https://twitter.com/russi...tatus/1046754266290016256

At least two people in this thread repeat the urban legend that Sundquist dropped his head. The ground level video above clearly shows that he did not.

Congratulations. After years of lurking, the stupid comments in this thread got me to register. The Steve Moore revisionist stuff is beyond even commenting about.
- FoppaForever

I cant see where he got hit but regardless the St.Louis Player had no idea anyone was coming at him. Its part of the reason I hate the big open ice hits. Can you really tell me there is no intent to injure when someone has their head down and you rock them? Now when I say head down I mean looking at the puck. A Hockey hit has always been one that is done to separate the man from the puck. I dont see that with big open ice hits today. They go full speed and destroy the opposing player. Yes it is a clean hit but there sure as hell is intent to injure.

Ok? So you blame the people that get shot at concerts for attending the concert instead of locking themselves in their house like paranoid hermits?

Nobody is saying the world, or the NHL, is some sort of idealistic Utopian society where everything is as it should be. But that doesn't mean that you go victim blaming because guys try to go out there and do their jobs, which in this case requires them to play hockey.

It's not Oskar Sundqvist's fault that the NHL doesn't provide him with a Scumbag GPS tracker that alerts him every time Tom Wilson drags his knuckles over the boards and on to the ice.
- eichiefs9

No I am saying you cant expect everything to be the way you want it. Bad people exist. The concert thing didnt have a way to avoid it aside from people actually noticing signs that this guy was a danger to others. Not every situation has a way to avoid tragedy. Sometimes there is nothing you can do. My only point was that the expectation to go to a concert and be safe applies to stepping on the ice. All you have done in this debate is twist the words and put words in my mouth. You clearly have no idea what I mean.

He must not have elbowed anyone in the head at the concession stand, so he got out early for good behavior.

Has nothing to do with previous hits, he's going in for the hit and Oscar looks at him and does nothing but bury his head and take a weak shot on net...

I get the anger but it's a sport with checking and you have to be prepared...Oscar gets ready for the check and there's no head shot.
- Garnie

His head is lowered because he's already in a shooting position... Wilson hit him in the head, nothing else about the play matters. There is such a thing as pulling back on a hit when a player is in a position that will result in an "illegal" hit and/or obvious injury.

Bottom line is Wilson was lining him up from the red line on, it didn't matter what the outcome was going to be, he was going to blind side the guy because that's what Wilson does, and that in and of itself is dirty play.

He must not have elbowed anyone in the head at the concession stand, so he got out early for good behavior.
- Hooligan21

Disciplinary system is a joke. Yes there are somethings that happen by accident. Hockey is a fast pace game, bad hits happen but you can clearly see some players target the head, or go out of their way to hit someone hard. As far as swinging the stick around, it should be no tolerance for anyone who tries to use their stick as a weapon. There is a huge difference between a swing to the head and a love tap on the hand or shin pad. Duncan Keith Suspension was an embarrassment. He should not have seen the ice at all during the playoffs

His head is lowered because he's already in a shooting position... Wilson hit him in the head, nothing else about the play matters. There is such a thing as pulling back on a hit when a player is in a position that will result in an "illegal" hit and/or obvious injury.

Bottom line is Wilson was lining him up from the red line on, it didn't matter what the outcome was going to be, he was going to blind side the guy because that's what Wilson does, and that in and of itself is dirty play.
- MnGump

But but but shouldn't players be looking behind them and away from the net when they shoot the puck...geez I have been doing this wrong my whole life.

No I am saying you cant expect everything to be the way you want it. Bad people exist. The concert thing didnt have a way to avoid it aside from people actually noticing signs that this guy was a danger to others. Not every situation has a way to avoid tragedy. Sometimes there is nothing you can do. My only point was that the expectation to go to a concert and be safe applies to stepping on the ice. All you have done in this debate is twist the words and put words in my mouth. You clearly have no idea what I mean.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

If you're not saying that you don't have a reasonable expectation of a certain degree of safety playing in the NHL then please explain it to me better, because that's absolutely how it's coming off.

Should have been suspended for 40 games. 14 is an absolute JOKE. He’ll be involved in another head hunting incident within his first 5 games back.

His head is lowered because he's already in a shooting position... Wilson hit him in the head, nothing else about the play matters. There is such a thing as pulling back on a hit when a player is in a position that will result in an "illegal" hit and/or obvious injury.

Bottom line is Wilson was lining him up from the red line on, it didn't matter what the outcome was going to be, he was going to blind side the guy because that's what Wilson does, and that in and of itself is dirty play.
- MnGump

You already have your mind made up before you've even seen the play by the sounds of it...( they are both moving very fast, he doesn't put his head down til he's in the trolly tracks )

I see it differently but I see the other side, not 100% in agreement but whatever....easy for me watching a replay and slowing it down, not so easy for Oscar I guess.

Should have been suspended for 40 games. 14 is an absolute JOKE. He’ll be involved in another head hunting incident within his first 5 games back.
- SimpleJack

what precedent has ever been set that an illegal open ice hit (charging, blindside, late etc.) deserves 40 games?
3-5 games tops, he got an extra dozen for being a repeat offender.....way more than enough.
there needs to be a set number, whatever that may be....let's say 5 games for an illegal hit, which doubles each time the offence is repeated. It needs to be clear.
where the hell do you just magically come up with 40 games???
three or four years ago, that hit is on every 'best hit' reel from tsn to espn....now all of a sudden every self righteous hockey fan just wants to throw the book at anyone who crosses the line?
gimmie a break.....that hit is nowhere near as 'dirty' as some of the stuff considered a 'hockey play' a mere few years ago.

You already have your mind made up before you've even seen the play by the sounds of it...( they are both moving very fast, he doesn't put his head down til he's in the trolly tracks )

I see it differently but I see the other side, not 100% in agreement but whatever....easy for me watching a replay and slowing it down, not so easy for Oscar I guess.
- Garnie

It's a difference in perspective.

You believe everyone should watch where YOU are going and get out of the way, while he believes a person should be responsible for themselves and to be aware of others too.

If you're not saying that you don't have a reasonable expectation of a certain degree of safety playing in the NHL then please explain it to me better, because that's absolutely how it's coming off.
- eichiefs9

I have an expectation of safety to a certain extent. The League should be doing all they can to prevent danger to their players but you cant protect them from everything. Guys like Bertuzzi have always existed and still do in the NHL. They cant stop these guys from doing anything to harm other players, they can only stop it from happening again which they are not doing a good job of.

In the Bertuzzi situation, there was no way the NHL could have prevented that. As far as I am aware, he had no priors before that incident. No way to predict that would happen. One thing you can count on happening is a frustrated player doing something stupid. Usually it doesnt go that far, its usually a slash, crosscheck, scrum or punch to the face. One thing I will point out is that no one did Moore any favours that day piling on top of him after the assault. I think a total of four guys ended up jumping on top of Bertuzzi while he was on top of Moore.

To this day sucker punches still happen, no one has been seriously injured like Moore but they still happen more often then they should. NHL should be doing a better job of discipline but you never know when stuff like that is going to happen. If it happened a 2nd time then the argument would be there because he did it once before and the NHL did not do a good enough job preventing it. Some argue he should have been banned for life which is fine but that has to apply to ALL players who throw sucker punches regardless of the end result.

It's a difference in perspective.

You believe everyone should watch where YOU are going and get out of the way, while he believes a person should be responsible for themselves and to be aware of others too.
- Glak18

I know when I played you were paying attention to your surroundings as everyone was trying to run you, it's a contact sport ( and it's still that way in all contact leagues ) There's a reason they say "don't cut across the blue line"

Anyways, it cost him a lot of money and 16 games. Maybe he should be banned for life...I don't know....JMO that it wasn't all on him when I watched the replay... Oscars head isn't down until a split second before the hit.

I have an expectation of safety to a certain extent. The League should be doing all they can to prevent danger to their players but you cant protect them from everything. Guys like Bertuzzi have always existed and still do in the NHL. They cant stop these guys from doing anything to harm other players, they can only stop it from happening again which they are not doing a good job of.

In the Bertuzzi situation, there was no way the NHL could have prevented that. As far as I am aware, he had no priors before that incident. No way to predict that would happen. One thing you can count on happening is a frustrated player doing something stupid. Usually it doesnt go that far, its usually a slash, crosscheck, scrum or punch to the face. One thing I will point out is that no one did Moore any favours that day piling on top of him after the assault. I think a total of four guys ended up jumping on top of Bertuzzi while he was on top of Moore.

To this day sucker punches still happen, no one has been seriously injured like Moore but they still happen more often then they should. NHL should be doing a better job of discipline but you never know when stuff like that is going to happen. If it happened a 2nd time then the argument would be there because he did it once before and the NHL did not do a good enough job preventing it. Some argue he should have been banned for life which is fine but that has to apply to ALL players who throw sucker punches regardless of the end result.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Then I misunderstood what you were getting at. For the record, I didn't think you were defending Wilson, just that you were making excuses under the guise of "sometimes bad things happen".

Obviously things are going to happen that shouldn't, but the "Sundqvist put himself in a bad spot and it's his fault" crowd is moronic.

The only thing I disagree with (somewhat) is the bolded. I don't think Wilson should have been "banned for life", yet. I don't think you can throw the same amount of games at anyone who does what Wilson has done, unless they've done it with the same frequency and blatant disregard for ever learning how to play a in a different manner.

What I do think is that Wilson should be suspended for 82 games the next go-around and flat-out removed from the league after that. He clearly can't wrap his feeble mind around how to play physically without playing dirty and he represents a serious danger to other people on the ice.

This is 100% on the NHLPA - not on the NHL nor its DoPS. Very rarely do "independent" arbitrators take a strong stand against a union position (in any matter) and this one of course is no exception. Usually they take a position somewhere between the "midpoint" and the union's position.

If the NHLPA cared about the health and safety of its players it would not have allowed Wilson to appeal. Unfortunately the NHLPA has traditionally been led by older mediocre players (e.g. Ron Hainsey), who strive for mediocrity and still believe that there is a niche for players like Tom Wilson. The NHLPA does not care about star players nor about younger players and I think is even biased somewhat against non-North American players.

The only way the NHLPA will actually care is when and if Tom Wilson actually kills someone on the ice.

Shanahan should be rehired to the department of player safety , George Parros just blew it....

Then I misunderstood what you were getting at. For the record, I didn't think you were defending Wilson, just that you were making excuses under the guise of "sometimes bad things happen".

Obviously things are going to happen that shouldn't, but the "Sundqvist put himself in a bad spot and it's his fault" crowd is moronic.

The only thing I disagree with (somewhat) is the bolded. I don't think Wilson should have been "banned for life", yet. I don't think you can throw the same amount of games at anyone who does what Wilson has done, unless they've done it with the same frequency and blatant disregard for ever learning how to play a in a different manner.

What I do think is that Wilson should be suspended for 82 games the next go-around and flat-out removed from the league after that. He clearly can't wrap his feeble mind around how to play physically without playing dirty and he represents a serious danger to other people on the ice.
- eichiefs9

Banned for life part was about Bertuzzi. Wilson should be suspended but they guy is running low on 2nd chances IMO soon its going to have to come to a life ban. Hockey is a complicated sport. In this situation Wilson is at fault but there are times where players do put themselves in vulnerable positions. We see it often in the corners where guys will turn their backs as the hit is coming. Its not something I think is done on purpose but the hitter usually gets the penalty and its not always fair to them, sure sometimes they can let up but not all the time. I just get the feeling that in today's NHL hitting is about trying to hurt your opponent instead of separating them from the puck, even the clean hits.

I know when I played you were paying attention to your surroundings as everyone was trying to run you, it's a contact sport ( and it's still that way in all contact leagues ) There's a reason they say "don't cut across the blue line"

Anyways, it cost him a lot of money and 16 games. Maybe he should be banned for life...I don't know....JMO that it wasn't all on him when I watched the replay... Oscars head isn't down until a split second before the hit.
- Garnie

As someone who has played as well, I have been in Wilson's skates before. When I wanted to hit someone I knew exactly what I wanted to do, other times I would peel off.

I know exactly what you mean by "don't cut across the blue line", that fear of a blueliner stepping up is dangerous. Unfortunately this is not someone stepping up, this is a player coming from behind and across to lay out a player. The exact same situation like the Mike Richards hit on David Booth and the NHL has made it perfectly clear for many years now...YOU DO NOT DO THIS, IT IS ILLEGAL. Even if Sundqvist's head was up before shooting, it is still a blindside hit.

Banned for life part was about Bertuzzi. Wilson should be suspended but they guy is running low on 2nd chances IMO soon its going to have to come to a life ban. Hockey is a complicated sport. In this situation Wilson is at fault but there are times where players do put themselves in vulnerable positions. We see it often in the corners where guys will turn their backs as the hit is coming. Its not something I think is done on purpose but the hitter usually gets the penalty and its not always fair to them, sure sometimes they can let up but not all the time. I just get the feeling that in today's NHL hitting is about trying to hurt your opponent instead of separating them from the puck, even the clean hits.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

I'm not gonna demonize anyone who catches someone with a headshot or a dirty hit if it's a one-time thing and they don't have a history, (I mean if it happens twice over 6 years I'm not going to either, honestly) but guys that just repeatedly prove that they haven't learned is just unacceptable, and frankly Tom Wilson is the new Matt Cooke in that department.

No argument that guys don't sometimes put themselves in vulnerable positions, but I don't think Sundqvist was one of them and I don't necessarily think Steve Moore was...but I don't care to go back and watch/re-live that garbage again either. I can live with someone getting injured if they turn along the boards at the last second and get creamed, but the crowd that conveniently says "hur dur shud've kept ur head up" every time someone gets blindsided are the lowest common denominator of intelligence and objectivity.

what precedent has ever been set that an illegal open ice hit (charging, blindside, late etc.) deserves 40 games?
3-5 games tops, he got an extra dozen for being a repeat offender.....way more than enough.
there needs to be a set number, whatever that may be....let's say 5 games for an illegal hit, which doubles each time the offence is repeated. It needs to be clear.
where the hell do you just magically come up with 40 games???
three or four years ago, that hit is on every 'best hit' reel from tsn to espn....now all of a sudden every self righteous hockey fan just wants to throw the book at anyone who crosses the line?
gimmie a break.....that hit is nowhere near as 'dirty' as some of the stuff considered a 'hockey play' a mere few years ago.
- Barx

This RIGHT HERE is the mindset that allows head hunters to get away with their actions, and continues to get innocent players injured.

A new precedent must be set pure and simple, especially for repeat offenders that are blatantly going out there and attempting to injure opponents. If you’re putting that much force into a head shot don’t give me the “he wasn’t trying to hurt/injure him, it was an accident” excuse. He knows exactly what he’s doing and he needs to be the poster child for change in the sport. This nonsense needs HARSH punishment if it’s ever going to stop. If not and the league sticks with these 5-10 game suspensions nobody is ever going to care enough to change their ways. 40 games or a half season however is a step in the right direction that will actually force these dirt bags like Wilson to stop.

I suspect the league has advised him how many games his next suspension will be. We''ll see in about 6 games. Never going to change his style. Mark my words. Just hope it's not a Leafer.

As long as a $4+ Billion league can deal with head shots by cutting a cheque for $19m every 10 years or so does Bettman see a problem?

Get rid of the candy a** instigator rule and let players take care of their own ! Obvious the league has no effing clue on how to do it

I'm not gonna demonize anyone who catches someone with a headshot or a dirty hit if it's a one-time thing and they don't have a history, (I mean if it happens twice over 6 years I'm not going to either, honestly) but guys that just repeatedly prove that they haven't learned is just unacceptable, and frankly Tom Wilson is the new Matt Cooke in that department.

No argument that guys don't sometimes put themselves in vulnerable positions, but I don't think Sundqvist was one of them and I don't necessarily think Steve Moore was...but I don't care to go back and watch/re-live that garbage again either. I can live with someone getting injured if they turn along the boards at the last second and get creamed, but the crowd that conveniently says "hur dur shud've kept ur head up" every time someone gets blindsided are the lowest common denominator of intelligence and objectivity.
- eichiefs9

He should’ve kept his head up.

Get rid of the candy a** instigator rule and let players take care of their own ! Obvious the league has no effing clue on how to do it
- twpguy

100%

Worst thing the league did.