Tuch is 22 and theoretically closer to his peak age of 24 while Chychrun is only 20.
- Feds91Stammer

Chychrun played more games in the NHL...and no every kid reach their peak at the same speed

I don't agree that second line forwards are as easy to come by as you make it sound. Especially not forwards at 6'4. I guess you can throw anybody on the 2nd line and call them a second line forward.

I don't know how you can say with such certainty that Tuch "almost certainly is at his absolute best a second liner." Are we working with the same information, James?

He was taken 18th overall and he's been very productive at the jr., college and AHL levels. He put up 15 goals in his rookie season last year playing 15 minutes a game. With even small improvements he looks like a guy who will be a 20+ goal scorer for a long time.

So he's a young big talented player with a good pedigree, who's shown the ability to score and looks like he'll be able to score at a top 6 rate over the next several years. Seems to me like the kind of guy you should lock up long term.

In fact, his production last year (and the cap hit and term on his extension) is remarkably similar to Christian Dvorak. I seem to remember you describing that deal as a smart one for the team to make. I'm interested in what you think is so different in Tuch's case.
- Coburns_Nose

A 20 plus goal scorer is not a first liner. A first liner, which I would define as someone capable of 30+ or 80 points, and not just in a career year, is worth locking up long term.

If Alex Tuch is a star player, he's an extremely late bloomer. I think you're right, I think he can be a very solid 20 or even 25 goals for the duration of his contract. But my point is that that isn't star production, and its not worth locking up for six years. If I was a GM, only potential stars are getting six years or more.

I am not knocking Tuch, good player. And also, he's 22 I can say that with relative certainty, he is not a star player. He may surprise me, but that is an out of the blue occurrence and you can't account for it.

A 20 plus goal scorer is not a first liner. A first liner, which I would define as someone capable of 30+ or 80 points, and not just in a career year, is worth locking up long term.

If Alex Tuch is a star player, he's an extremely late bloomer. I think you're right, I think he can be a very solid 20 or even 25 goals for the duration of his contract. But my point is that that isn't star production, and its not worth locking up for six years. If I was a GM, only potential stars are getting six years or more.

I am not knocking Tuch, good player. And also, he's 22 I can say that with relative certainty, he is not a star player. He may surprise me, but that is an out of the blue occurrence and you can't account for it.
- James_Tanner

PPG players don't sign for less than 5mil James. If your criteria for a 1st line player is 80 points and 30 goals, there was only 20 1st liners last year and around 5 or 6 of them the previous two years before that. That math doesn't add up for 3 for each team, that's for sure! That's just taking those over 80 points, not even looking at goals.

You're moving the goal posts by asking Tuch to be a ppg player or a "star player". He doesn't need to be that for his deal to look good.

For clarity, Nylander is apparently looking for around 8 mil for only 60 points in consecutive years, where as Leafs fans hope to lock up Marner for 8 or 9 after it looks like he's going to have a ppg season (if he keeps up what he's doing, which I think he will).

Anyone that locks up a "1st liner" (Tanner edition) for less than 5 million would be a genius. Locking up a "2nd liner" (Tannder edition) for 4.75 mil, assuming 20-25 goals a season, 50-60 points, would also there be rather smart.

If Tuch reaches those rather less lofty numbers for your impression of a 2nd liner, I'd say Vegas made a smart signing.

PPG players don't sign for less than 5mil James. If your criteria for a 1st line player is 80 points and 30 goals, there was only 20 1st liners last year and around 5 or 6 of them the previous two years before that. That math doesn't add up for 3 for each team, that's for sure! That's just taking those over 80 points, not even looking at goals.

You're moving the goal posts by asking Tuch to be a ppg player or a "star player". He doesn't need to be that for his deal to look good.

For clarity, Nylander is apparently looking for around 8 mil for only 60 points in consecutive years, where as Leafs fans hope to lock up Marner for 8 or 9 after it looks like he's going to have a ppg season (if he keeps up what he's doing, which I think he will).

Anyone that locks up a "1st liner" (Tanner edition) for less than 5 million would be a genius. Locking up a "2nd liner" (Tannder edition) for 4.75 mil, assuming 20-25 goals a season, 50-60 points, would also there be rather smart.

If Tuch reaches those rather less lofty numbers for your impression of a 2nd liner, I'd say Vegas made a smart signing.
- Thecakeisalie

Your all bogged down in semantics. Don't sign mid range Good not great wingers to long term deals, it's not that radical of a concept.

Your all bogged down in semantics. Don't sign mid range Good not great wingers to long term deals, it's not that radical of a concept.
- James_Tanner

For the sake of conversation let's say the above statement is true and correct and incontestable. How would you apply this to the Dvorak long term deal?

For the sake of conversation let's say the above statement is true and correct and incontestable. How would you apply this to the Dvorak long term deal?
- Coburns_Nose

I like the Dvorak deal because he's a centre, and could be a really good one. They're hoping he becomes a Ryan O'Reilly or a Nazem Kadri. If he was a winger, I wouldn't like it as much.

To be fair, I don't think the Tuch contract is terrible. It's just the Knights have a lot of long term contracts and none of them are high end players.

if only they had that elite scoring they traded away

Tuch is 22 and theoretically closer to his peak age of 24 while Chychrun is only 20.
- Feds91Stammer

Tanner logic says peak at 24 and then begin the steady decline until a player approaches 30, and is all but washed up and useless in the NHL.

if only they had that elite scoring they traded away
- 2Real

Who? Domi? Corsi says Galchenyuk is the far superior player. Plus the fact Max Domi and his dad are really dumb, thus Max is clearly the losing end of that trade.
Tanner Logic

Your all bogged down in semantics. Don't sign mid range Good not great wingers to long term deals, it's not that radical of a concept.
- James_Tanner

*You’re

Jesus, man

*You’re

Jesus, man
- AxlRose91

Really?

I like the Dvorak deal because he's a centre, and could be a really good one. They're hoping he becomes a Ryan O'Reilly or a Nazem Kadri. If he was a winger, I wouldn't like it as much.

To be fair, I don't think the Tuch contract is terrible. It's just the Knights have a lot of long term contracts and none of them are high end players.
- James_Tanner

What do you think Tuch's #'s would look like playing with a guy like Auston Matthews...he scored 10g 5v5 playing with Cody Eakins...almost as many as Willie Ny who had 160 more mins.

What do you think Tuch's #'s would look like playing with a guy like Auston Matthews...he scored 10g 5v5 playing with Cody Eakins...almost as many as Willie Ny who had 160 more mins.
- Garnie

I usually ignore you but today I will point out that goals are pretty random and so just throwing out some goal numbers with no context is not meaningful. Nylander and Tuch are clearly not even on the same level.

I usually ignore you but today I will point out that goals are pretty random and so just throwing out some goal numbers with no context is not meaningful. Nylander and Tuch are clearly not even on the same level.
- James_Tanner

Except when you use them...

Alex Tuch has a career high of 37 points

-James Tanner

It was an honest question, I'm not always out to get you...even when you make it easy with your daily contradictions.

Have a good evening.

Really?
- James_Tanner

Yes Danny

I usually ignore you but today I will point out that goals are pretty random and so just throwing out some goal numbers with no context is not meaningful. Nylander and Tuch are clearly not even on the same level.
- James_Tanner

If by "on the same level" ...You mean both of them being NHL players then you would be incorrect.
btw.....Tuch is crushing Nylanders #'s this year....Wouldn't you agree?

Tuch with 5G and 6A for 11pts in 11 games so far this year

But James pointed out that goals are pretty random