He wasn't the short term solution either. He played his career best and Babcock still didn't give him more games than the minimum. They need a back-up who can take the load off Andersen and give him more nights off.
- Unholy_Goalie

Babs just wants to play his best players all the time. He even seems to get pissed when players are injured and the trainer's won't let them play. The only way he's gonna play a goalie over Andersen when he doesn't have to is if that goalie is better than Andersen.

I think they target Simmonds as a rental and a depth center and d.. that’s it.. They need someone to move hainsey down but I don’t see them paying what it would cost, I’m ok with that, they’ve earned my trust.

Babs just wants to play his best players all the time. He even seems to get pissed when players are injured and the trainer's won't let them play. The only way he's gonna play a goalie over Andersen when he doesn't have to is if that goalie is better than Andersen.
- HealthyScratch6

Then he's being stupid. Running Andersen into the ground is probably not going to work especially with the number of shots they give up on a consistent basis.

Babs just wants to play his best players all the time. He even seems to get pissed when players are injured and the trainer's won't let them play. The only way he's gonna play a goalie over Andersen when he doesn't have to is if that goalie is better than Andersen.
- HealthyScratch6

Exactly! Some people don’t like Anderson playing the amount he does but to (frank)ing bad.. the coach makes the decision

Then he's being stupid. Running Andersen into the ground is probably not going to work especially with the number of shots they give up on a consistent basis.
- Unholy_Goalie

Babs is dumb.. wish we went after someone smarter.. stupid babs and his terrible awful coaching.. 20-9 and we should be 28-1 for (frank)s sake

Then he's being stupid. Running Andersen into the ground is probably not going to work especially with the number of shots they give up on a consistent basis.
- Unholy_Goalie

Babcock is stubborn. McElhinney had a hell of a season last year. There was no reason not to trust him with a few extra games if he was going too. He had a .934 svpct. You think another goalie is gonna come in and out up better numbers than that.

Babcock is stubborn. McElhinney had a hell of a season last year. There was no reason not to trust him with a few extra games if he was going too. He had a .934 svpct. You think another goalie is gonna come in and out up better numbers than that.
- HealthyScratch6

McElhinney had a career year. The odds are that a journeyman back-up is going to have a career year again, at his age, are very low.

After 11 games, his numbers are already worse than last year. And he got hurt. Another 7-10 games won't make him match last years numbers and likely they get worse.

I'd trade liljegren before sandin even though he's a right shot.
- HealthyScratch6

Why? Interested to know when there is so little info to go on yet.

McElhinney had a career year. You what the odds are that a journeyman back-up is going to have a career year again, at his age? Very low.

After 11 games, his numbers are already worse than last year. And he got hurt. Another 7-10 games won't make him match last years numbers and likely they get worse.
- Unholy_Goalie

We're talking about last year. You said Babs never played him because he never won his trust. If a guy going 11-5 with a .934 svpct and a 2.14GAA playing behind a tired team on the tail end of a back to back all the time doesn't win his trust then no one will. Andersen played alot be Babs wanted him in every game. It had nothing to do with McElhinney.

Ps. I think Reilly is better than pietrangelo....so he'd be our #2 dman ; )

We're talking about last year. You said Babs never played him because he never won his trust. If a guy going 11-5 with a .934 svpct and a 2.14GAA playing behind a tired team on the tail end of a back to back all the time doesn't win his trust then no one will. Andersen played alot be Babs wanted him in every game. It had nothing to do with McElhinney.
- HealthyScratch6

He would have played him more than 18 games if he really was that good. Either that, or he is that good and Babcock is being stupidly stubborn. Either way, hurts the team.


And Babcock's stubbornness will yield pooptier end results if he makes making the same mistake with overworking Andersen. As it stands now, Andersen is on pace to play 64 games, face 2,100+ shots at an average of 33 shots per game. Want to guess how many teams have won a Cup in the past 25 years with a goalie who has faced more than 2,000 shots in a year, averaging 33+ per game?






Zero.

Why? Interested to know when there is so little info to go on yet.
- Dr. Leaf

Just the eye test. Never been impressed with liljegren when watching him. He's supposed to be an offensive defenseman but has never put up eye popping numbers anywhere. Not that solid defensively. Just seems like a good skater who makes a good stretch pass every now and then. I'm no scout or anything just my personal opinion. From the few games I watched sandin he just looked solid. Always made the smart play and didn't seem to get himself out of position.

Edit: would of been nice to have gotten Foote if (frank)ing Tampa didn't draft him with the pick before him.

Ps. I think Reilly is better than pietrangelo....so he'd be our #2 dman ; )
- mykokes

Not defensively. Pietrangelo kills penalties, plays more minutes, true two-way player. Probably puts up the same or more points if he had the offensive weapons the Leafs have to pass to, especially the easy points on the PP.

He would have played him more than 18 games if he really was that good. Either that, or he is that good and Babcock is being stupidly stubborn. Either way, hurts the team.


And Babcock's stubbornness will yield pooptier end results if he makes making the same mistake with overworking Andersen. As it stands now, Andersen is on pace to play 64 games, face 2,100+ shots at an average of 33 shots per game. Want to guess how many teams have won a Cup in the past 30 years with a goalie who has faced more than 2,000 shots in a year, averaging 33+ per game?






Zero.
- Unholy_Goalie

So Andy will be the first? Nice!

He would have played him more than 18 games if he really was that good. Either that, or he is that good and Babcock is being stupidly stubborn. Either way, hurts the team.


And Babcock's stubbornness will yield pooptier end results if he makes making the same mistake with overworking Andersen. As it stands now, Andersen is on pace to play 64 games, face 2,100+ shots at an average of 33 shots per game. Want to guess how many teams have won a Cup in the past 30 years with a goalie who has faced more than 2,000 shots in a year, averaging 33+ per game?






Zero.
- Unholy_Goalie

Do you think that might have something to do with the fact that teams giving up that many shots aren't usually good enough to win a cup.

Do you think that might have something to do with the fact that teams giving up that many shots aren't usually good enough to win a cup.
- HealthyScratch6

It's both. Teams giving up too many shots get scored on more often and therefore lose more often. That being said, if you're relying on your goalie to save your ass every game, maybe running that guy into the ground is a stupid idea. Maybe if you're going to give up that many shots, you have a capable back-up who can play 25-30 games so when the playoffs start, Andersen has got more gas in the tank both physically and mentally.

Just the eye test. Never been impressed with liljegren when watching him. He's supposed to be an offensive defenseman but have never put up eye popping numbers anywhere. Not that solid defensively. Just seems like a good skater who makes a good stretch pass every now and then. I'm no scout or anything just my personal opinion. From the few games I watched sandin he just looked solid. Always made the smart play and didn't seem to get himself out of position.
- HealthyScratch6

Thanks for the reply. It may turn out that way. I do think the eye test has some validity for sure, but does tend to be prone to recency bias and bias of a couple of good or bad single events standing out as a pattern beyond what really is there. Human brains are wired to look for patterns and make quick decisions
On them. Evolutionarily it kept us alive. Often instincts are right. I’d like to see a solid 1-2 years of development from them both before I have a formed opinion about it. It is fun to speculate and to watch our prospects. I hope your eyes are right on Sandin turning into a good defenceman; I hope Lilypad turns into a top four as well. Time will tell. As leaf fans we’ve been burned many times with defence prospects
That don’t pan out: Schenn. ware. Coliacovo. Berhowsky. Finn. Percey etc.. Kostik! And burned by those given up on and traded: stralman, Kenny Johnson etc.
Let’s hope both these guys turn out to be good, and if the Leafs do trade one let’s hope they make the correct choice. For now it seems we have good management in place to make good decisions on these matters (including not trading Nylander for Petrangelo).

It's both. Teams giving up too many shots get scored on more often and therefore lose more often. That being said, if you're relying on your goalie to save your ass every game, maybe running that guy into the ground is a stupid idea. Maybe if you're going to give up that many shots, you have a capable back-up who can play 25-30 games so when the playoffs start, Andersen has got more gas in the tank both physically and mentally.
- Unholy_Goalie

Or the leafs management and professional development department and number gurus have figured out a fun way to track the exertion that’s created on high end scoring chances versus low end ones geared specifically for their number one guy.. maybe they know approximately what he can and can’t handle given his fitness regime and psychological assessments to understand what exactly he’s capable of and when he needs a break? Maybe? They do have a top of the line training team

Thanks for the reply. It may turn out that way. I do think the eye test has some validity for sure, but does tend to be prone to recency bias and bias of a couple of good or bad single events standing out as a pattern beyond what really is there. Human brains are wired to look for patterns and make quick decisions
On them. Evolutionarily it kept us alive. Often instincts are right. I’d like to see a solid 1-2 years of development from them both before I have a formed opinion about it. It is fun to speculate and to watch our prospects. I hope your eyes are right on Sandin turning into a good defenceman; I hope Lilypad turns into a top four as well. Time will tell. As leaf fans we’ve been burned many times with defence prospects
That don’t pan out: Schenn. ware. Coliacovo. Berhowsky. Finn. Percey etc.. Kostik! And burned by those given up on and traded: stralman, Kenny Johnson etc.
Let’s hope both these guys turn out to be good, and if the Leafs do trade one let’s hope they make the correct choice. For now it seems we have good management in place to make good decisions on these matters (including not trading Nylander for Petrangelo).
- Dr. Leaf

I had such high hopes for finn but that had nothing to do with the eye test just from draft position and looking at his numbers in junior. Percy looked good when he first got called up for a few games but I guess he just fizzled out. It's really hard to draft good young players outside the top 10. Especially dmen. I wish the leafs had whoever Tampa has doing their scouting.

Or the leafs management and professional development department and number gurus have figured out a fun way to track the exertion that’s created on high end scoring chances versus low end ones geared specifically for their number one guy.. maybe they know approximately what he can and can’t handle given his fitness regime and psychological assessments to understand what exactly he’s capable of and when he needs a break? Maybe? They do have a top of the line training team
- Puck-us-all

Yeah Babs has said they track scoring chances not shots. That's why Corsi in unreliable. Look at Carolina. Pretty sure they lead the league but never score. Because they're just throwing garbage at the net constantly hoping for the best. Leafs pass the puck into the net.

Or the leafs management and professional development department and number gurus have figured out a fun way to track the exertion that’s created on high end scoring chances versus low end ones geared specifically for their number one guy.. maybe they know approximately what he can and can’t handle given his fitness regime and psychological assessments to understand what exactly he’s capable of and when he needs a break? Maybe? They do have a top of the line training team
- Puck-us-all

At least one insider said he was tired last year, as did Vasilevskiy who admitted he was also tired after playing as much as he did (which was less than Andersen).

Yeah Babs has said they track scoring chances not shots. That's why Corsi in unreliable. Look at Carolina. Pretty sure they lead the league but never score. Because they're just throwing garbage at the net constantly hoping for the best. Leafs pass the puck into the net.
- HealthyScratch6

That "garbage" changes in the playoffs when they start putting more bodies in front of the net. If you watch enough playoff hockey, you'll notice a lot more of those "garbage" shots turn into deflections, tip-ins, rebounds etc.

Granted, having skilled players who have higher shooting percentages is a good thing to have but being consistently out shot is historically a bad strategy and comes to bite the Leafs in the ass in the playoffs, especially against teams like the Bruins. All playoffs last year, people here kept telling me "Boston throws garbage at the net, they're such low danger shots" but how did that end?

That "garbage" changes in the playoffs when they start putting more bodies in front of the net. If you watch enough playoff hockey, you'll notice a lot more of those "garbage" shots turn into deflections, tip-ins, rebounds etc.

Granted, having skilled players who have higher shooting percentages is a good thing to have but being consistently out shot is historically a bad strategy and comes to bite the Leafs in the ass in the playoffs, especially against teams like the Bruins. All playoffs last year, people here kept telling me "Boston throws garbage at the net, they're such low danger shots" but how did that end?
- Unholy_Goalie

Leafs got lit up by the best line in the league last year in the playoffs. Pasternak Bergeron and Marchant were not throwing garbage shots on net. Maybe the Bruins other lines were but they weren't the ones that beat the leafs.

That "garbage" changes in the playoffs when they start putting more bodies in front of the net. If you watch enough playoff hockey, you'll notice a lot more of those "garbage" shots turn into deflections, tip-ins, rebounds etc.

Granted, having skilled players who have higher shooting percentages is a good thing to have but being consistently out shot is historically a bad strategy and comes to bite the Leafs in the ass in the playoffs, especially against teams like the Bruins. All playoffs last year, people here kept telling me "Boston throws garbage at the net, they're such low danger shots" but how did that end?
- Unholy_Goalie

I think it ended in the third period of game seven when a few players had one of they’re worst periods of hockey ever.. they didn’t lose because Andy was tired, they lost because they fell apart in the final period of a game seven.. they’re a better team all around and deeper.. under the exact same scenario with the team today they win

Leafs got lit up by the best line in the league last year in the playoffs. Pasternak Bergeron and Marchant were not throwing garbage shots on net. Maybe the Bruins other lines were but they weren't the ones that beat the leafs.
- HealthyScratch6

Their top line did the most damage but they weren't the only ones scoring. Go look at the boxscores, plenty of other guys getting those dirty playoff goals. It happens every year, the game changes in the playoffs. Space gets tighter, the physicality increases, the whistles get put away and the goals get dirtier. All those things don't benefit the Leafs style at all.