The kids in Rockford are not ready and quite frankly none are anything more than bottom 6 players.


Nylander id love to see that kid in a hawks jersey with schmaltz packing he won't shoot, makes bad decisions and is weak on checking .he isnt worth 6 or 7 million.



Tevo should have never been traded period. Stan mortgaged the future with Bickell and needed to find another way out of his mess.

1. Fire Bowman
2. Fire Q
3. Fire McD
4. Trade Toews
5. Trade Saad
6. Trade Keith
7. Trade Seabrook
8. Trade Crawford
9. Plan Parade
- DarthKane

I don't see trade for Frodo on your list. Major fail in my book.

Their biggest diamond in the rough scouting win was traded to Columbus! THe NHL media applauded the front office for the homework they did on getting Panarin to CHicago and then they traded him lmao!
- nickmo2699

And all but one guy who I disagree with on a lot of stuff (Savoy...kudos), applauded the move at the time.

If Saad keeps playing the way he has, the move is ok. For all the complaining about who got paid and how much, what depth are you able to trot out there if you pay another guy $9M?

Collide with an ice berg or a freighter. Either way, the end result is the same. Never making New York.
- Beaver-Warrior

Yeah - but they only made a blockbuster movie about one.

Unfair, I say....

I don't see trade for Frodo on your list. Major fail in my book.
- Beaver-Warrior

What about Rusty? Need him too!!!

Stan is responsible for the salaries and the personnel period . He gets credit for the 2 other cups but that's as far or as much he deserves. After winning the first cup this team was positioned personnel wise in a better chance to win.


Everyone Stan traded for has not worked out and he never made that big splash to get a top 6 guy for years this team has needed a guaranteed top 6 center , whom did Stan go out and try and bring in? Brad Richards was a short term solution that should have been corrected years ago.

He gave out ridiculous contracts with lots of money and term as well as NMC NTC that is a huge problem for any team looking to put the best possible players on the ice if your stuck with bad contracts.


Rockford was depleted of blue chip talent and sure we won 2 more cups but Stan was irresponsible in doing so, especially if your going to given out contracts to Seabrook, toews and Kane and not have the room to improve this team with a core that is turning or over 30 yrs old? That's the definition of incompetence.

The front office MC d and Stan both should be fired neither one of them had that brains to think things through and have a more realistic approach.

Stan offers Bickell 4 million just because of 1 solid playoff run yet years of avg play , but he has a super star in PANARIN whom scores 30 goals and avg 80 points a year? So we trade a guy like that away because Stan was just to cheap or his past incompetent moves and decisions hurt this team from keeping a star player.


Coach Q should have been fired 2 years ago when they got smoked 4 and out.

The kids in Rockford are not ready and quite frankly none are anything more than bottom 6 players.


Nylander id love to see that kid in a hawks jersey with schmaltz packing he won't shoot, makes bad decisions and is weak on checking .he isnt worth 6 or 7 million.



Tevo should have never been traded period. Stan mortgaged the future with Bickell and needed to find another way out of his mess.
- Taylorst1

How can you be irresponsible in winning two Stanley Cups?

Would it have been more responsible to NOT WIN the two Cups but perhaps have a better team now?

This may be the most ridiculous comment ever made on the board.

Yeah - but they only made a blockbuster movie about one.

Unfair, I say....
- StLBravesFan

The Andrea Doria got a mention, actually a whole Seinfeld episode. I know your not a Seinfeld guy but way cooler in my book than a James Cameron movie with Leo in it.

if they continue this losing over the next 4-5 games...they will be like a thanksgiving turkey: DONE

1. Fire Bowman
2. Fire Q
3. Fire McD
4. Trade Toews
5. Trade Saad
6. Trade Keith
7. Trade Seabrook
8. Trade Crawford
9. Plan Parade
- DarthKane

bring up the hogs...

How can you be irresponsible in winning two Stanley Cups?

Would it have been more responsible to NOT WIN the two Cups but perhaps have a better team now?

This may be the most ridiculous comment ever made on the board.
- StLBravesFan

Thank you, was getting ready to address that but you saved me some keystrokes. I stopped reading after that. As I mentioned there is an inability to discern the forest for the trees there.