Eh. Like most things I think the reality of it lies between the middle of two extremes. He was very hot at the height of his postseason runs. That’s clearly not what he is. His glove hand is ghastly and will prevent him from ever being consistently top level. However, he’s clearly been mentally shook all year and I don’t think he’s that bad over the long haul. The pens just don’t have the luxury of spotting him a twenty game sample size to “find himself” like he’s some skanky co ed sleeping around through a semester abroad.
- stayinthefnnet

Murray was/is young, but the fact is during those 2 cup runs he always had MAF to lean on or be a safety net, once he left it was a much tougher path for him.

Dreager just floated the idea of Simmonds to the Pens. Oh my.

Murray was/is young, but the fact is during those 2 cup runs he always had MAF to lean on or be a safety net, once he left it was a much tougher path for him.
- Glak18

This is true as well. I won’t complain too much about hindsight. They made a cap driven decision in a salary cap league. Sucks now but I’ll acknowledge the thinking

Dreager just floated the idea of Simmonds to the Pens. Oh my.
- hereticpride

Would have loved that for a good number of years. Unfortunately all of those years have now passed. A big no thanks on that one.

This is true as well. I won’t complain too much about hindsight. They made a cap driven decision in a salary cap league. Sucks now but I’ll acknowledge the thinking
- stayinthefnnet

You make that same decision over and over, but the pair together is what really won the cups. I am pretty sure both years the games were shared right and some injuries?

Dreager just floated the idea of Simmonds to the Pens. Oh my.
- hereticpride

I wouldn't worry too much about it, tbh. Unless they made moves, they wouldn't be able to extend him

I wouldn't worry too much about it, tbh. Unless they made moves, they wouldn't be able to extend him
- AllInForFlyers

Thank Christ.

Although I wouldn’t put it past JR to go all in for a rental. Or at least try to anyway. He has no more chips to push to the center

You make that same decision over and over, but the pair together is what really won the cups. I am pretty sure both years the games were shared right and some injuries?
- Glak18

If next year you have a nice tandem of Elliott and hart, with hart ready to blossom. You decide to cash in thd following year and ride that sweet ELC value of Hart’s deal and jettison Elliott for a cheaper backup and hart plummets. Hart would be absolutely vilified for it too and justifiably so. You can’t be the stud while simultaneously needing your security blanket.

Thank Christ.

Although I wouldn’t put it past JR to go all in for a rental. Or at least try to anyway. He has no more chips to push to the center
- stayinthefnnet

I guess I keep waiting for them to cash in Malkin -- that has to happen at some point, right?

They aren't gonna just ride it down the drain, are they? They have to be getting a good idea about what it's gonna look like on the way down, with how this season's gone

Dreager just said Fletcher is looking for a D man and a goalie.
- hereticpride

If there’s some truth to the Quick rumors, maybe Quick + Muzzin for killing 2 birds with 1 stone (trade).

If next year you have a nice tandem of Elliott and hart, with hart ready to blossom. You decide to cash in thd following year and ride that sweet ELC value of Hart’s deal and jettison Elliott for a cheaper backup and hart plummets. Hart would be absolutely vilified for it too and justifiably so. You can’t be the stud while simultaneously needing your security blanket.
- stayinthefnnet

Point taken, but we are talking about a guy who has 2 cups as the starter for the final game. The 2nd cup run I believe is when injuries started. I think it was the right decision to let MAF go, but without MAF during that 2nd cup would the Pens still of won? Obviously injuries are the main factor in all this.

I guess I keep waiting for them to cash in Malkin -- that has to happen at some point, right?

They aren't gonna just ride it down the drain, are they? They have to be getting a good idea about what it's gonna look like on the way down, with how this season's gone
- AllInForFlyers

I just don’t see you ever getting value back in a deal like that to make it worth it.

It’s odd. They still have the hardest parts to acquire that will be good for another two or three years. But they aren’t THAT good anymore to single handedly do it. They aren’t that far off roster wise to me, but when you’re up against the cap with big deals, with absolutely nothing in the way of useful ELCs, you need to make every dollar count. In a vacuum, no jack Johnson no matter how bad he is he cannot derail a franchise. But when you add up his money. Oleksiak. Cullen. It adds up to what you can do.

None of this is surprising and certainly isn’t woe is me. The system is designed to make it hard for people to stay on top. I personally love the cap and the parity it infuses, or at least theoretically tries to. Nothing stays permanent forever. Sports are cyclical, and all fan bases deserve their time in the sun. But the pens certainly aren’t doing themselves any favors with how they’re navigating their last few years of 87 and 71.

Would have loved that for a good number of years. Unfortunately all of those years have now passed. A big no thanks on that one.
- stayinthefnnet

What the cost and would they re-sign him. Simmonds playing with Malkin or Crosby, lights out.

If next year you have a nice tandem of Elliott and hart, with hart ready to blossom. You decide to cash in thd following year and ride that sweet ELC value of Hart’s deal and jettison Elliott for a cheaper backup and hart plummets. Hart would be absolutely vilified for it too and justifiably so. You can’t be the stud while simultaneously needing your security blanket.
- stayinthefnnet

That's part of the dangers of rushing a young goalie. It's such a mental position. Make a change to the comfort level and it's easy to slid downhill. Bring them along slower to the point where they're more mature and stronger mentally and they have a better skill set for dealing with the ups and downs.

That's part of the dangers of rushing a young goalie. It's such a mental position. Make a change to the comfort level and it's easy to slid downhill. Bring them along slower to the point where they're more mature and stronger mentally and they have a better skill set for dealing with the ups and downs.
- MJL

I get all that. If there’s no cap I’m sure that fleury is still there and they’re tandem bicycling right along side. I won’t nexrssarily disagree that he was rushed, but the cap/expansion draft sort of pushed the hand. I skewer a lot of the stupid moves they make, but I just think saying they picked the wrong goalie is a little incomplete of an analysis.

If there’s some truth to the Quick rumors, maybe Quick + Muzzin for killing 2 birds with 1 stone (trade).
- arichardson22

I guess if that's what they did, I'd get behind it. Do I want Quick for all those years? Probably not

But do I want the Flyers to try to ride Hart for 55 games next season? Definitely not

I want the kid to be good and I want the Flyers to win, but holy hell. I don't think it's crazy to get him a few games, I guess. But if it is true that Fletcher is trying to get a goalie still, I can't say that I think he's wrong

That's part of the dangers of rushing a young goalie. It's such a mental position. Make a change to the comfort level and it's easy to slid downhill. Bring them along slower to the point where they're more mature and stronger mentally and they have a better skill set for dealing with the ups and downs.
- MJL

That's why that backup or who the Flyers get to be their goaltender for the next x amount of years is going to be important. Do you bring in a guy who will threaten Hart for the starting job in the future, which could make him better? Do you have a safe choice that that just holds the fort, but makes Hart too content?

What the cost and would they re-sign him. Simmonds playing with Malkin or Crosby, lights out.
- MJL

Do you really think it would be lights out? That has been said before with those two and the results have not been the best.

Do you really think it would be lights out? That has been said before with those two and the results have not been the best.
- Glak18

I don’t know if he is fast enough for Crosby at even strength. I think he would do very well with Malkin, but a line of Malkin kessel and Simmonds would be an event regardless of what team has the puck. On the powerplay him and hornqvist play too similar of roles to where Someone would have to either have minutes reduced or play out of their best spot.

I don’t know if he is fast enough for Crosby at even strength. I think he would do very well with Malkin, but a line of Malkin kessel and Simmonds would be an event regardless of what team has the puck. On the powerplay him and hornqvist play too similar of roles to where Someone would have to either have minutes reduced or play out of their best spot.
- stayinthefnnet

He really needs to go to Toronto -- seriously. They are not gonna beat Boston with what they have, and while they match up slightly better with Tampa or Buffalo without him, at some point they will need the kinds of goals he scores

I'm honest about it: I don't THINK, repeat think, he is the player he was two seasons ago. But he still has enough in the tank to help them win, and they need to pay up

I don’t know if he is fast enough for Crosby at even strength. I think he would do very well with Malkin, but a line of Malkin kessel and Simmonds would be an event regardless of what team has the puck. On the powerplay him and hornqvist play too similar of roles to where Someone would have to either have minutes reduced or play out of their best spot.
- stayinthefnnet

Now that you put it that way...ugh I don't want that line with Simmonds on it.

Move either Simmonds or Horner to the 2nd unit OR since it seems like Crosby, Malkin and Kessel play the full 2 mins just have line changes with the two.

2019 1st Round works for me

Do you really think it would be lights out? That has been said before with those two and the results have not been the best.
- Glak18

Lights out is referring to how good I think Simmonds could be playing with Malkin or crosby.

I don’t know if he is fast enough for Crosby at even strength. I think he would do very well with Malkin, but a line of Malkin kessel and Simmonds would be an event regardless of what team has the puck. On the powerplay him and hornqvist play too similar of roles to where Someone would have to either have minutes reduced or play out of their best spot.
- stayinthefnnet

You can have two PP units.

He really needs to go to Toronto -- seriously. They are not gonna beat Boston with what they have, and while they match up slightly better with Tampa or Buffalo without him, at some point they will need the kinds of goals he scores

I'm honest about it: I don't THINK, repeat think, he is the player he was two seasons ago. But he still has enough in the tank to help them win, and they need to pay up
- AllInForFlyers

In my opinion, in the right situation, Simmonds is still a 30-30 guy.

He really needs to go to Toronto -- seriously. They are not gonna beat Boston with what they have, and while they match up slightly better with Tampa or Buffalo without him, at some point they will need the kinds of goals he scores

I'm honest about it: I don't THINK, repeat think, he is the player he was two seasons ago. But he still has enough in the tank to help them win, and they need to pay up
- AllInForFlyers

I think that would be s tremendous fit for both him and the team. Make no mistake I think his next deal is going to be an anchor for the team that inks it. But for this upcoming postseason, you put him on the leafs and he crushes it there. I’m also not exactly team intangible, but it is a real thing and he would bring it to them in spades. I don’t know what you guys would want or realistically could get for a pure rental, but I don’t think you could pair a better trade marriage in the league than that one.