They're both problematic and I stated in an earlier post that in addition to a forward move they need an RD.

This team was never one with a d-core that you looked at and was like wow, that's a great defense. This team was built on the ability of its players to keep the puck on their sticks and transition well.

I think the problem is easier to address with forwards right now and needs to be done. If a true upgrade on defense can be had, then obviously jump on it. Making weird lateral moves are useless.
- Rinosaur

Honestly I’m not sure if stacking the forwards is going to do much if they don’t have Dmen that are capable of getting them the puck. While I think it’s easier to acquire forwards in general, I don’t know how much of the problem it would eliminate. You load up the forwards, but they’re pinned in their own zone a majority of the time because their D is awful at positional defense.

Jamie Oleksiak is 25. Thinking he was going to develop (many thought that) is a mistake. At the age of 25, you are what you are in the NHL for the most part. A third pairing defenseman is and always was his ceiling, regardless of the coach and GM pumping his tires.

Maatta in the other hand is a complimentary player ala Dumo. The sooner people accept that the better off they’ll be in their analysis of Maatta. He’s not going to be the guy on any pairing but he is more than capable of being a compliment to another guy who can be the offensive guy on the pairing.
- j.boyd919

At 25 you can improve, obviously not in leaps and bounds but you can still become a more solid player. Also at this age you should start to become a leader and maybe he is trying to be something he is not.

Maatta is frustrating as hell, sometimes it looks like he about to take his game to the next level and then the next game he looks like he is in over his head again.

Honestly I’m not sure if stacking the forwards is going to do much if they don’t have Dmen that are capable of getting them the puck. While I think it’s easier to acquire forwards in general, I don’t know how much of the problem it would eliminate. You load up the forwards, but they’re pinned in their own zone a majority of the time because their D is awful at positional defense.
- j.boyd919

Unless they’re good skating forwards who can help on zone exits and entries.

At 25 you can improve, obviously not in leaps and bounds but you can still become a more solid player. Also at this age you should start to become a leader and maybe he is trying to be something he is not.

Maatta is frustrating as hell, sometimes it looks like he about to take his game to the next level and then the next game he looks like he is in over his head again.
- Thunderbolt

I dunno. I don’t know many players who really make significant strides in their mid-20s.

I dunno. I don’t know many players who really make significant strides in their mid-20s.
- j.boyd919

Yeah most improvement in those years is related to role changes or PDO shooting percentage luck stuff.

Tear it down time?
- jmatchett383

No, making the playoffs is still the priority right now. After you get in anything can happen. The only move I make now is to improve the D. Adding third pairings and tweeners isn't working, especially with Schultz out. The problem now becomes who do you trade? I don't want to see Rutherford trade away the first or second pick at the moment. I think you will get a better player for the picks closer to trade deadline.

Unless they’re good skating forwards who can help on zone exits and entries.
- Rinosaur

Eh. I don’t think good skating forwards can make up for bad defensemen. You get pinned in your own zone for a bit, a forward comes low to help the D and C dig out pucks, they win the puck battle and have two options, hit the one forward exiting the zone or dump it to open ice. If you do hit the one forward exiting the zone, you’ve got 4 guys trapped behind the play and the puck carrier is generally going to go 1v2 through the neutral zone. Team goes to change because they’re tired, puck carrier dumps it in and they have to retrieve a dump in. Or the puck carrier enters the zone and tries to pull up to wait for the squad to enter the zone and ends up getting pressured and loses the puck as it’s turned the other way.

This is the problem that I’ve seen game in and game out with the Pens. Their in zone coverage is so bad, the forwards come so low that it hurts their breakout and entries and adding more forwards isn’t going to help that. Adding more competent defensemen would, IMO.

It’s the main difference between a forward group playing with Letangs pairings and the others.

No, making the playoffs is still the priority right now. After you get in anything can happen. The only move I make now is to improve the D. Adding third pairings and tweeners isn't working, especially with Schultz out. The problem now becomes who do you trade? I don't want to see Rutherford trade away the first or second pick at the moment. I think you will get a better player for the picks closer to trade deadline.
- Thunderbolt

Ken Holland? I didn't know you were on HockeyBuzz.

Eh. I don’t think good skating forwards can make up for bad defensemen. You get pinned in your own zone for a bit, a forward comes low to help the D and C dig out pucks, they win the puck battle and have two options, hit the one forward exiting the zone or dump it to open ice. If you do hit the one forward exiting the zone, you’ve got 4 guys trapped behind the play and the puck carrier is generally going to go 1v2 through the neutral zone. Team goes to change because they’re tired, puck carrier dumps it in and they have to retrieve a dump in. Or the puck carrier enters the zone and tries to pull up to wait for the squad to enter the zone and ends up getting pressured and loses the puck as it’s turned the other way.

This is the problem that I’ve seen game in and game out with the Pens. Their in zone coverage is so bad, the forwards come so low that it hurts their breakout and entries and adding more forwards isn’t going to help that. Adding more competent defensemen would, IMO.

It’s the main difference between a forward group playing with Letangs pairings and the others.
- j.boyd919

I don’t disagree with any of that, but I’m also trying to think of what the pens are capable of addressing via trade right now. Obviously if they can upgrade the defense that would be the best, but upgrading forwards may be more doable at this point

I don’t disagree with any of that, but I’m also trying to think of what the pens are capable of addressing via trade right now. Obviously if they can upgrade the defense that would be the best, but upgrading forwards may be more doable at this point
- Rinosaur

Green, Howard, and Nyquist can be packaged for the right price

Is there a chance the coach and JR work together to make decisions on player acquisitions? Is JR rogue taking flyers on players like JJ? Curious if Sullivan has any say in the process.
- sammy87

The coach has input but it is usually something along the lines of "Hey we need a face-off guy" or "I want a shooting defenseman". Then it is up to the GM to get that type of player.

Ken Holland? I didn't know you were on HockeyBuzz.
- Feds91Stammer

No, Holland probably has never been to Wampum either.

Green, Howard, and Nyquist can be packaged for the right price
- Feds91Stammer

I would be perfectly happy with all three players. What’s the ask?

I would be perfectly happy with all three players. What’s the ask?
- Rinosaur

Depends on how much you want me to retain on Nyquist and/or Howard.

No, Holland probably has never been to Wampum either.
- Thunderbolt

Was just a joke. But that bolded part is how you become a mediocre team for 5-10 years before finally bottoming out.

I dunno. I don’t know many players who really make significant strides in their mid-20s.
- j.boyd919

Dumo did. Scuderi did.

Depends on how much you want me to retain on Nyquist and/or Howard.
- Feds91Stammer

Well, that also depends on what you’re taking back. Let’s say addison and hallander are off the table.

Dumo did. Scuderi did.
- MattStrat

Based on what?

Well, that also depends on what you’re taking back. Let’s say addison and hallander are off the table.
- Rinosaur

2019 1st and 3rd. 2020 2nd. Schultz. Rust.

How does that sound?

Dumo did. Scuderi did.
- MattStrat

Dumo never improved. He has the same stats since coming into the league. His full 3 seasons have the same production give or take a few points. So he is what he is.

Same with Scuderi. He came into the league at 25 and his production stayed on a steady plateau.

2019 1st and 3rd. 2020 2nd. Schultz. Rust.

How does that sound?
- Feds91Stammer

Pass on Schultz

Pass on Schultz
- Rinosaur

Well I need some value back if you are taking your only useful prospects off the table.

What if I give you Schultz back when he is healthy 50% retained for Addison?

Maatta, Jarry, 1st and 2nd?

Was just a joke. But that bolded part is how you become a mediocre team for 5-10 years before finally bottoming out.
- Feds91Stammer

I got that, I was joking also.

You bottom out when you continue to have bad draft after bad draft. I realize that it is getting difficult to find good players after the first round but you still need to find the Jake Geuntzel's and Kris Letang's out there.

Plain and simple, GMJR (frank)ed up hardcore in building his blue line. The construction of it looks confused. The signings and acquisitions of JO and Johnson completely diverted from what made this team success. Pettersson I’ll wait to be the judge until I have a bigger sample size and maybe wait till he has a competent d partner.

He paid a premium to make the defense worse. And that’s what makes the Pens an average team this year.
- j.boyd919

I think our blueline is below average for sure, but I dont get the hate for Oleksiak. He cost basically nothing to acquire, is 25 years old, only costs $2M, and the only defenseman outside Letang that shows some semblance of physicality.

He's a little inconsistent but he gots a lot of D zone starts and is pretty good on the PK. He's an above average bottom pair defenseman. I don't see how you can criticize that acquisition.