I have no problem with the Pens moving on from some players and certainly don't agree with RW on everything. I didn't always complain when some of the followings guy got the axe. But can we not see something wrong with the fair shake and mike sullivan not being picture perfect (just like disco daniel).

Player. Games/TOI. Age when traded. Most common linemates in year traded at EVS.

Bennett. Got 129 games. 1616min TOI. Traded at age 24. Kunitz, Bonino, Crosby.
Despres. Got 144 games. 2290min TOI. Traded at age 23. Scuderi, Letang, Ehrhoff
Pouliot. Got 67 games. 1101min TOI. Traded at age 23. Duomolin, Maatta, Schultz.

Sprong. Got 63 games. 406min TOI. Traded at 21. Sheahan, Cullen, Rust, Grant.
- DeflatedPucks

Bennett was eventually traded for nothing, Despres was traded for a marginal return, (We dumped Lovejoy previously for a 5th) Pouliot was traded for nothing

Rather than Spoon feed Sprong top linemates to pump up his stats and hide his bad play they cut bait and got a young, promising Dman with some upside in return

We got nothing like a Petterson for the aforementioned 3

They did a good job in this case identifying a limited player and moving him when they could at least still receive some tangible value

Listen, no one saying Sprong is this great player, but there's no such thing as an un-usesful 20-30 goal scorer if the rest of the team around him is sound enough to cover his deficiencies. Same thing with a dude like Hagelin who's all around game is great but is literally incapable of scoring. You can stand to have him in your top 6 when you've also got dudes like Evgeni Malkin and Phil Kessel to shoulder the scoring burden. Not every guy is gonna be this perfect two way player.

I don't blame Ruth here. The trade was fine in so far that we got a competent role player back for a dude that was getting scratched on the reg. But in a perfect world Sprong would have been given a longer leash before dumping him for Marcus Pettersson.
- Victoro311

Like I said, He's useful when you're down 5-2 or when you need a goal in the final minute, because at that point you have nothing to lose. If he get a goal, youre back in the game, if he gets scored against, oh well, you were probably going to lose anyways

He can't be relied upon in close games because it's more likely he's going to be on the ice for a goal against, then he is on a goal for, and that all the difference right there.

You can't just give him spot duty every couple of games when the team has nothing to lose. A regular shift for Sprong is akin to throwing a Hail Mary on every play. His poor defensive play puts an undue burden on better players like Crosby, Guentzel, Malkin, etc to cover up his deficiencies. Do you want Crosby or Malkin hanging back and playing D because Sprong is cherry picking by the other teams blueline? You want Crosby burning out his legs on the backcheck trying to put backpressure on Sprongs man that got away?

They tried putting Sprong with Sheahan, Rust, Brass, Cullen, etc because, in theory, those players could make up for Sprongs lack of defense.... In these cases Sprong proved NOT to be offensive enough to make these lines playable or able to produce

Like I said, He's useful when you're down 5-2 or when you need a goal in the final minute, because at that point you have nothing to lose. If he get a goal, youre back in the game, if he gets scored against, oh well, you were probably going to lose anyways

He can't be relied upon in close games because it's more likely he's going to be on the ice for a goal against, then he is on a goal for, and that all the difference right there.

You can't just give him spot duty every couple of games when the team has nothing to lose. A regular shift for Sprong is akin to throwing a Hail Mary on every play. His poor defensive play puts an undue burden on better players like Crosby, Guentzel, Malkin, etc to cover up his deficiencies. Do you want Crosby or Malkin hanging back and playing D because Sprong is cherry picking by the other teams blueline? You want Crosby burning out his legs on the backcheck trying to put backpressure on Sprongs man that got away?

They tried putting Sprong with Sheahan, Rust, Brass, Cullen, etc because, in theory, those players could make up for Sprongs lack of defense.... In these cases Sprong proved NOT to be offensive enough to make these lines playable or able to produce
- RoloTahmasee

He wasn’t tried with Brassard though and I think that’s my issue. I had been calling for it the entire year before he got traded. He got put with Cullen and Sheahan who he was never gonna be successful with. Sprong’s not a grinder. His cycling was subpar. Putting him with dudes that are at their best when they’re unit is cycling the puck in the O Zone and aren’t offensively creative was doomed to fail. Grant, Brassard has kind of sucked so I have no clue if Sprong would have done any better with him, but at least if he failed with Brassard we could have been able to say that there was a good faith effort to put Sprong in a position to succeed and he just didn’t make the cut.

He wasn’t tried with Brassard though and I think that’s my issue. I had been calling for it the entire year before he got traded. He got put with Cullen and Sheahan who he was never gonna be successful with. Sprong’s not a grinder. His cycling was subpar. Putting him with dudes that are at their best when they’re unit is cycling the puck in the O Zone and aren’t offensively creative was doomed to fail. Grant, Brassard has kind of sucked so I have no clue if Sprong would have done any better with him, but at least if he failed with Brassard we could have been able to say that there was a good faith effort to put Sprong in a position to succeed and he just didn’t make the cut.
- Victoro311

Vic, who would you target in a Brassard trade? I think Dallas could be a fit. Or do you think we just hold onto him and upgrade on the wing?

Vic, who would you target in a Brassard trade? I think Dallas could be a fit. Or do you think we just hold onto him and upgrade on the wing?
- WSCTeton17

I am honestly at a complete loss when it comes to Brassard. He’s sucked here but I don’t know who to target that would be available, gettable with our meh assets, and a clear upgrade, and as much as I like Sheahan, playing him at 3C is not ideal so I don’t think just dumbing Brassard for futures would be a good idea. I think our best option is to ride him out and hope he starts clicking, although there’s no real reason to expect him to just magically wake up and be good again at this poin.

Rhino likes Panik, and I think that’d be a good get if that’s realistic at all, but he’s primarily a wing. Someone mentioned Schenn from the Blues but I really have no clue how’d we’d get him.

From what I gathered from my friend who is the strength coach in WBS. He told me they got rid of Sprong more because they didnt put up with his behaviors with the big team. Apparently he wasn't really a team player and he would go off in practice or even leave the ice early if he didnt like something or if the coaches got on him about something. He had a bigger leash in the minors. Many hoped he would have an attitude adjustment before he went up to the big league sitting next to Malkin and Crosby, but he didn't really respect anyone and Sullivan didn't like his immaturity and lack of respect for coaching and for teammates.

And I didn’t come here to argue your point for you. You said they’ve done it against better teams and you’ve illustrated exactly 1 time against a different team

Personally, unless we replace Brass I’d rather see Sheahan at 4C and give Wilson a shot on the 3rd line
- WSCTeton17

There were more than a few times they were 100% or at least positive. I'd much prefer Sheahan at 4C, but he's getting so grossly misused I've given up lol

From what I gathered from my friend who is the strength coach in WBS. He told me they got rid of Sprong more because they didnt put up with his behaviors with the big team. Apparently he wasn't really a team player and he would go off in practice or even leave the ice early if he didnt like something or if the coaches got on him about something. He had a bigger leash in the minors. Many hoped he would have an attitude adjustment before he went up to the big league sitting next to Malkin and Crosby, but he didn't really respect anyone and Sullivan didn't like his immaturity and lack of respect for coaching and for teammates.
- 123Kid

Well if that’s the case that’s really cut and dry and there’s not much else to do. Having a source from the actual coaching staff saying it is a lot easier to believe than Yohe and Mackey peddling propaganda for their friends in the FO.

I am honestly at a complete loss when it comes to Brassard. He’s sucked here but I don’t know who to target that would be available, gettable with our meh assets, and a clear upgrade, and as much as I like Sheahan, playing him at 3C is not ideal so I don’t think just dumbing Brassard for futures would be a good idea. I think our best option is to ride him out and hope he starts clicking, although there’s no real reason to expect him to just magically wake up and be good again at this poin.

Rhino likes Panik, and I think that’d be a good get if that’s realistic at all, but he’s primarily a wing. Someone mentioned Schenn from the Blues but I really have no clue how’d we’d get him.
- Victoro311

Pretty much agree on everything here. As much as we may dislike players sometimes, you don't want to just move them without a proper replacement.

Schenn would have to cost quite a bit and I doubt the Pens have what STL would want. There are no dynamite prospects in the Pens system and a 1st round pick is likely to be in the bottom ten.

Panik should be doable and probably cost less than Ferland I'd think.

I have no problem with the Pens moving on from some players and certainly don't agree with RW on everything. I didn't always complain when some of the followings guy got the axe. But can we not see something wrong with the fair shake and mike sullivan not being picture perfect (just like disco daniel).

Player. Games/TOI. Age when traded. Most common linemates in year traded at EVS.

Bennett. Got 129 games. 1616min TOI. Traded at age 24. Kunitz, Bonino, Crosby.
Despres. Got 144 games. 2290min TOI. Traded at age 23. Scuderi, Letang, Ehrhoff
Pouliot. Got 67 games. 1101min TOI. Traded at age 23. Duomolin, Maatta, Schultz.

Sprong. Got 63 games. 406min TOI. Traded at 21. Sheahan, Cullen, Rust, Grant.
- DeflatedPucks

Didn't GMJR screw up by keeping Sprong on the roster too long after he signed his ELC? He'd probably still be in our system if he were still waiver exempt. Whether he would have ever gotten a chance is debatable, but they could have kept him 'til he was 23 if they didn't start the clock on him.

From what I gathered from my friend who is the strength coach in WBS. He told me they got rid of Sprong more because they didnt put up with his behaviors with the big team. Apparently he wasn't really a team player and he would go off in practice or even leave the ice early if he didnt like something or if the coaches got on him about something. He had a bigger leash in the minors. Many hoped he would have an attitude adjustment before he went up to the big league sitting next to Malkin and Crosby, but he didn't really respect anyone and Sullivan didn't like his immaturity and lack of respect for coaching and for teammates.
- 123Kid

THIS

There's a reason guys who have scoring acumen fall to the late 2nd round and can't crack the lineup/end up in the coaches doghouse

Guys who refuse to be coached and think they know better, or are better than the coaches will never fit in. Superstar players might get away with it, but when youre 21 and unproven, you are setting yourself up for a journeyman career and out of the league before you know it

Didn't GMJR screw up by keeping Sprong on the roster too long after he signed his ELC? He'd probably still be in our system if he were still waiver exempt. Whether he would have ever gotten a chance is debatable, but they could have kept him 'til he was 23 if they didn't start the clock on him.
- madmike71

Yeah. He should have just kept him or sent him back. I think HCMJ had a lot to do with how things panned out. MJ killed all offense on this team.

Yeah. He should have just kept him or sent him back. I think HCMJ had a lot to do with how things panned out. MJ killed all offense on this team.
- Rinosaur

It’s (frank)ing impressive how bad Johnston was as an NHL coach. Thank God Rutherford pulled the trigger quick on his tenure.

Yeah. He should have just kept him or sent him back. I think HCMJ had a lot to do with how things panned out. MJ killed all offense on this team.
- Rinosaur

Honestly, this goes back to the disconnect with JR and his coaches. It doesn't seem like they're ever on the same page when it comes to players.

Vic, who would you target in a Brassard trade? I think Dallas could be a fit. Or do you think we just hold onto him and upgrade on the wing?
- WSCTeton17

I'd like to see Brass go and somehow get Jeff Carter here

There are probably better options that Carter, but the 5 million Cap hit seems affordable for a 3C that can produce

Brass for Carter then let the Kings flip Brass for a 1st at the deadline?

Would there have to be a sweetener on either side?

Honestly, this goes back to the disconnect with JR and his coaches. It doesn't seem like they're ever on the same page when it comes to players.
- madmike71

That's a tricky thing. Most coaches don't want any interference from management on who to use and how to use them. Different teams have different dynamics between the Coach and GM.

From my POV I feel like there's a good relationship between JR and MS, but obviously certain points of resistance.

Yeah. He should have just kept him or sent him back. I think HCMJ had a lot to do with how things panned out. MJ killed all offense on this team.
- Rinosaur

I think the rub at the time is they felt that Sprong was too good to play in junior and wasn't eligible for the AHL, so by keeping him with the big club they felt they could develop his game better than another year in the firewagon, no defense, QMJHL

Also, factor in the lineup at the time. This was pre Rust, Sheary, Guentzel, Kessel, etc

We were desperate on the wings and had nothing that looked like it could reliably produce. Hoping for lighting in a bottle and they shortly figured out why 30 teams passed on Sprong once and 15 more passed on him twice

That's a tricky thing. Most coaches don't want any interference from management on who to use and how to use them. Different teams have different dynamics between the Coach and GM.

From my POV I feel like there's a good relationship between JR and MS, but obviously certain points of resistance.
- Rinosaur

I think they have a good relationship, but it seems like a pretty inefficient way to manage the personnel.

I'd like to see Brass go and somehow get Jeff Carter here

There are probably better options that Carter, but the 5 million Cap hit seems affordable for a 3C that can produce

Brass for Carter then let the Kings flip Brass for a 1st at the deadline?

Would there have to be a sweetener on either side?
- RoloTahmasee

I’d be pretty cool with Carter if there was a trade to be had that doesn’t sacrifice any of our rostered forwards

I’d be pretty cool with Carter if there was a trade to be had that doesn’t sacrifice any of our rostered forwards
- Victoro311

Not to mention retaining some salary. I don't love his contract due to term. He'll be 38 when it's done.

Not to mention retaining some salary. I don't love his contract due to term. He'll be 38 when it's done.
- Rinosaur

We have three years to win a Cup. All else is irrelevant.

We have three years to win a Cup. All else is irrelevant.
- Victoro311

My concern is his age and impending decline.

TIOPS reporting the Pens may have interest in Chris Tierny for 3C.

I think the rub at the time is they felt that Sprong was too good to play in junior and wasn't eligible for the AHL, so by keeping him with the big club they felt they could develop his game better than another year in the firewagon, no defense, QMJHL

Also, factor in the lineup at the time. This was pre Rust, Sheary, Guentzel, Kessel, etc

We were desperate on the wings and had nothing that looked like it could reliably produce. Hoping for lighting in a bottle and they shortly figured out why 30 teams passed on Sprong once and 15 more passed on him twice
- RoloTahmasee

This might be true, but at the time MJ showed little inclination into giving Sprong a regular role.

All I'm asking is a little communication....

GMJR - "Hey Mike, I'm thinking of keep Sprong with the big club. He's shown a little promise and we're weak at wing".

MJ - "OK Jim, but I hate that weird dude. Actually everybody hates that weird dude and I'm going to scratch him until he cries".

GMJR - "Whelp, I guess I should just send him back to the Q where he'll play".

On Reaves...

GMJR - "Hey Sully, I'm thinking about trading our 1st and Sundqvist for one year Ryan Reaves".

Sully - "Sounds good Jimmy, but I'm going treat that useless goon like stinky diaper and he'll average about 6 minutes a night. Honestly I'd really like someone better than Carter Rowney.....'cause that guy blows".

GMJR - "Whelp, If that's the case I think I'll just keep the pick and draft somebody that might actually play at some point".

TIOPS reporting the Pens may have interest in Chris Tierny for 3C.
- Rinosaur

Tierny is the exact kind of player Ottawa should want to keep, So it would have to be player for player