Right so...if he got better in those years, his overall play rose and then fell off, isnt that peaking? hahah
- MattStrat

He didn’t get better in those years lol he was exactly the same. Hahahah

Right so...if he got better in those years, his overall play rose and then fell off, isnt that peaking? hahah
- MattStrat

See, I don't think he got better during his stay in Pittsburgh. I think he was a solid yet unspectacular bottom-4 guy, and that continued into his first year in LA before his play dropped tremendously.

What evidence do you have that says otherwise?
- j.boyd919

The fact that he didnt get a regular shift until 29 after years of AHL then becoming a top 4 on a Stanley cup team, from watching how good he was in the 2009 run and then with the Kings when they won in 2012...then seeing his play drop off to a point of abomination with the Pens the second time.

What evidence do you have?

See, I don't think he got better during his stay in Pittsburgh. I think he was a solid yet unspectacular bottom-4 guy, and that continued into his first year in LA before his play dropped tremendously.
- jmatchett383

He didnt become a regular NHLer until 28/29.

He didn’t get better in those years lol he was exactly the same. Hahahah
- j.boyd919

He was better in those years than his mid or early 20's man.

He didnt become a regular NHLer until 28/29.
- MattStrat

Well, yeah, he got better from his midget days to his time in Pittsburgh, but I don't think he progressed during his time in Pittsburgh.

He didn’t get better in those years lol he was exactly the same. Hahahah
- j.boyd919

What evidence do you have?

If Dumo is just complimentary can we find another defender to compliment Tanger that can shoot the puck. (frank) he's frustrating.

Talk about ZAR's shot. Dumo's is a (frank)ing layup.

Well, yeah, he got better from his midget days to his time in Pittsburgh, but I don't think he progressed during his time in Pittsburgh.
- jmatchett383

You mean to say that while he was with the Penguins organization he didnt progress at all from his first day in the AHL in 2001 right up until he became a NHL regular in 2006/2007?

If Dumo is just complimentary can we find another defender to compliment Tanger that can shoot the puck. (frank) he's frustrating.

Talk about ZAR's shot. Dumo's is a (frank)ing layup.
- Thorny87

ZAR's shot make's Dumo's look like Al McInnis.

The fact that he didnt get a regular shift until 29 after years of AHL then becoming a top 4 on a Stanley cup team, from watching how good he was in the 2009 run and then with the Kings when they won in 2012...then seeing his play drop off to a point of abomination with the Pens the second time.

What evidence do you have?
- MattStrat

Looking at his AHL numbers, from his 3 or 4 years there, they would have roughly translated to about his career average as an NHLer. So he probably would have been producing just the same had he been in the NHL in his mid-20s, given his AHL stats.

I would argue that management probably screwed him out of more money by keeping him in the AHL longer because he didn’t really “develop.” There was no improvement in his AHL game either.

He probably (I’d have to go back and check out the rosters) was kept off the rosters until he was 29 because the coach/GM thought their were better options ahead of him. Not necessarily because he had to get better per se but because the options were already better than him.

Looking at his AHL numbers, from his 3 or 4 years there, they would have roughly translated to about his career average as an NHLer. So he probably would have been producing just the same had he been in the NHL in his mid-20s, given his AHL stats.

I would argue that management probably screwed him out of more money by keeping him in the AHL longer because he didn’t really “develop.” There was no improvement in his AHL game either.

He probably (I’d have to go back and check out the rosters) was kept off the rosters until he was 29 because the coach/GM thought their were better options ahead of him. Not necessarily because he had to get better per se but because the options were already better than him.
- j.boyd919

Nah. We're talking about the years the Pens were bottom feeders. By all means go back and have a look at those rosters though.

EDIT: so he wasnt good enough for a bottom feeder team back then but then was good enough for an important top 4 shut down role in a Stanley cup run in 2009 on a championship team? Come on man

From 3 pages back...I'll eventually catch up. I like what I've seen in ZAR. I think that there's upside there and feel like he'll eventually be a consistent depth scorer.
- cranktheradio

I'm not sure what evidence you've seen that shows him starting to score goals on a consistent basis.

Quite frequently a call-up will storm in for a few games then come back down to earth and I believe ZAR did just that.

-He's not slow per-se, but he's not a good skater.

-He defends pretty well, but IMO not well enough where he deserves a spot over other "role players" that could be in his spot.

-His shot couldn't break a rocks glass

-He's can be physical, but he's not physical to the point that he brings something they're lacking.

He is a fringe 4th liner IMO and nothing more, but again, that's just my opinion.

ZAR's shot make's Dumo's look like Al McInnis.
- Rinosaur

Meh, ZAR doesn't get half the opportunities Dumo gets game in and game out. Shooting is easily the most fun skill to practice. No excuse for any NHL'er to have a sh!t shot. Especially one who's 6'4 210.

You mean to say that while he was with the Penguins organization he didnt progress at all from his first day in the AHL in 2001 right up until he became a NHL regular in 2006/2007?
- MattStrat

Well I honestly didn't watch any WBS games in the 2001-2006 era. But during his time as a regular with the PITTSBURGH Penguins, which is the Penguins I was referring to, no, I did not see any more than marginal improvement.

Yeah but I am not some jabroni that is ignorant to what DET and PIT have in their systems.
- Feds91Stammer

"I'm not just some guy, Brennan, that is a voice of an angel"

Meh, ZAR doesn't get half the opportunities Dumo gets game in and game out. Shooting is easily the most fun skill to practice. No excuse for any NHL'er to have a sh!t shot. Especially one who's 6'4 210.
- Thorny87

I'm not talking about opportunities. I talking about the quality of the shot.

Dumo's shot at least has NHL velocity. ZAR's shot is slower than mud.

I just had a scary thought... what if they do indeed move Brass and believe in Sheahan and Cullen moving forward?

I feel like we have no real pulse on what management thinks about everyone.
- Rinosaur

Or any semblance of an identity.

We are not a fast team, we're not a young team, we're not a gritty team, and we're a very top heavy skill team. No moves in the last two years show any sort of trend or building towards something.

Though FWIW, I did read on DKs site today, he's heard people in the Pens org talk for the first time about actively trying to get younger.

Nah. We're talking about the years the Pens were bottom feeders. By all means go back and have a look at those rosters though.

EDIT: so he wasnt good enough for a bottom feeder team back then but then was good enough for an important top 4 shut down role in a Stanley cup run in 2009 on a championship team? Come on man
- MattStrat

Actually, my bad. After digging deeper, he didn’t find a regular roster spot until Therrien took over. You know who is coach was in WBS? Yep. Therrien. So it actually makes sense now. Similar to how Sully was loyal to his boys in WBS, Therrien did the same thing.

Or any semblance of an identity.

We are not a fast team, we're not a young team, we're not a gritty team, and we're a very top heavy skill team. No moves in the last two years show any sort of trend or building towards something.

Though FWIW, I did read on DKs site today, he's heard people in the Pens org talk for the first time about actively trying to get younger.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Younger is fine. I would like to see them add some speed and tenacity into the lineup.

If they can grab a player who's got speed, tenacity, decent puck skills and transition game it would be a good get.

I'm not sure what evidence you've seen that shows him starting to score goals on a consistent basis.

Quite frequently a call-up will storm in for a few games then come back down to earth and I believe ZAR did just that.

-He's not slow per-se, but he's not a good skater.

-He defends pretty well, but IMO not well enough where he deserves a spot over other "role players" that could be in his spot.

-His shot couldn't break a rocks glass

-He's can be physical, but he's not physical to the point that he brings something they're lacking.

He is a fringe 4th liner IMO and nothing more, but again, that's just my opinion.
- Rinosaur

I was really, really excited when the Pens landed him for free. After those few games he had last season, I was a big believer he was going to be a huge part of our bottom 6 for the foreseeable future. Sort of like a Hagelin, an elite 3rd liner, if you will.

He was showing more promise than Sprong or Pouliot ever had. But then he got hurt, and then he got concussed...and I don't see the same player we saw last year.

I still believe in him but I have to wonder how big of a toll eating out of a straw and not working out all offseason has on him. We saw how much a bad offseason affected Letang, for instance.

I was really, really excited when the Pens landed him for free. After those few games he had last season, I was a big believer he was going to be a huge part of our bottom 6 for the foreseeable future. Sort of like a Hagelin, an elite 3rd liner, if you will.

He was showing more promise than Sprong or Pouliot ever had. But then he got hurt, and then he got concussed...and I don't see the same player we saw last year.

I still believe in him but I have to wonder how big of a toll eating out of a straw and not working out all offseason has on him. We saw how much a bad offseason affected Letang, for instance.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

When he came in he scored in three games out of sixteen. Not that I was expecting much, but he went thirteen games with almost no activity.

In the playoffs he had 1 assist i the flyers series and nothing in three games he played in WSH.

IMO he's done what I mentioned earlier from other call-ups. Scores a couple of goals when he gets called up then goes bye bye.

He's continuing to nothing yet keeps his spot on the 3rd line while others are more deserving.

I didn't have any strong feelings either way when the Pens signed him other than it's a low-risk high-reward deal. I took a very wait-and-see approach.

When he came in he scored in three games out of sixteen. Not that I was expecting much, but he went thirteen games with almost no activity.

In the playoffs he had 1 assist i the flyers series and nothing in three games he played in WSH.

IMO he's done what I mentioned earlier from other call-ups. Scores a couple of goals when he gets called up then goes bye bye.

He's continuing to nothing yet keeps his spot on the 3rd line while others are more deserving.

I didn't have any strong feelings either way when the Pens signed him other than it's a low-risk high-reward deal. I took a very wait-and-see approach.
- Rinosaur

Who are the others? Now that Sprong is gone I don't really see any players he is blocking.

Younger is fine. I would like to see them add some speed and tenacity into the lineup.

If they can grab a player who's got speed, tenacity, decent puck skills and transition game it would be a good get.
- Rinosaur

Okay, so here is my off-the-wall thought. What if the Pens try to become a 'heavier' type team. I'm not saying Ryan Reaves or goons. And I don't know available names or anything but along the lines of Nick Ritchie, Adam Lowry, Miles wood, E. Kane, Oshie, Virtanen, Boone Jenner, whoever.. every team is now chasing speed. The Pens aren't the fastest team anymore and it will cost less to acquire "grit" guys over youth/speed. .

Maybe surrounding our stars with players that are a pain in the ass to play against is a better recipe than a middle of the pack speed/skill team.

I know the league is getting away from this, but I can almost talk myself into it making sense haha.

Who are the others? Now that Sprong is gone I don't really see any players he is blocking.
- Thorny87

I would honestly put Dea in there over him. I think Dea is a better and more well-rounded player.