Comparing the Coach to the GM is comparing apples and oranges.

The Hawks are taking standard action. First, thank you Q for being part of the best period of Blackhawk Hockey ever. You will forever be a legend in the city and can open up your own restaurant now.

How many of you work in management? When you take the job, do you take it by making disclaimers, or do you take it with the determination to use all available resources to meet company objectives? In the real world managers accept the fact they are not given a loaded deck to win. If that were the case, anyone could manage.

For whatever reason, it is clear that Q's message has fallen on deaf ears. There are plenty of positives, just inconsistencies. That falls on the coach and why he is gone.

Whining about the resources Bowman has given Q is absurd. For 5 years he had the best team from 1 to 23 in the NHL. Without the best talent, Q has not shown the ability to make chicken salad out of chicken .... So fans have a pity party for poor Q, because he does not have 15 olympic players on his team? And it is not the results, it is how they have looked. Fans can handle losing if the team lays it all out there and leaves it on the ice....that has not been the case the last few years.

For those pining for the great rebuild show their arrogance and entitlement. This team is not that bad. Sure they are battling some injuries on blue line etc... but they are similar to most teams in the NHL. I for one am looking forward to them to start playing with some heart and determination for 60 minutes and not like a bunch of entitled cats.
- TrueGrit

Couldn't agree more. I think that Q should have been shown the door after the first round exit to Nashville. He had a full season after that to make adjustments, and find ways to make this team raise their compete level, but it never happened. It was a great ride, but it's over and I'm happy to see a guy who took his AHL team to the Calder cup final in his first season get a chance to work with the young players on this team. The core players have already looked pretty good this year.

Thanks Larmer - you should have played your whole career as a Hawk.
- Z3Hawk

(frank)ing right

Comparing the Coach to the GM is comparing apples and oranges.

The Hawks are taking standard action. First, thank you Q for being part of the best period of Blackhawk Hockey ever. You will forever be a legend in the city and can open up your own restaurant now.

How many of you work in management? When you take the job, do you take it by making disclaimers, or do you take it with the determination to use all available resources to meet company objectives? In the real world managers accept the fact they are not given a loaded deck to win. If that were the case, anyone could manage.

For whatever reason, it is clear that Q's message has fallen on deaf ears. There are plenty of positives, just inconsistencies. That falls on the coach and why he is gone.

Whining about the resources Bowman has given Q is absurd. For 5 years he had the best team from 1 to 23 in the NHL. Without the best talent, Q has not shown the ability to make chicken salad out of chicken .... So fans have a pity party for poor Q, because he does not have 15 olympic players on his team? And it is not the results, it is how they have looked. Fans can handle losing if the team lays it all out there and leaves it on the ice....that has not been the case the last few years.

For those pining for the great rebuild show their arrogance and entitlement. This team is not that bad. Sure they are battling some injuries on blue line etc... but they are similar to most teams in the NHL. I for one am looking forward to them to start playing with some heart and determination for 60 minutes and not like a bunch of entitled cats.
- TrueGrit

Great post.

Yeah...I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there. It is true, all the Core pieces were collected when Dale was GM and Stan was an Asst. GM.

Stan did re-build the depth around that Core. But I would ask, and what often seems to get lost in this place, in a Salary Cap world, when you've got 7 Core pieces (you forgot Hammer), can you actually add anymore to that?

It's a hard cap. I'm not sure you can add anymore all stars. Also, for all the people who characterize Stan as timid, afraid of his own shadow, etc., when you have those 7 guys, what bold moves are you supposed to make? I think most of us would thank are lucky stars that Stan took over and didn't Chiarelli things up, resisting the urge to trade, Kane, Keith, Crow, etc. after 2 first round exits just to put his stamp on this thing...which according to most is bad.
- HawkintheD

What NHL level defenseman did Stan draft and develop in all his ten plus years as GM? Guess what. None until Joki made the roster this year. Of course, he drafted Johns if you want to count him, but he gave him away for free when he botched the Sharp trade.

The point is he did great surrounding a great core until 2015. Since then, maybe since the Danault trade, it has been a continual series of bad decisions that have torn down the team to the state it is in now.

It is one thing to not add a core piece while drafting late, but it is another thing to have nothing but AHL fodder to fill out the NHL roster around the core. Gustafsson? Come on. He is the only NHL GM that would have even offered him a contract last year. If it wasn't for Stan he would be in Sweden right now.

He sunk the depth on this team in a terrible way. Again, he didn't bring Panarin into the organization, Barry Smith did. But he did jettison a top 1o point producer in all the NHL for a guy who has played his way to the 4th line three years running.

So do you really think Stan was going out of his way to NOT add any all star caliber talent because the Hawks were up against the cap? Really?

I've been following the Hawks since '84. I am well versed in bad coaches (I still remember when Amonte was overheard yelling at Graham "let me create!"). Q has been amazing here, but I think it was pretty clear, that he wasn't getting it done recently.

The 1st round exits started to show the cracks.
Missing the playoffs last year (by a longshot) showed some significant issues.
Their play this year is a continuation of the problems that we saw.

How long do you keep doing the same thing and hoping for the best.

I do not absolve Stan of anything here. He has made some blunders, but they just aren't going to drop the two key decision makers for the team on the same day. I expect that if this year plays out similarly as last year, Stan will be let go as well.
- Chunk

I've been following the Hawks long before 84.
the GM provides you with a terrible roster so you fire the coach. Makes no sense.

I see a lot of parallels with Detroit as hard as we had hoped not to follow in their footsteps. We saw the Hawks build a great, young, deep, talented roster that produced multiple Cups, like Detroit. Check. We saw that once the depth of the team was lost, they became a bubble playoff team riding the core and able to make the playoffs but not able to have success or make a deep run (St Louis series a few years ago, Nashville series). Check.

Then as the core performance slipped, the league appears to have passed them by as the depth around the core is still substandard and the core themselves have had time and age wear away their top abilities. (last couple years. Check).

It was the rich young talent we had that the team rose to such levels of success. And it will be the young talent we develop that will pull this team back up out of the mire. The question is how long it will take that to happen. It seems that after ten years of Stan we finally have a dman pipeline. But nothing in goal, nothing at center, and nothing on wing.

Unless we are able to add draft capital somehow without losing key personnel, it is going to be ugly for awhile until it starts to get better. (Again, see Detroit)

some one asked what would success look like under cotillion: playing 60 minutes every game whether they win 1 - 0 pr lose 8-0. this team simply has not showed up to play every game (including the great core) since 2015. they play a decent game and disappear for 3. The only player who came to play and compete every game was #50 and he bailed their sorry asses out over the last 3 years and is being asked to do it again.

Play smarter and harder as a team = success

Performance under adversity is the true test of one's value. Let's see how McD markets his way out of last place and still fills the coffers.
- Return of the Roar

(frank)ing A

Yeah it was Q's fault that Nick Leddy accidentally deflected the puck past Crow in Game 7 after forcing that Game 7 down 3-1 to the potential cup champs....
- nickmo2699

Q got outcoached throughout that Series, allowing a team seeded far lower than the Hawks, to move on to the Final, where the West team was going to win. Shouldn’t have been down at all, let alone 3-1. As the Hawks were a higher seed the Hawks had home ice for game 7 and blew leads of 2-0, 3-2 and 4-3, with the last tying goal being scored with around 8 minutes left. The Hawks were 8 minutes away from another Cup and should finished the game earlier after grabbing a 2-0 lead.

Agree that Gustafsson has made some improvement on defense this year and can be effective when he applies himself. But those moments are still fleeting and largely inconsistent. Hopefully Colliton can move the needle more from marginally better defensively to significantly better. Regardless, I still see Gustafsson as a liability more than an asset when it comes to defending.
- AEL_Fox

Erik Gustaffson has no business on an NHL blueline anywhere and no team that has him there will ever win anything.

He is a poor version of TJ Brennan who has bounced around to many teams and always wound up back in the AHL playing his version of non contact river hockey. As soon as Forsling is in shape to play he will be back in Chicago and none of us will have to watch Erik the Great again.

Q got outcoached throughout that Series, allowing a team seeded far lower than the Hawks, to move on to the Final, where the West team was going to win. Shouldn’t have been down at all, let alone 3-1. As the Hawks were a higher seed the Hawks had home ice for game 7 and blew leads of 2-0, 3-2 and 4-3, with the last tying goal being scored with around 8 minutes left. The Hawks were 8 minutes away from another Cup and should finished the game earlier after grabbing a 2-0 lead.
- Z3Hawk

Huh? The Hawks and Kings were both 3 seeds in their divisions and both finished with 46 wins in the regular season. The Kings were not a team that was "seeded far lower". Everyone knew that WCF was the two best teams in the playoffs, and it's what a lot of people expected. Both teams left it all out there and went to OT of game 7. It was the best offensive team against the best defensive team in the league. You're grasping at straws.

Erik Gustaffson has no business on an NHL blueline anywhere and no team that has him there will ever win anything.

He is a poor version of TJ Brennan who has bounced around to many teams and always wound up back in the AHL playing his version of non contact river hockey. As soon as Forsling is in shape to play he will be back in Chicago and none of us will have to watch Erik the Great again.
- RickJ

I respect your hatred of him, I hate Anisimov with a similar fire. However, Gustafsson is actually a serviceable dman. His underlying numbers paint him as one of the better defenseman on the team (not a high bar to reach). He drives play towards the other end, and twice this year he's assisted on a game winning goal. He still has plenty to prove in the d-zone, but I like what I've seen from him in transition and in the offensive zone. His underlying number check out.

Yeah it was Q's fault that Nick Leddy accidentally deflected the puck past Crow in Game 7 after forcing that Game 7 down 3-1 to the potential cup champs....
- nickmo2699

Quenneville so badly miscoached that 2014 series vs the kings it was laughable

Handzus was done that year, but because he played a role in winning the 2013 cup, Quenneville road that horse until it was dead

Had quenneville stopped forcing Handzus on the second line all series, they wouldnt have been down 3-1

It wasnt until mid game 6 that he finally stapled him to the bottom 6 and let Kane operate away from his slow corpse and inserted Shaw

Q got outcoached throughout that Series, allowing a team seeded far lower than the Hawks, to move on to the Final, where the West team was going to win. Shouldn’t have been down at all, let alone 3-1. As the Hawks were a higher seed the Hawks had home ice for game 7 and blew leads of 2-0, 3-2 and 4-3, with the last tying goal being scored with around 8 minutes left. The Hawks were 8 minutes away from another Cup and should finished the game earlier after grabbing a 2-0 lead.
- Z3Hawk

I agree that Q made some bone-headed decisions in that series, but I think you might be selling LA short. They finished with 100 points that year to the Hawks' 107. Both teams were third in their division.

Q got outcoached throughout that Series, allowing a team seeded far lower than the Hawks, to move on to the Final, where the West team was going to win. Shouldn’t have been down at all, let alone 3-1. As the Hawks were a higher seed the Hawks had home ice for game 7 and blew leads of 2-0, 3-2 and 4-3, with the last tying goal being scored with around 8 minutes left. The Hawks were 8 minutes away from another Cup and should finished the game earlier after grabbing a 2-0 lead.
- Z3Hawk

That series was one of the best playoff series around. Lazarus still says the hockey played in that series was the best he has ever seen.

LA won one of their 2012 Cup as an 8 seed, coming back from a 3-0 deficit in one series. That was one hell of a team. The fact we were a higher seed doesn't in and of itself mean we should have won or we got out-coached. You could say the same thing about every other team LA played in their 2012 Cup run then.

Q got outcoached throughout that Series, allowing a team seeded far lower than the Hawks, to move on to the Final, where the West team was going to win. Shouldn’t have been down at all, let alone 3-1. As the Hawks were a higher seed the Hawks had home ice for game 7 and blew leads of 2-0, 3-2 and 4-3, with the last tying goal being scored with around 8 minutes left. The Hawks were 8 minutes away from another Cup and should finished the game earlier after grabbing a 2-0 lead.
- Z3Hawk

Doesn't it say something that from 2009 through 2016 - in most of the series they played - the Hawks won some outrageous percentage of games 4-5-6 - somethink like 80% (we did some analysis of this several years ago - don't know what happened to the results)? (I think they were 2-2 in game 7s.)

Q, his staff, the players - they weren't that great in games 1-2-3 - but once they learned how the opponent would play, they could figure out how to win. Wasn't it three times they came back from down 1-3 (or, once, 0-3) to at least get to a game 7?

I put that on Q's ability to learn and plan victory, and the players' abilities to adjust.

I've been following the Hawks long before 84.
the GM provides you with a terrible roster so you fire the coach. Makes no sense.
- tompo1015

Only reason I stated anything about '84 was because you insinuated that people that were in favor of letting Q go were newer fans.

So, at what point do you put anything on the coach for getting better results out of the roster you have? The PP is a joke. PK is bad, Defensive coverage is horrible. If you've seen something that Q has tried to address these issues (aside from changing lines) please enlighten (I'm serious, because I haven't been able to find anything different in the concepts they run).

Dan Bylsma was a Stanley Cup winning coach. Following that they went out in the first or second round for a few years. Made it to the conference finals once, then missed the playoffs for two years. After Johnston is there for a year, Mike Sullivan comes in with a good deal of the same roster and wins back to back.

Couldn't agree more. I think that Q should have been shown the door after the first round exit to Nashville. He had a full season after that to make adjustments, and find ways to make this team raise their compete level, but it never happened. It was a great ride, but it's over and I'm happy to see a guy who took his AHL team to the Calder cup final in his first season get a chance to work with the young players on this team. The core players have already looked pretty good this year.
- Dieselhead

Except the Icehogs never made it to the Calder cup final. But Colliton did coach in Sweden and because Lidstrom, the Sedins and other swedes came from there that are future HOFers, that makes Colliton a great choice...apparently

Hopefully he'll coddle all the young players from being benched. They can play soft and have ice cream after the game. Gotta keep the entitled happy!

Doesn't it say something that from 2009 through 2016 - in most of the series they played - the Hawks won some outrageous percentage of games 4-5-6 - somethink like 80% (we did some analysis of this several years ago - don't know what happened to the results)? (I think they were 2-2 in game 7s.)

Q, his staff, the players - they weren't that great in games 1-2-3 - but once they learned how the opponent would play, they could figure out how to win. Wasn't it three times they came back from down 1-3 (or, once, 0-3) to at least get to a game 7?

I put that on Q's ability to learn and plan victory, and the players' abilities to adjust.
- StLBravesFan

In all of their Cup series, the Hawks were 8-1 in games 4/5/6 and never had to play a game 7. They were 4-5 in games 1-3(2-1,1-2,1-2)

I respect your hatred of him, I hate Anisimov with a similar fire. However, Gustafsson is actually a serviceable dman. His underlying numbers paint him as one of the better defenseman on the team (not a high bar to reach). He drives play towards the other end, and twice this year he's assisted on a game winning goal. He still has plenty to prove in the d-zone, but I like what I've seen from him in transition and in the offensive zone. His underlying number check out.
- ObeseOprah

Fine, enjoy watching him in games that are 8-7 when nobody is playing defence. But when a team has no PP and their PK is suspect then they cant afford a Dman who is cpmpletely clueless in his own zone. About the only thing they might be able to do with him is make him a power play specialist

Him and Nick Schmaltz drive me crazy. I can only imagine what Q thought of both of them.

Beautiful Dogs Enzo. Very, very nice. Our family always has a house with animals in it.

I separate Q and StanBo - you have to or your head explodes. I agree with you regarding StanBo. He should also be gone but it wasn’t going to happen - at least not at the same time. He had an atrocious off-season and dating back he has made some moves that were beyond idiotic. He has had a bubble of protection also. Should never have got the job in the first place - others knew more and had more experience. However, when your Father is Scotty GodCoach...
- Z3Hawk

Thanks Z, sorry to hear about your dog. Losing Man’s best friend is like losing a family member.

IMO, keeping StanBo only prolongs the suffering and lack of Direction. If they are a rebuilding team, why is Kunitz playing over Kampf or Highmore? Why bring in Manning when you have Dahlstrom who is better and has more upside? Even Hillman looked better in his games last year. Same can be said with goalies in Forsberg and Delia who are no worse than Ward but need game action.

Either blow it up and go young or add pieces that will actually help you win. Seems they are doing neither...stuck in limbo and wasting Kane’s elite play.

*NEW* blog up: https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=95769


... keep up the great chatter team.

Also, tune into the press conference on NBC live stream at 3pm CT to see what Stan and Co. say about this.

Except the Icehogs never made it to the Calder cup final. But Colliton did coach in Sweden and because Lidstrom, the Sedins and other swedes came from there that are future HOFers, that makes Colliton a great choice...apparently

Hopefully he'll coddle all the young players from being benched. They can play soft and have ice cream after the game. Gotta keep the entitled happy!
- PatShart

They can borrow some of Nashville’s participation trophies too

Gus has actually made some good defensive plays this year. He still makes mistakes too, but I think he has been far better defensively than previous years.
- ToewsdNKanefusd

Thanks damning by faint praise. He's good for 4-5 bad D zone turnovers a game, with at least 1 weak, blind backhand pass into the center of the ice.,

I see a lot of parallels with Detroit as hard as we had hoped not to follow in their footsteps. We saw the Hawks build a great, young, deep, talented roster that produced multiple Cups, like Detroit. Check. We saw that once the depth of the team was lost, they became a bubble playoff team riding the core and able to make the playoffs but not able to have success or make a deep run (St Louis series a few years ago, Nashville series). Check.

Then as the core performance slipped, the league appears to have passed them by as the depth around the core is still substandard and the core themselves have had time and age wear away their top abilities. (last couple years. Check).

It was the rich young talent we had that the team rose to such levels of success. And it will be the young talent we develop that will pull this team back up out of the mire. The question is how long it will take that to happen. It seems that after ten years of Stan we finally have a dman pipeline. But nothing in goal, nothing at center, and nothing on wing.

Unless we are able to add draft capital somehow without losing key personnel, it is going to be ugly for awhile until it starts to get better. (Again, see Detroit)
- hereismike1

That is just the reality of a capped league in which once players get to a certain age, decline is sometimes precipitous. Take a look at the teams that have won multiple cups over the last 20 years, Hawks, Wings, Kings, Devils, Penguins. They all follow similar paths, especially since the cap in '05 came into play. Young players and some vets gel to go to a cup, players salary increases as success dictates "paying them", team drafts lower in each round effecting future depth, team loses players due to cap, remaining "core" ages and is less effective, team becomes less competitive as talent depth is lacking.

All of those teams had success for a few years followed by the inevitable fall. The Pens were unique in the 7 year gap between Cups. Drafting lower in rounds generally produces lower line players and bottom pair defenders. Prospects that are anomalies to those rules typically are older when they reach the NHL (college players, euro/KHL or multiple years in the minors).

These are the realities of a capped league and drafts determined by record.