I dunno... JR did win two cups with us. No guarantee Botts does that.
- Guile

You have your timeline F’ed. Bots would have taken over last year had we allowed JR’s original contract to run out. We would have won the two Cups regardless.

I can say that I fully believe Botts would have the team looking better this season than JR does. That help?
- Guile

It's a lazy argument to me. There's a perception that all the good moves were Botterill and all the bad moves were GMJR. GMJR and Shero both made a fair amount of bad moves while Botterill was here.

Heck, maybe the Jack Johnson signing was something Guerin pushed for. GMJR is on record saying he trusts his staff and scouts to advise him. Point is we dont know what/who is driving every personnel decision.

I have to mention this about the J.O fight because of all the talk. First off, J.O did not get jumped, suckered, or cheapshot.

He was definitely at a pretty big disadvantage though. Wilson was ready to go, decided the time, and knew if he did it by surprise he would have a huge advantage.
For those of us who have a fighting background, I can't stress enough about the mental factor being ready to go, over being surprised.

Yes J.O. dropped the gloves and took the fight out of necessity. It was clean and allowed (however, I would of liked to seen an instigator since it fit the bill).

What I will say is this... you can never predict the fight outcome, but if J.O and Wilson agreed to drop the gloves and properly squared off, the outcome would of had a much greater chance to end up with Wilson on the short end. I say this because of the fights the J.O has had as a Pen. We will never know for sure, but I can tell you Wilson knew his best chance was to pick a spot to surprise Oleksiak and get it done. There is a code that men use when they fight, and it has been in hockey for years... you give the nod and get it done.

Wilson, although not dirty, in my opinion was a scared little school boy that wanted to get J.O before school was out so he didn't have to square off properly after school. Just my 2 cents, but I do have over 45 fights, so I understand the mentality here.
- Putty649

Tom Wilson knocked Oleksiak the f out...end of story.

Tom Wilson knocked Oleksiak the f out...end of story.
- sfischer

You're right he did. When was the last time you seen a fight start like that though? It wasn't of the typical square off or organic type. It was all on Wilson's terms...

You're right he did. When was the last time you seen a fight start like that though? It wasn't of the typical square off or organic type. It was all on Wilson's terms...
- BeefCoon

Wilson had it planned out and wasn’t doing it unless he got the drop on him. Dudes a coward. A big strong fast coward, but a coward none the less.

It's a lazy argument to me. There's a perception that all the good moves were Botterill and all the bad moves were GMJR. GMJR and Shero both made a fair amount of bad moves while Botterill was here.

Heck, maybe the Jack Johnson signing was something Guerin pushed for. GMJR is on record saying he trusts his staff and scouts to advise him. Point is we dont know what/who is driving every personnel decision.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

All GMs make good and bad moves. Just gotta hope the good outweigh the bad. In his first few years, they did. In his last few years, they didn’t.

You have your timeline F’ed. Bots would have taken over last year had we allowed JR’s original contract to run out. We would have won the two Cups regardless.
- Victoro311

Thought Botts left two years ago?

All GMs make good and bad moves. Just gotta hope the good outweigh the bad. In his first few years, they did. In his last few years, they didn’t.
- j.boyd919

I’d still say his net moves are positive.

It's a lazy argument to me. There's a perception that all the good moves were Botterill and all the bad moves were GMJR. GMJR and Shero both made a fair amount of bad moves while Botterill was here.

Heck, maybe the Jack Johnson signing was something Guerin pushed for. GMJR is on record saying he trusts his staff and scouts to advise him. Point is we dont know what/who is driving every personnel decision.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Eh. I'm quite a lazy person. But I do not believe Botts was a 'grit' pursuer which would negate the Reeves and JJ moves.

Wilson had it planned out and wasn’t doing it unless he got the drop on him. Dudes a coward. A big strong fast coward, but a coward none the less.
- Grinder47

Agreed

I’d still say his net moves are positive.
- Rinosaur

Well yeah. Two cups. I’ll be happy for the rest of his tenure because of it hahaha. Having seen 5 cups in my lifetime, along with a few Super Bowls, I’m good.

Well yeah. Two cups. I’ll be happy for the rest of his tenure because of it hahaha. Having seen 5 cups in my lifetime, along with a few Super Bowls, I’m good.
- j.boyd919

Haha same. Some hockey fans never get to see one.

Thought Botts left two years ago?
- Guile

He left i the Spring of 2017 after Cup number 2.

All GMs make good and bad moves. Just gotta hope the good outweigh the bad. In his first few years, they did. In his last few years, they didn’t.
- j.boyd919

I think he’s over 500 penguins career wise.

He left i the Spring of 2017 after Cup number 2.
- Victoro311

I’m pretty sure Bots actually left DURING the second cup run. I think he left like right after the first round, didn’t he?

I’m pretty sure Bots actually left DURING the second cup run. I think he left like right after the first round, didn’t he?
- WSCTeton17

Yeah you’re right. The Sabers asked permission to interview him and Rutherford got a two year extension a couple of months prior so obviously he took it.

Yeah you’re right. The Sabers asked permission to interview him and Rutherford got a two year extension a couple of months prior so obviously he took it.
- Victoro311

So I can pretend Botts wouldn't have done Reeves or JJ, and thus, today's roster would be better.

So I can pretend Botts wouldn't have done Reeves or JJ, and thus, today's roster would be better.
- Guile

Having Reaves on this roster would be better

So I can pretend Botts wouldn't have done Reeves or JJ, and thus, today's roster would be better.
- Guile

You’re right, he probably doesn’t sign Reaves or JJ or even bring Cullen back. He likely doesn’t sign Hunwick either. It’s a lot of speculation for something we can’t undue. Unfortunately these deals are a black smudge.

People can say they’re satisfied with our cup runs and that’s fine because it’s their opinion - but I’m not. My college career was cut short due to a sprained neck which still bothers me over 4 years later and more recently concussions have plagued my personal life away from the game that I love. Maybe some people think it sounds silly, I have a life outside of the game as well, but I love this franchise and to see them struggle because of decisions we made internally is.. disappointing

Having Reaves on this roster would be better
- Grinder47

Over place of who?

You’re right, he probably doesn’t sign Reaves or JJ or even bring Cullen back. He likely doesn’t sign Hunwick either. It’s a lot of speculation for something we can’t undue. Unfortunately these deals are a black smudge.

People can say they’re satisfied with our cup runs and that’s fine because it’s their opinion - but I’m not. My college career was cut short due to a sprained neck which still bothers me over 4 years later and more recently concussions have plagued my personal life away from the game that I love. Maybe some people think it sounds silly, I have a life outside of the game as well, but I love this franchise and to see them struggle because of decisions we made internally is.. disappointing
- WSCTeton17

I’m generally in your camp. I think where I draw the line is hypothetically trading Crosby and/or Malkin to avoid a rebuild and reopen a Cup window. I’d rather them ride off into the sunset as Penguins than do what the Celtics did with Paul Pierce and KG. But beyond that, yeah, let’s get as many Cups as possible while we still can, and seeing the old man piss away these last couple years with bad moves is infuriating

I’m generally in your camp. I think where I draw the line is hypothetically trading Crosby and/or Malkin to avoid a rebuild and reopen a Cup window. I’d rather them ride off into the sunset as Penguins than do what the Celtics did with Paul Pierce and KG. But beyond that, yeah, let’s get as many Cups as possible while we still can, and seeing the old man piss away these last couple years with bad moves is infuriating
- Victoro311

I agree. I don’t ever want to see Sid in another sweater unless it’s Team Canada. I really like Malkin but his effort at times is frustrating. Sometimes it looks like he doesn’t care and that’s hard for me to watch, but I also don’t want that kind of a role model for the kids that I coach. I’ve been complaining about HCMS for quite a while and even though we’re doing alright, I would still rather see Alain Vigneault brought in to work alongside Martin. I think Vigneault has a great mind for teams that are both fast and structurally sound and obviously Martin has always been strong defensively. Gotta have both players and coaches that work to the strengths of our core

Hats off to the boys for last night’s effort. As DK pointed out, they can beat anyone. Problem is they can also lose to anyone. Let’s see which team shows up tonight. Time to focus on a more consistent work ethic. Gotta win your home games.

missed last night's game but that was a quite a save by petterson.

missed last night's game but that was a quite a save by petterson.
- DeflatedPucks

He’s growing on me fast