I think the Q firing did more damage than a lot of people think.
- Hank3Henshaw

I think it’s the timing and the way they fired him, the optics were horrible. Obviously this kind of thing isn’t McD’s strong suit.

Blackhawks lineup
Schmaltz-Toews-Kane
Fortin-Anisimov-Hayden
DeBrincat-Kampf-Kahun
Kunitz-Johnson-Martinsen

Keith-Seabrook
Gustafsson-Jokiharju
Davidson-Rutta

— Scott Powers (@ByScottPowers) November 12, 2018

I'm not ready to tear it down, crazier things have happened to teams on longer losing streaks.

They do need to dump some of the dead weight, either through trades or send downs to Rockford.

Anisimov, Martinsen, Manning, Kunitz, Hayden, Kampf, Johnson, Rutta. I wouldn't mind seeing all of them get either traded or time in Rockford.

The only players I've seen perform decently well are Kane, Toews in the first 5 games, Saad his last five games, Schmaltz, and Debrincat, and sometimes Kahun.

It's hard to make the playoffs with 6 'good' players. Get some new blood in here stat.
- ObeseOprah

How could you possibly leave out the great Erik Gustaffson? He is my #1 target to jettison immediately.

No, but not good enough to miss.
- powerenforcer

I do not understand your reasoning. These are young players. How do you know whether or not they will win any Stanley Cups in their careers. Also there are many good players who never won cups in their careers but I would have them on my team.

Former Leafs assistant GM Mark Hunter on a possible return to the NHL one day: “We all know how hard it is to get in and the right position. Yeah, you’re always looking for things, but it’s gotta be the right situation, right position for myself.”

Blackhawks lineup
Schmaltz-Toews-Kane
Fortin-Anisimov-Hayden
DeBrincat-Kampf-Kahun
Kunitz-Johnson-Martinsen

Keith-Seabrook
Gustafsson-Jokiharju
Davidson-Rutta

— Scott Powers (@ByScottPowers) November 12, 2018

- DarthKane

Umm well that's some interesting combinations lol

Have any of these players been on a cup winning team?
- powerenforcer

Or (except for Hartman) ever even won a playoff series?

The bad news is that mgt stripped this poor team. They have almost nobody else anybody wants. The good news is that they can still squander the upcoming draft picks which will be worth more to the other teams.
- Savoy

The good news is that they actually won 3 Cups.

Look - Stan could have done a lot better the last three years - and possibly even before that in managing the cap and getting better returns for Leddy, Sharp, etc, and perhaps not having to give up so much to dump Bickell's and Hossa's contract.

But at least some of the problem has been the cap - and having to dump players - and the success leading to low draft picks.

How could you possibly leave out the great Erik Gustaffson? He is my #1 target to jettison immediately.
- RickJ

Sorry, I did forget him. I think he's probably a good jettison candidate. However, he'd be a fine 3rd pairing PP specialist on a decent team. Unfortunately we just can't shelter him enough to prevent tons of goals against. His defensive play is pretty bad. They last couple of games I've thought they should just put him at forward. He is good in the offensive zone and has some talented plays, but they need defensemen not more talented turnover machines.

His fancy stats looked outstanding heading into this season, but he doesn't pass the eye test now.

The whole front office of this team was in on trading away the crucial parts of this team for pretty much nothing in the end , not just Bowman . Q didn't help the situation by benching all the young players in favor of the veterans so what do we have now ? Kane is the only guy I would keep going forward but with all the candy handout contracts on this team , its seems impossible and so we have it ... A bad team for who knows how long ... Probably years ...

But ... no need to get all worked up everyday on here , the damage is done ... Perfect time to unload McD , Bowman , and Daddy Bowman who personally I can't believe let all this happen to this team with all his HOF Credentials ... He must be losing it from old age .. I would think that after the third cup , you would want to lose all the high dollar contacts while there value was high and start over then with a new group of good players but they waited too DAMN LONG . Getting rid of the Toews , Hossa , Seabrook , Crawford , and some of the other ridiculous contracts and keep some of the players we trading away for garbage would have gone a long way and who knows where we would of been now ...

Just let it BURN to the ground

Have any of these players been on a cup winning team?
- powerenforcer

Teuvo won with the 15 Hawks, actually scored some important goals. Not that he's a cure to what's wrong with the Hawks. That would be getting rid of McDonuts.

Now, if the Hawks could swing a deal with Toronto that included Duncan Keith, then maybe a deal for Nylander might make some sense. (If he could be had for around $7M per rather than the supposed $8.5M he’s looking for). One of the hang-ups with Toronto and Nylander, supposedly, is that Toronto views and wants to pay him as a winger whereas Nylander views himself more as a center, and wants to be paid as such. Maybe he could be the Hawks 1B center? Going back to a deal for Nylander, could a trade of: Nylander for Keith, Krys (or, it might take Mitchell) and a mid round pick. Here is the lines I would have then:

Schmaltz/Toews/Debrincat
Saad/Nylander/Kane
Ejdsell/Anisimov/Sikura
Martinsen/Kampf/Kahun
Kruger, Kunitz

Murphy/Jokiharju
Forsling/Seabrook
Gustafsson/Rutta
Manning

Obviously, there will be more changes after the season. This would be one step closer to putting together the next championship team. Just my two cents.

Justin - good points. I have been calling for a while now for the very lines you talk about.

Schmaltz off-wing LW, Toews, Saad off-wing RW

DeBrincat off-wing LW, Anisimov, Kane off-wing RW

Toews as a shooter needs Schmaltz who is s passer. Kane needs a shooter who is naturally DeBrincat. Would rather have a faster, grittier, fore-checking Centre in place of Anisimov but you only can do what you can do. People forget that Kane once had chemistry with Shaw. Anisimov also hurts Kane as doesn’t win the draws. The other thing to do is flip-flop Toews and Anisimov. Many teams load up on the theory that the super-line will score enough itself to lead to many wins. C has played D - T - K together so far in spurts.

The Kahun in the top 6 experiment seems to be over for now. He has skill and speed and with less pressure on a lower line he will do fine. Needs to start finding the net a bit - only 1 goal.

C has to start truly seeing what is going on with the D. Can’t have blinders on for any player. Gus has been absolutely atrocious with Rutta only slightly better. Gus by himself gave away the Carolina game and for this he was AWARDED the most ice time.

One thing that hasn’t been discussed much is the disconnect between many fans believing it was time for Q to leave and C being hired. The two issues are not connected. I for one thought it was time for a change. However, was C the best choice to replace him? C can’t just talk of tweaking. Need a truly new approach and immedietely. Implimenting new systems is one thing. However to trot out the same or similar D pairs and lines is not acceptable. To talk about playing pressing hockey and then to not have a very strong forecheck is not acceptable. To continue to have the same tired, passive PK is not acceptable. To continue to have Schmaltz mess up the first PP is not acceptable. As Edzo says need Anisimov for net front presence - he was very effective last year and had many PP goals. Fair or not the clock is running.

I'm hoping to let go of the Q firing tomorrow or the day after that. But for now, an argument could be made that instead of firing Q after losing to the Blues in 7 or the Preds in 4, the team would have been better off firing Stan and hiring a GM who would work better with Q. I generally could understand what Stan was trying to do with his moves but clearly trading Panarin and/or Hammer was not something Q had bought into.

Right now the only reason McD is a problem is because he thinks Stan - or the combo of he and Stan - is the solution. Once he realizes he needs a hockey person to be responsible for the roster now and into the future - and then get out of the way - he'll be fine. He can run the organization and take care of the brand and marketing.

The front office and coaches need to get on the same page in terms of the planning horizon: how long will it reasonably take to get back into Cup contention and then act accordingly.
- matt_ahrens

Agree, while there may be multiple symptoms of the problem, prioritization or order in which symptoms are addressed is key. To that point, Stan should have been let go first. If not first, at least at the same time as Q last week.

Yes, Foxy - all of this.

I would rephrase it as none of the three is / was the problem, but none is the solution - collectively or individually.

Each performed as required to have the success since 2008-09 - Q coaching a team ready to win to actually win, Stan providing the missing tools for the second three-year run, McD providing the business focus that provided the resources that Q and Stan used to find success.

But I’ve thought since last season that this is more of a rebuild than most others (including Hawk brass) saw - and Q and Stan were not the ones to rebuild.
- StLBravesFan

I like how you phrased it. Overall, good perspective on another way to think about Q, Stan, and McD. Definitely agree with your last point.

With Stan at the helm, I can tell you what I think he'll do - which is move guys like Rutta and lower line forwards for limited return.

If it were me, I would try to move Anisimov and even entertain moving Schmaltz for the right price.

I don't think other bigger pieces get moved in-season IMO.
- Justin Lowe

Yes, what you stated is how I believe any trades will play out in-season with Stan still GM. Good reason to reinforce the belief that he isn't the best person to retool or rebuild the Hawks. He and Q were both instrumental in the team's dominant run but moving forward they are/were proving to not be part of the solution.

I want to give some perspective on this recurring theme.

A lot of you claim to be old time Hawks fans. I don't think you really remember back far enough when you speak of "bad management".

I can take you back to the early 70s - when Bill Wirtz let Bobby Hull walk to the WHL, prompting thousands of season ticket holders turn in their seats. I can tell you that good ole Dollar Bill NEVER forgot that. At the time, he berated the Chicago fan base as disloyal. It prompted several low class moves - the worst in my eyes was firing Coach Reay with a pink slip under the coach's door.

I can also speak of several players meeting him with agents in tow, and Bill refusing to offer a contract, let alone negotiate. He never believed in a player dictating fair market value - you took what he offered, and would be happy to get it.

I fast forward to 2009 - when this piece of work died. Had that not happened, I am certain that Marian Hossa does not sign with the Hawks. And even if that team managed to luck into their first Cup, I seriously doubt that either Kane or Toews sees their 30 million "bridge" deals - which guarantees Cups #2 and 3 would never been realized.

I can also guarantee with Bill still owning the team, assets such as Keith, Sharp and Seabrook would have been sold off for lesser talent and draft picks - much of what some of you are clamoring for now. And he NEVER would have spent up to the cap limits to help this team compete. He took that one with him to his grave!!!!

This franchise would be in full rebuild mode right now - and would go back to being a complete failure in all aspects of a "professional" sports team.

So, whining and complaining about Stan Bowman, and John McDonough for the job done to keep this team in contending conversations for nearly a decade, and the price paid to do so in the Gary Bettman watered down parity era, I wouldn't be so quick to call them out for what's left of this team - after attempting to win multiple Cups. Did they fall short in some years - yes. But don't dismiss the effort. Past management would never have tried in the first place.
- dahawks8819

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and background history on management. Good read and helpful to put things in perspective. Definitely agree with your last paragraph.

I would have preferred DCat-Toews-Kane but Schmaltz-Toews-Kane is intriguing - looking forward to seeing how it works tonight. This is one of the things I disagreed with Q about and was hoping JC would do - playing Toews and Kane together.

Honestly Keith for Nylander would be a pretty good trade for both teams.
- Panarin27

Keith for Nylander, a 1st, and a 4th.

Toronto needs D desperately and they are in no position to negotiate since Nylander isn't signed and won't sign with them.

Keith is a proven winner and he is a top 2 defender on most teams. He also has a pretty reasonable contract.

For once, the hawks have leverage and we have what Toronto wants/needs.

Agree with all of this. Bill Wirtz and Harold Ballard - 2 idiots generally responsible for long periods of darkness for their franchises.

Selling off proven talent in order to tank and rebuild from scratch is not a formula that works very often and it is usually 5 years plus of hell when a team takes that approach (Buffalo, Edmonton, Arizona, Ottawa, Florida, Carolina). Accumulated draft picks and salary cap space assure nothing and don't sell tickets. Instead work harder at scouting and player development at the minor league level.
- RickJ

Great post. This is why I'm not in the camp for the Hawks to do a fire sale and/or tank job. I believe the team has some good pieces in place on the roster, in Rockford, and in the prospect pipeline around the world. Focus on drafting well and solid prospect development on top of a good head coach for today's NHL.

There's the dilemma, though: Colliton could be a good head coach and what the Hawks need moving forward, yet, management took away from Rockford the one person who turned that franchise around in terms of a better ROI with prospects (versus Dent at least and maybe even prior).

There's time to make sure the Hogs have a viable replacement for Colliton. The scouting department seems solid under Kelley (just need Stan to listen to them, if rumor is correct that they're not on the same page). Player personnel management at the NHL level could be much better whether that is working with current Hawks or scouting players on other teams.

Umm well that's some interesting combinations lol
- Savetheembers33

Something tells me Hayden is a place holder for Saad..... interesting combos though including the D pairings.

Edit: and a desperate attempt to put together a semi decent third scoring line.

On Crawford's dipping numbers

https://chicago.suntimes....ype=cst_article&p=1494165

Watching him in the games and interviews of late, I suspect some of his post-concussion symptoms have returned, but only he could tell us that.

That's 2 guaranteed top 6 forwards and 3 bottom 6 probables that would undoubtedly have made this team more of a contender than they are currently.
WOW............that's horrendous mismanagement of young talent.
Who's to blame, Stan alone or EVERYBODY in the decision making process ?
If these decisions were made as a TEAM, this organization is in more trouble than we all are speculating.
- Hawkytalk

At the very least, I think McEgo has to share the blame in this. Even when JJ was still here, there were numerous conversations here that alluded to that. I still recall many here who thought that he had too much to say about what the hockey opps guys did all in the name of marketing. Even if that's only partly true, just a bad way to run any pro sports team. Bottom line is, WINNING is what sells, not "One Goal" commercials.

Blackhawks lineup
Schmaltz-Toews-Kane
Fortin-Anisimov-Hayden
DeBrincat-Kampf-Kahun
Kunitz-Johnson-Martinsen

Keith-Seabrook
Gustafsson-Jokiharju
Davidson-Rutta

— Scott Powers (@ByScottPowers) November 12, 2018

- DarthKane

Interesting ... in a bad way. Saad and Kruger injuries aren't helping.

We mostly agree that a hockey guy should be calling the hockey shots. But be careful what you wish for. A lot of old school "hockey guys" are more like members of an old boys club. Colliton is known as an open minded independent thinker of the game and I think that's fantastic. And if SB gets re-assigned or deep sixed all together then the next GM needs to be on the same page as the coach. It was way obvious SB & JQ were not. It's a bummer Dudley bailed. Everywhere he goes teams improve after he's there for a few years.
- 6628

I could slightly agree with your point. However this downward spiral started 3 years ago. Stans awful trades of young assets while handing out lucrative NMC contracts to bottom 6 guys and his returns not panning out has really put this team into a position that they can't fix openly with many options.


Rocky should have stepped in like us fans our own 2 eyes do not deceive us of the lack of talent this team has and forced MC D to relieve Stan with the coach at the same time and placed a interim tag on colliton.


If the new GM decides this new coach is not who he wants he should be given full control to make that choice.