Give it a couple more weeks. Chiarelli might very well be gone by then.
- Wildschwein

Hey! Us Albertans need to stick together. Smith & Czarnik for Talbot. Then lets see what happens, that Czarnik may look like like Jari Kurri on McDavids line if he can make a plug like Chiasson a 25goal scorer.

Give it a couple more weeks. Chiarelli might very well be gone by then.
- Wildschwein

Should just take the keys away from him now so he can’t make anymore deals....still trying to find the logic in the Manning deal

Dude... Talbot and Spooner for Kapanen?

Dubas ain’t Dorion dude.
- Wildschwein

Dubas hasn't proven to be smart either... he's basically the NHL version of Trudeau

Dubas hasn't proven to be smart either... he's basically the NHL version of Trudeau
- Reveen.

time to legalize ....

I talked to some Leafs fans a couple of days ago and the general feeling is while they like Nurse but it’s a RHD that they are really seeking at the moment
- RatedR80

Dubas absolutely loved Nurse in SSM so that's a factor worth considering in weighing the options and, as we know, sometimes the wait for and premium paid for a RHD can make settling on a LD more favourable. It's sad, but we're now desperate enough for talent at forward to be amenable to losing some value from a Dman.

It's by no means ideal and I still appreciate that Nurse is a young top-4 guy but, thanks to the nature of his contract and its negotiation this past summer, I'm not confident he'll bring value equal to what he's hoping to be paid on his next deal.

For me a trade proposal would be

Talbot ( 1.1 mil retained) + Nurse for Kapanen + Hutchinson or < insert d prospect not named Liljegren or Sandin > + conditional 2nd in 2020 if the Leafs make it the SCF otherwise a 3rd.

something like this ish
- dmnted

I would think you would need to up the ante a bit more than that

This Nurse for Kapanen deal in conjunction with a Puljujarvi(+) trade for one of Minnesota's forwards and maybe a move for Burakovsky outta Washington could quickly shore up a bunch of the forward issue while only sacrificing a Dman and accelerating the timeline a bit on Puljujarvi.

Bura- McDavid- Draisaitl
Zucker- Nuge- Kapanen
Rieder- Khaira- Chiasson
Lucic- Brodziak- Kassian

Klefbom- Larsson
Grav/Sek- Russell
Jones- Benning

time to legalize ....
- dmnted

that and hiring people based on gender and ethnicity over actual talent

This Nurse for Kapanen deal in conjunction with a Puljujarvi(+) trade for one of Minnesota's forwards and maybe a move for Burakovsky outta Washington could quickly shore up a bunch of the forward issue while only sacrificing a Dman and accelerating the timeline a bit on Puljujarvi.

Bura- McDavid- Draisaitl
Zucker- Nuge- Kapanen
Rieder- Khaira- Chiasson
Lucic- Brodziak- Kassian

Klefbom- Larsson
Grav/Sek- Russell
Jones- Benning
- MaximumBone

Oh look....two lines that might be able to produce and a bottom 6 that might generate more then one shot on goal (sadly Chiasson is an upgrade on the bottom 6)...Nuge can certainly use the help on the second line especially with Hitch putting Lucic there all the time now....I would like to see them add a 3rd line C and put Khaira back on the wing.....oh I know trolls this is the part where you bring up that we had Strome as a 3rd line C

Oh look....two lines that might be able to produce and a bottom 6 that might generate more then one shot on goal (sadly Chiasson is an upgrade on the bottom 6)...Nuge can certainly use the help on the second line especially with Hitch putting Lucic there all the time now....I would like to see them add a 3rd line C and put Khaira back on the wing.....oh I know trolls this is the part where you bring up that we had Strome as a 3rd line C
- RatedR80

We need to find a way to send Lucic and Chiarelli on the same plane out of Edmonton and right to New Jersey.

I would think you would need to up the ante a bit more than that
- Reveen.

swap Sparks for Hutchinson

but it's a starting point


interested in a Horton?

that and hiring people based on gender and ethnicity over actual talent
- Reveen.

trying to be politically correct? but that's a different topic of the day.

trying to be politically correct? but that's a different topic of the day.
- dmnted

There needs to be a middle ground between the old white boys club and the hired based on gender and ethnicity club.

swap Sparks for Hutchinson

but it's a starting point


interested in a Horton?
- dmnted

I don't think we want 3rd string goalies or future conditional 2nd rounders. We could take Horton for Lucic.

I don't think we want 3rd string goalies or future conditional 2nd rounders. We could take Horton for Lucic.
- Reveen.

It’s a fair trade....both players stats are about equal at the moment

It’s a fair trade....both players stats are about equal at the moment
- RatedR80

It's win / win

There needs to be a middle ground between the old white boys club and the hired based on gender and ethnicity club.
- Reveen.

preach

It’s a fair trade....both players stats are about equal at the moment
- RatedR80

There needs to be a middle ground between the old white boys club and the hired based on gender and ethnicity club.
- Reveen.

I don't know the exact details you're referring to, but their front office and coaching staffs seem to have plenty of white guys if that's a concern. I agree that there's a balance to be struck and I don't think we have the information to suggest that this isn't precisely that balance.

Yes, meritocratic values are key to running a successful operation and should be the gold standard for hiring. However, in an environment where very few women and or men of different ethnicities haven't worked historically, I can see a valid argument for a short term 'solution'. Adopting a set hiring practices in the short term that involve getting these sorts of people the experience needed to compete on more even footing with the carousel of the same old boys club.

Further, I'm not convinced merit is ignored here. The merits of hiring Wickenheiser are self-evident if you believe in the idea of veteran players mentoring youth. Underhill coached Olympic-level skaters iirc. I don't know much about Popovic, but a PhD and a long history of working with and teaching youth in the GTA likely fulfills the required merits for her role. If "diversity" was an intended goal in hiring their staff, then it's more likely that they were instead just faced with two similarly-adept individuals where the fact that they could meet their ideological desire was just the leg up the other guy needed.

I fully understand and agree with the sentiment that the ideology that informs these types of decisions is often a corrupt and naively well-intentioned, but I can see the value of its short-term application in an industry like hockey where the old boys club has reigned unopposed for so long.

I'd love to see Kapanen in an Oilers uniform more so for the impact he might have on getting Jesse to play harder with a fellow Finn on the team pushing him for a winger position. Also Kapenen is excellent on the penalty kill so we can definitely use another quick skater on the PK but he's cheaper to keep and trade Nylander for the Leafs so I see them keeping him and I think a more realistic trade would see Connor Brown come to Edmonton and re-unite with McDavid. He's only got 3 goals this year because he's been given defense responsibilities with a stacked Leafs team but he put up 20 goals and 14 goals the last two years playing with top 2 lines at times.

Nurse has been awful this year based on the expectations, but maybe that's because of the contract and then being thrown into Kelfbom's position but this is a great learning curve for him so he might turn out to be even better next year because he won't have that same first year pressure after signing a deal and playing top minutes. I wouldn't trade him this year because I'm afraid Peter would try to get Jake Gardiner.

Leafs media keeps crying that they need more grit and Kassian is the perfect fit for the Leafs because they don't need offense from him, which he doesn't produce anyways and the cap hit is close to Brown's (only $150,000 difference both for 2 years) so I would do Talbot, Kassian for Connor Brown + 3rd

I'd love to see Kapanen in an Oilers uniform more so for the impact he might have on getting Jesse to play harder with a fellow Finn on the team pushing him for a winger position. Also Kapenen is excellent on the penalty kill so we can definitely use another quick skater on the PK but he's cheaper to keep and trade Nylander for the Leafs so I see them keeping him and I think a more realistic trade would see Connor Brown come to Edmonton and re-unite with McDavid.

Leafs media keeps crying that they need more grit and Kassian is the perfect fit for the Leafs because they don't need offense from him, which he doesn't produce anyways and the cap hit is close to Brown's (only $150,000 difference both for 2 years) so I would do Talbot, Kassian for Connor Brown + 3rd
- Shohei The Money

I don't mind the idea of acquiring Brown, but not with the intention of playing him with McDavid. I'd make that deal to improve our scoring depth. He doesn't really fix our problem of not having top-6 finishers and, beyond that, I'd want Sparks in return if I'm trading them Talbot.

While I understand the view on preferring to keep Kapanen over Nylander on a pure value estimation, they've consistently expressed their commitment to keeping their most skilled players. As such, I'm inclined to think they lean towards keeping those closer to being game-shaping talents.

Should just take the keys away from him now so he can’t make anymore deals....still trying to find the logic in the Manning deal
- RatedR80

They should wipe that dirty mustache off his face too while they're taking the keys and child lock off his office

I don't know the exact details you're referring to, but their front office and coaching staffs seem to have plenty of white guys if that's a concern. I agree that there's a balance to be struck and I don't think we have the information to suggest that this isn't precisely that balance.

Yes, meritocratic values are key to running a successful operation and should be the gold standard for hiring. However, in an environment where very few women and or men of different ethnicities haven't worked historically, I can see a valid argument for a short term 'solution'. Adopting a set hiring practices in the short term that involve getting these sorts of people the experience needed to compete on more even footing with the carousel of the same old boys club.

Further, I'm not convinced merit is ignored here. The merits of hiring Wickenheiser are self-evident if you believe in the idea of veteran players mentoring youth. Underhill coached Olympic-level skaters iirc. I don't know much about Popovic, but a PhD and a long history of working with and teaching youth in the GTA likely fulfills the required merits for her role. If "diversity" was an intended goal in hiring their staff, then it's more likely that they were instead just faced with two similarly-adept individuals where the fact that they could meet their ideological desire was just the leg up the other guy needed.

I fully understand and agree with the sentiment that the ideology that informs these types of decisions is often a corrupt and naively well-intentioned, but I can see the value of its short-term application in an industry like hockey where the old boys club has reigned unopposed for so long.
- MaximumBone

I am 100% all for diversity in the work place and I have always seen women and men as equals. I am 100% against hiring token workers to appear PC.

I'm sure Wickenhieser was hired on merit but Dubas sure liked the positive press it garnered.

I'd love to see Kapanen in an Oilers uniform more so for the impact he might have on getting Jesse to play harder with a fellow Finn on the team pushing him for a winger position. Also Kapenen is excellent on the penalty kill so we can definitely use another quick skater on the PK but he's cheaper to keep and trade Nylander for the Leafs so I see them keeping him and I think a more realistic trade would see Connor Brown come to Edmonton and re-unite with McDavid. He's only got 3 goals this year because he's been given defense responsibilities with a stacked Leafs team but he put up 20 goals and 14 goals the last two years playing with top 2 lines at times.

Nurse has been awful this year based on the expectations, but maybe that's because of the contract and then being thrown into Kelfbom's position but this is a great learning curve for him so he might turn out to be even better next year because he won't have that same first year pressure after signing a deal and playing top minutes. I wouldn't trade him this year because I'm afraid Peter would try to get Jake Gardiner.

Leafs media keeps crying that they need more grit and Kassian is the perfect fit for the Leafs because they don't need offense from him, which he doesn't produce anyways and the cap hit is close to Brown's (only $150,000 difference both for 2 years) so I would do Talbot, Kassian for Connor Brown + 3rd
- Shohei The Money

Sold in a heart beat

I am 100% all for diversity in the work place and I have always seen women and men as equals. I am 100% against hiring token workers to appear PC.

I'm sure Wickenhieser was hired on merit but Dubas sure liked the positive press it garnered.
- Reveen.

Never questioned your beliefs in those things It's counter-productive to assume anyone who raises a question about the modern social orthodoxy is ignorant, stupid or bigoted solely for raising a concern.

I don't doubt that there's Dubas and Co. derived some measure of pleasure out of the virtue signalling that hiring a more diverse set of people achieved, but I maintain that it's unreasonable to suggest with confidence that this is an example of the implementation of an unfair equality of outcome doctrine.