Is there income tax in Arizona? If not then that's a (frank) tonne of moeny plus endorsements. - AngryWhiteMale
What's interesting to me is everytime Arizona is brought up in signing Matthews to a record deal is, where will this $ come from is never asked.
This team is so broke they cheat to reach the cap floor yearly. They are losing 30 million+ yearly.
Location: not the BigSmoke anymore Joined: 10.29.2007
Dec 1 @ 1:14 PM ET
I'm not saying gender neutral clothing can lead to embarrassing misunderstandings and I am not, not saying that gender neutral clothing can lead to embarrassing misunderstandings. - Aetherial
What's interesting to me is everytime Arizona is brought up in signing Matthews to a record deal is, where will this $ come from is never asked.
This team is so broke they cheat to reach the cap floor yearly. They are losing 30 million+ yearly. - RogerRoeper
With revenue sharing they are losing 30+ million per....
Often, offer sheets are ridiculously front-loaded as well. Coyotees are broke.
And let's not confuse JT "Going home" with Matthews. JT left a bottom-feeder to join a rich cup contender. Matthews would be doing the exact opposite.
Location: not the BigSmoke anymore Joined: 10.29.2007
Dec 1 @ 1:16 PM ET
Would be great, still don't see how Dubas and the rest of the braintrust could manage the cap. Can you see Matthews signing for less than JT? I've written it out a dozen times.
Matthews 12
JT 11
Marner 9
Willy 7
Marleau 6
Riley 5
Anderson 5
Kadri 4.5
Zaitsev 4.5
Kap 4.5
Johnsson 3
Leaves about $9 M under an $80M cap still have many spots to fill - and we are not even mentioning Gardiner here. Reality is, Zaitsev, Nylander, Gardiner and not likely to be in the long range plans - even if they do something with the Marleau deal. - winsix
your big question still holds, but there's no way that Kapanen gets north of 4M or Johnsson gets anywhere near 3M per year.
the body of work is far too small and they are in exactly the same RFA siituation as Nylander - except with much much less statistical support
Location: "It's pretty big loogie on my face, so I was pretty psssted".", PA Joined: 06.26.2007
Dec 1 @ 1:18 PM ET
not talking about Marner...
and only because I'm mildly interested in what a Flyers fan feels about holdouts... with the Lindros drama (if you are old enough)... - BorjeFan4Ever
Yes, way before Lindros days for me.
but the two ends of the spectrum here are:
1) Kucherov signs a 2or3 year bridge deal at what 4.75... and Pastrnak signs a 6 year deal (taking away one or two years of Free Agency) at 6.6M
2) Nylander, who is not as good statistically or based on the eyeball test than either of those two... appears(none of know for sure factually) to be holding out for 7x7 and some sort of non-trade handshake
- BorjeFan4Ever
Well first thing most people do is assume every single situation is the same, this player signed for this so this player will do the same.
1) Both agent and teams play a big part in it. One agent may have a great rapport with the acting GM, whereas another agent may not. That makes a huge difference in negotiations.
2) How the player thinks about themselves or future. Nylander could think very highly of himself and have confidence that Kucherov and Pastrnak are not nearly as good as what he can do. I don't know that for fact, but that is huge in negotiations.
who's in the wrong here?
1) the Leafs for offering a contract probably aligned with Pastrnak money
or
2) the player for overvaluing himself (while his teams doesn't really appear to miss a beat) - BorjeFan4Ever
Neither is wrong, it's a business. Both are doing what they feel is best for themselves. That's where compromise needs to happen, but as we have seen both are firm on their stance so they can only blame themselves.
the Flyers had Lindros sit out basically because the "holy man" Boobby Clarke thought he could criticize the player for being concussed (I think Clarke himself was concussed a few times too many)...
what benefit did the Flyers get from having the player sit out? right or wrong? - BorjeFan4Ever
You just answered it below.
anyway, that Lindros situation completely different than Nylander because a) no CAP then, so Flyers/Clarke were just being cheap b) the Leafs have all the leverage over Nylander which the Flyers did not have with Lindros, Lindros was one of the top players in the game and wanted to be paid, Nylander isn't better than at least of guys who have signed for reasonable contracts... - BorjeFan4Ever
Again you basically answered the question yourself. Lindros has absolutely no similarities to the Nylander holdout. Probably way more better examples. Lindros didn't holdout because he felt he wasn't being compensated for his worth, he held out because of his relationship with Bobby Clarke and the animosity they both built up with each over his career injuries and how they were handled. Not the money. Pretty sure he was offered a 1 year 8.5m contract in 2001, which was HIGH for the time.
so why are you criticizing the Leafs management? and why would you assume that Marner would be treated the same way as Nylander? - BorjeFan4Ever
Who criticized the Leafs management? If I was in the Leafs situation I wouldn't meet the speculative demands Nylander is asking for. I also would not be happy if the Flyers traded for him, not just for giving up assets, but purely agreeing on paying him that much, if the speculation was true.
Marner hasn't held out, which makes a big difference. Why on earth would Marner not talk to a teammate who has gone through the same situation he is about to go through? At the time JT signed that deal with the Islanders, fans and the team loved it. There is no denying that. He signed it to help the team compete, he was told that would allow the team to help him win. Did it? What did JT accomplish in NY? You put JT in that same situation today, I guarantee he does it differently knowing what he knows now. If you are going to get paid later and have no guarantee the team will do what they say they will, wouldn't you want to get paid now instead of waiting?
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON Joined: 09.12.2007
Dec 1 @ 1:18 PM ET
With revenue sharing they are losing 30+ million per....
Often, offer sheets are ridiculously front-loaded as well. Coyotees are broke.
And let's not confuse JT "Going home" with Matthews. JT left a bottom-feeder to join a rich cup contender. Matthews would be doing the exact opposite. - RogerRoeper
No chance Marner has any desire to leave TO via an offer sheet. Kid loves his hometown favorite team.
With revenue sharing they are losing 30+ million per....
Often, offer sheets are ridiculously front-loaded as well. Coyotees are broke.
And let's not confuse JT "Going home" with Matthews. JT left a bottom-feeder to join a rich cup contender. Matthews would be doing the exact opposite. - RogerRoeper
Meh it's honestly up to him. He'll get more money and get to be 'the guy'. Plus if he's injured one more time this season people are gonna start asking questions. Hell I'd gladly take 4 firsts if we have reason to believe Auston will be on the IR for a good chunk of his career.
Well first thing most people do is assume every single situation is the same, this player signed for this so this player will do the same.
1) Both agent and teams play a big part in it. One agent may have a great rapport with the acting GM, whereas another agent may not. That makes a huge difference in negotiations.
2) How the player thinks about themselves or future. Nylander could think very highly of himself and have confidence that Kucherov and Pastrnak are not nearly as good as what he can do. I don't know that for fact, but that is huge in negotiations.
Neither is wrong, it's a business. Both are doing what they feel is best for themselves. That's where compromise needs to happen, but as we have seen both are firm on their stance so they can only blame themselves.
You just answered it below.
Again you basically answered the question yourself. Lindros has absolutely no similarities to the Nylander holdout. Probably way more better examples. Lindros didn't holdout because he felt he wasn't being compensated for his worth, he held out because of his relationship with Bobby Clarke and the animosity they both built up with each over his career injuries and how they were handled. Not the money. Pretty sure he was offered a 1 year 8.5m contract in 2001, which was HIGH for the time.
Who criticized the Leafs management? If I was in the Leafs situation I wouldn't meet the speculative demands Nylander is asking for. I also would not be happy if the Flyers traded for him, not just for giving up assets, but purely agreeing on paying him that much, if the speculation was true.
Marner hasn't held out, which makes a big difference. Why on earth would Marner not talk to a teammate who has gone through the same situation he is about to go through? At the time JT signed that deal with the Islanders, fans and the team loved it. There is no denying that. He signed it to help the team compete, he was told that would allow the team to help him win. Did it? What did JT accomplish in NY? You put JT in that same situation today, I guarantee he does it differently knowing what he knows now. If you are going to get paid later and have no guarantee the team will do what they say they will, wouldn't you want to get paid now instead of waiting? - Glak18
Still waiting on your Rebutal to my previous comment or do you admit you were wrong and just trolling?
Location: Burkie's Rented Barn, ON Joined: 02.12.2013
Dec 1 @ 1:24 PM ET
Yes, way before Lindros days for me.
Well first thing most people do is assume every single situation is the same, this player signed for this so this player will do the same.
1) Both agent and teams play a big part in it. One agent may have a great rapport with the acting GM, whereas another agent may not. That makes a huge difference in negotiations.
2) How the player thinks about themselves or future. Nylander could think very highly of himself and have confidence that Kucherov and Pastrnak are not nearly as good as what he can do. I don't know that for fact, but that is huge in negotiations.
Neither is wrong, it's a business. Both are doing what they feel is best for themselves. That's where compromise needs to happen, but as we have seen both are firm on their stance so they can only blame themselves.
You just answered it below.
Again you basically answered the question yourself. Lindros has absolutely no similarities to the Nylander holdout. Probably way more better examples. Lindros didn't holdout because he felt he wasn't being compensated for his worth, he held out because of his relationship with Bobby Clarke and the animosity they both built up with each over his career injuries and how they were handled. Not the money. Pretty sure he was offered a 1 year 8.5m contract in 2001, which was HIGH for the time.
Who criticized the Leafs management? If I was in the Leafs situation I wouldn't meet the speculative demands Nylander is asking for. I also would not be happy if the Flyers traded for him, not just for giving up assets, but purely agreeing on paying him that much, if the speculation was true.
Marner hasn't held out, which makes a big difference. Why on earth would Marner not talk to a teammate who has gone through the same situation he is about to go through? At the time JT signed that deal with the Islanders, fans and the team loved it. There is no denying that. He signed it to help the team compete, he was told that would allow the team to help him win. Did it? What did JT accomplish in NY? You put JT in that same situation today, I guarantee he does it differently knowing what he knows now. If you are going to get paid later and have no guarantee the team will do what they say they will, wouldn't you want to get paid now instead of waiting? - Glak18
Wow. Don't you have any, like, vacuuming to do, or grocery shopping?
Location: Everybody calm down, AB Joined: 07.24.2011
Dec 1 @ 1:25 PM ET
No chance Marner has any desire to leave TO via an offer sheet. Kid loves his hometown favorite team. - systemtool
I wonder if out of all the atheletes playing in the big 4 NA leagues, if the Leafs are the most naturalized team. Meaning its has the most athletes on the team from the city they play for. A crazy amount of NHL players are from the GTA.. Must be kinda cool being Matthews and going on a long road trip then returning and seeing many of your teammates return to their actual hometown. It must make him kinda feel like he's going home too.
Location: "Yeah, Garth is a tool"- Garf, ON Joined: 06.12.2017
Dec 1 @ 1:29 PM ET
your big question still holds, but there's no way that Kapanen gets north of 4M or Johnsson gets anywhere near 3M per year.
the body of work is far too small and they are in exactly the same RFA siituation as Nylander - except with much much less statistical support - BorjeFan4Ever
I think Kap is gonna get a contract for 2-3 years at $2.5-$3.5 million.
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON Joined: 09.12.2007
Dec 1 @ 1:31 PM ET
Yes, way before Lindros days for me.
Well first thing most people do is assume every single situation is the same, this player signed for this so this player will do the same.
1) Both agent and teams play a big part in it. One agent may have a great rapport with the acting GM, whereas another agent may not. That makes a huge difference in negotiations.
2) How the player thinks about themselves or future. Nylander could think very highly of himself and have confidence that Kucherov and Pastrnak are not nearly as good as what he can do. I don't know that for fact, but that is huge in negotiations.
Neither is wrong, it's a business. Both are doing what they feel is best for themselves. That's where compromise needs to happen, but as we have seen both are firm on their stance so they can only blame themselves.
You just answered it below.
Again you basically answered the question yourself. Lindros has absolutely no similarities to the Nylander holdout. Probably way more better examples. Lindros didn't holdout because he felt he wasn't being compensated for his worth, he held out because of his relationship with Bobby Clarke and the animosity they both built up with each over his career injuries and how they were handled. Not the money. Pretty sure he was offered a 1 year 8.5m contract in 2001, which was HIGH for the time.
Who criticized the Leafs management? If I was in the Leafs situation I wouldn't meet the speculative demands Nylander is asking for. I also would not be happy if the Flyers traded for him, not just for giving up assets, but purely agreeing on paying him that much, if the speculation was true.
Marner hasn't held out, which makes a big difference. Why on earth would Marner not talk to a teammate who has gone through the same situation he is about to go through? At the time JT signed that deal with the Islanders, fans and the team loved it. There is no denying that. He signed it to help the team compete, he was told that would allow the team to help him win. Did it? What did JT accomplish in NY? You put JT in that same situation today, I guarantee he does it differently knowing what he knows now. If you are going to get paid later and have no guarantee the team will do what they say they will, wouldn't you want to get paid now instead of waiting? - Glak18
Dude. Breathe. Take it easy. Calm down.. or just find somewhere else to be a complete (frank)ing scoont.
