Terrible signing. Just awful.
- Scoob

JVR is just another, terrible signing, in a list of questionable signings from the previous GM.

Both in all honesty. We have what we have on the ice in large part due to Hextall.
- hereticpride

This team is this bad because of the players, not Hextall. In my opinion.

Not my list but the ones I expect:

JvR
AMac (Partly as Assistant)
Weise
Lehtera
- dragonoffrost

Hardly core players thst have a huge impact on the state of this team. And lehtera with frost farabee looks like a huge win in thst deal.

This team is this bad because of the players, not Hextall. In my opinion.
- MJL

And who's job is it to assemble players that fit and play together?

In reality it's both.
Hexy created this BS mix of players and the players are not performing.
- opeth_pa

The mix of players is something that would keep them from becoming a top team as constituted. The roster was a work in progress. The fact that they're in the basement is in my opinion entirely on the players.

Hardly core players thst have a huge impact on the state of this team. And lehtera with frost farabee looks like a huge win in thst deal.
- Tfaehner

Again I said not my list

I love the Frost/Farabee for Schenn trade.

JVR is just another, terrible signing, in a list of questionable signings from the previous GM.
- ggunky

I just don’t get this hate at times...
Last season we said c’mon Hextall use this cap space we finally have, c’mon SIGN SUMBODY. We sign arguably the 2nd best UFA who is a pure goal scorer, something we also demanded to help our team / depth. Our whole team is basically having a down year and this automatically deems JVR a bad signing.

Again I said not my list

I love the Frost/Farabee for Schenn trade.
- dragonoffrost

I just think this is becoming a scape goat pitty party. Hexy can be argued he didnt do enough to improve the current core. But the pieces he added primarily through the draft are all the players were still excited about. This core has failed under 2 gms and 4 coaches.

I just don’t get this hate at times...
Last season we said c’mon Hextall use this cap space we finally have, c’mon SIGN SUMBODY. We sign arguably the 2nd best UFA who is a pure goal scorer, something we also demanded to help our team / depth. Our whole team is basically having a down year and this automatically deems JVR a bad signing.
- arichardson22

I strongly disagree with that statement.

And who's job is it to assemble players that fit and play together?
- dragonoffrost

It's not the GM's job to look and see who is behind you on a set breakout. It's not the GM's job to not pass the puck across the ice in the neutral zone across 3 defenders. It's not the GM's job to let your check go to the net while you skate out of the defensive zone. It's not the GM's job to hustle back on the back check with the opponent who is standing right next to you in the neutral zone. Or not have your stick in the passing lane, or any other countless and repeated mistakes made over and over. That is why this team is in last place.

It's not the GM's job to look and see who is behind you on a set breakout. It's not the GM's job to not pass the puck across the ice in the neutral zone across 3 defenders. It's not the GM's job to let your check go to the net while you skate out of the defensive zone. It's not the GM's job to hustle back on the back check with the opponent who is standing right next to you in the neutral zone. Or not have your stick in the passing lane, or any other countless and repeated mistakes made over and over. That is why this team is in last place.
- MJL

It's the GM's job when things aren't going well for the 4th coach with this core to make a change to the core. He himself said it was time to take a step forward. They didn't he lost his job for it.

So are we now at the "blow up the entire team and bring in all new players" mindset?
- jmatchett383

I'm open to moving "core" guys if they haven't moved the needle in 4 seasons. G is a top point producer and our captain so, obviously, a little harder to digest. G has a no movement clause or no trade clause so it is just a dream.

We don't know what happens behind closed doors but I have questioned the leadership group these past few years. I believe Lavy or Hitch used to talk about the leaders in the room as the ones responsible for holding each other accountable. I remember a story about Pronger taking a young G to a private area and yelling at him over a stupid turnover before the media came in. I may be wrong but I don't feel that these guys are accountable to each other. It's always, we're frustrated, we have to move on. We'll be better next time. Different GM, different coach, still same core. Still same issues.

I strongly disagree with that statement.
- Scoob

Why’s that? Wouldn’t a pure goal scorer be someone who scores goals as his main role rather than defense or playmaking? Or someone who is capable of scoring goals in many ways Whether it’s wrist/slap/deflected/dirty areas?

It's the GM's job when things aren't going well for the 4th coach with this core to make a change to the core. He himself said it was time to take a step forward. They didn't he lost his job for it.
- dragonoffrost

Hextall has made huge changes to this team since he took over. Starting with clearing up the cap picture and building up the prospect base. That alone took most of Hextall's tenure as GM.They weren't going to take a step forward without young players taking a step forward. Did you think this team would be this bad before the season started? Why should Hextall have thought that? He lost his job because Holmgren lost his patience and it was a big mistake by Holmgren in my opinion.

I'm open to moving "core" guys if they haven't moved the needle in 4 seasons. G is a top point producer and our captain so, obviously, a little harder to digest. G has a no movement clause or no trade clause so it is just a dream.

We don't know what happens behind closed doors but I have questioned the leadership group these past few years. I believe Lavy or Hitch used to talk about the leaders in the room as the ones responsible for holding each other accountable. I remember a story about Pronger taking a young G to a private area and yelling at him over a stupid turnover before the media came in. I may be wrong but I don't feel that these guys are accountable to each other. It's always, we're frustrated, we have to move on. We'll be better next time. Different GM, different coach, still same core. Still same issues.
- cdearth23

Definitely leadership issues with this team.

So are we now at the "blow up the entire team and bring in all new players" mindset?
- jmatchett383

It's sort of ridiculous that their are people saying that.

For as angry as I am at Hextall for building this roster the young possibilities are there.

Giroux to me is the hart of this team. Always there and has always performed even with the 0 points in 3 games. At the end of the season he will be over a PPG.
You have blocks and pieces in Provy, Sanheim, TK and Hart.
While I dont think he is the flashiest piece I put Coots in there.
I honestly would put Hagg in there also. I dont think he will ever be a point producing , flashy dman but as a 4-6 I think he is going to be very solid.

ANYONE BELOW THIS SECTION I WOULD MOVE FOR THE RIGHT DEAL

You have a flashy offensive minded dman in Ghost.
You have players that could turn into building blocks in in Patrick and OL.

Everyone else is movable for the right deal.

I may be wrong but I don't feel that these guys are accountable to each other.
- cdearth23

Statements like this make 0 sense to me.

Other than what you see on the ice or on the bench what knowledge of the team do you have to say someone is or isnt being accountable?

Why’s that? Wouldn’t a pure goal scorer be someone who scores goals as his main role rather than defense or playmaking? Or someone who is capable of scoring goals in many ways Whether it’s wrist/slap/deflected/dirty areas?
- arichardson22

Imho, a "pure goal scorer" scores at a rate far above .326/game. Heck, he barely scores more goals/game than Giroux, but at least Giroux is virtually a ppg player. JVR doesn't even sniff that.

For $7m/year you need to produce. He doesn't.

Statements like this make 0 sense to me.

Other than what you see on the ice or on the bench what knowledge of the team do you have to say someone is or isnt being accountable?
- opeth_pa

My answer to that would other than Hakstol or Hextall being fired, what evidence is there that anyone is being held accountable?

Definitely leadership issues with this team.
- MJL

Which again is something Hextall failed to recognize that cost him his job. They've been inconsistent with this core longer than this season. Wouldn't that be a leadership issue? But nope it's all on the players alone no one can get another leader on this roster to help the ones who aren't doing the job.

Imho, a "pure goal scorer" scores at a rate far above .326/game. Heck, he barely scores more goals/game than Giroux, but at least Giroux is virtually a ppg player. JVR doesn't even sniff that.

For $7m/year you need to produce. He doesn't.
- Scoob

JVR has a .33 career goal/game compared to Giroux’s .29. And typically is above the suggested .326; yes he’s below this year but I’m sure 80% of our team is below their average goals/game. You can’t just use this season, a season which JVR missed a chunk of time, to label who a player is over his career. I would also say most “pure goal scorers” aren’t Ppg players since they aren’t the playmakers or more well rounded like someone like Giroux.

It's sort of ridiculous that their are people saying that.

For as angry as I am at Hextall for building this roster the young possibilities are there.

Giroux to me is the hart of this team. Always there and has always performed even with the 0 points in 3 games. At the end of the season he will be over a PPG.
You have blocks and pieces in Provy, Sanheim, TK and Hart.
While I dont think he is the flashiest piece I put Coots in there.
I honestly would put Hagg in there also. I dont think he will ever be a point producing , flashy dman but as a 4-6 I think he is going to be very solid.

ANYONE BELOW THIS SECTION I WOULD MOVE FOR THE RIGHT DEAL

You have a flashy offensive minded dman in Ghost.
You have players that could turn into building blocks in in Patrick and OL.

Everyone else is movable for the right deal.
- opeth_pa

I keep G, Hart, Coots, Provy, Sanheim, TK, and Hagg. The others should all be on the block for the best you can get. V, Simmonds and Ghost should get a decent return. There is really nobody else on the team that cannot be easily replaced . They are all bottom 6 and lower D men on a good team

JVR has a .33 career goal/game compared to Giroux’s .29.
- arichardson22

Yep. Neither is a "pure goal scorer" imho. Giroux, however, contributes in many other ways that JVR simply does not and cannot. G creates goals for others. G is a great two-way player. JVR is neither.

The mix of players is something that would keep them from becoming a top team as constituted. The roster was a work in progress. The fact that they're in the basement is in my opinion entirely on the players.
- MJL

A bad mix of players is a GM issue.

Which again is something Hextall failed to recognize that cost him his job. They've been inconsistent with this core longer than this season. Wouldn't that be a leadership issue? But nope it's all on the players alone no one can get another leader on this roster to help the ones who aren't doing the job.
- dragonoffrost

There is certainly some mistakes that Hextall made. They shouldn't have cost him his job in my opinion. By far the biggest issues with this team is the players. I said that before Hakstol was fired and I have been proven correct. Again I pose to you the question of did you think the team would be this bad before the season started and what reason did Hextall have to think it would be?