Ahoy-hoy.
Just popping in to remind Gravyhead and Sunto that Gardiner still sucks.
- UsernameUnknown

I think at some point we need to note that the grass isn't always greener.

Every defenseman sucks. Just like every goalie who didn't make a save sucks. These are thankless jobs.

When you look at the Leafs, if it's not Rielly, he sucks on D. Last game, I was shocked to see Babcock SPECIFICALLY match Hainsey against the Avs top line. And then completely not surprised when they blew right by him - like everyone else has done all year.

I am not surprised when Zaitsev misses a 10 foot pass that results in an icing. I am not surprised when Z is out position, or chasing someone behind the goal line. I am not surprised when Ozhiganov misses a pass that results in icing.

We all really like Dermott, but he has absolutely sucked when facing good competition. He's not ready for prime time minutes yet.

Gardiner is a giveaway machine. But he's nowhere near the worst. He's 31st in Giveaways / 60. Doughty is 4th. Muzzin is 5th. Hainsey is 9th, Rielly is 12th, Zaitsev 14th. Dermott, by the way, is 23rd.

You can add me to the list of people who need reminding.

Gardiner makes absolutely painful boneheaded plays. And this year he has not been offsetting those plays with his typical offensive flair, but he is providing far more value to the team than he's being given credit for.

and the year after that, and the year after that...
- senstroll

Maybe, who knows.

I think at some point we need to note that the grass isn't always greener.

Every defenseman sucks. Just like every goalie who didn't make a save sucks. These are thankless jobs.

When you look at the Leafs, if it's not Rielly, he sucks on D. Last game, I was shocked to see Babcock SPECIFICALLY match Hainsey against the Avs top line. And then completely not surprised when they blew right by him - like everyone else has done all year.

I am not surprised when Zaitsev misses a 10 foot pass that results in an icing. I am not surprised when Z is out position, or chasing someone behind the goal line. I am not surprised when Ozhiganov misses a pass that results in icing.

We all really like Dermott, but he has absolutely sucked when facing good competition. He's not ready for prime time minutes yet.

Gardiner is a giveaway machine. But he's nowhere near the worst. He's 31st in Giveaways / 60. Doughty is 4th. Muzzin is 5th. Hainsey is 9th, Rielly is 12th, Zaitsev 14th. Dermott, by the way, is 23rd.

You can add me to the list of people who need reminding.

Gardiner makes absolutely painful boneheaded plays. And this year he has not been offsetting those plays with his typical offensive flair, but he is providing far more value to the team than he's being given credit for.
- Monkeypunk

Gardiner doesn't see the comp some of those guys do...a little more this year but still not the same.

I think at some point we need to note that the grass isn't always greener.

Every defenseman sucks. Just like every goalie who didn't make a save sucks. These are thankless jobs.

When you look at the Leafs, if it's not Rielly, he sucks on D. Last game, I was shocked to see Babcock SPECIFICALLY match Hainsey against the Avs top line. And then completely not surprised when they blew right by him - like everyone else has done all year.

I am not surprised when Zaitsev misses a 10 foot pass that results in an icing. I am not surprised when Z is out position, or chasing someone behind the goal line. I am not surprised when Ozhiganov misses a pass that results in icing.

We all really like Dermott, but he has absolutely sucked when facing good competition. He's not ready for prime time minutes yet.

Gardiner is a giveaway machine. But he's nowhere near the worst. He's 31st in Giveaways / 60. Doughty is 4th. Muzzin is 5th. Hainsey is 9th, Rielly is 12th, Zaitsev 14th. Dermott, by the way, is 23rd.

You can add me to the list of people who need reminding.

Gardiner makes absolutely painful boneheaded plays. And this year he has not been offsetting those plays with his typical offensive flair, but he is providing far more value to the team than he's being given credit for.
- Monkeypunk

It's the timing of the mistakes..

Missing a 5 foot pass, which results in an icing means absolutely nothing if your C is able to win the faceoff that came about because of that icing.

I think at some point we need to note that the grass isn't always greener.

Every defenseman sucks. Just like every goalie who didn't make a save sucks. These are thankless jobs.

When you look at the Leafs, if it's not Rielly, he sucks on D. Last game, I was shocked to see Babcock SPECIFICALLY match Hainsey against the Avs top line. And then completely not surprised when they blew right by him - like everyone else has done all year.

I am not surprised when Zaitsev misses a 10 foot pass that results in an icing. I am not surprised when Z is out position, or chasing someone behind the goal line. I am not surprised when Ozhiganov misses a pass that results in icing.

We all really like Dermott, but he has absolutely sucked when facing good competition. He's not ready for prime time minutes yet.

Gardiner is a giveaway machine. But he's nowhere near the worst. He's 31st in Giveaways / 60. Doughty is 4th. Muzzin is 5th. Hainsey is 9th, Rielly is 12th, Zaitsev 14th. Dermott, by the way, is 23rd.

You can add me to the list of people who need reminding.

Gardiner makes absolutely painful boneheaded plays. And this year he has not been offsetting those plays with his typical offensive flair, but he is providing far more value to the team than he's being given credit for.
- Monkeypunk

I now see the error of my ways.

Gardiner is Bobby Orr somehow reincarnated.

My apologies.

soooo anybody else sick of Jake Gardiner talk?

Really looking forward to the day he is no longer on the team.

https://www.nhlnumbers.com/team-salaries/toronto-maple-leafs-salary-cap

Anyone know why Sandin isn't listed?

Shouldn't he be counting towards the cap?
- Atomic Wedgie

I believe he's technically on lone from his Swedish Elite League club... .perhaps as a result of that he's like an AHL only contract... not NHL elligible.

soooo anybody else sick of Jake Gardiner talk?

Really looking forward to the day he is no longer on the team.
- senstroll

No

I now see the error of my ways.

Gardiner is Bobby Orr somehow reincarnated.

My apologies.

- UsernameUnknown

I'm sorry. Your comment is that he sucks. My comment is that he doesn't suck as bad as you're implying. That translates into my saying he's Bobby Orr?

Do you always make such egregious jumps in logic?

Bottom line: Yeah, you can get rid of Gardiner, but who do you replace him with realistically? There's no one in-house that's ready. The cost to upgrade on Gardiner is going to cost assets no one wants to pay.

He's also our second best defenseman, so love it or lump it. That's not his fault.

Unpopular opinion. Dermott isn't a top-4 guy yet.

Unpopular opinion. Dermott isn't a top-4 guy yet.
- AdamFrench

#truthhurts

soooo anybody else sick of Jake Gardiner talk?

Really looking forward to the day he is no longer on the team.
- senstroll

20 years ago. The same was said about Larry Murphy. He was blamed for everything that happened behind the Leaf blueline, then once traded to the Wings, promptly went on two Cup runs and was a main cog on the Wing Blueline.

Not defending Gardiner, he has a lot of defensive weaknesses. Just make sure before you run him outta town....that you have somebody who can take his minutes...and do it better. If not, shhhhhh.

Gardiner doesn't see the comp some of those guys do...a little more this year but still not the same.
- Garnie

That's fair. The Leafs don't have the benefit of someone like San Jose who have a real shut down guy like Vlasic, which allows their offensive guys to flourish a bit more. Granted not many teams do.

But Gardiner is still played heavy minutes against decent opposition.

I would never say he doesn't do stupid and impaired things. Because I also swear at my television when he's on the ice. But he's not as bad as everyone wants to make out. And the people we would get who would play a similar game would also make mind numbing mistakes that make you swear at your television.

Remember that most teams don't play the style of play where the offense just (frank)s off and yells over their should to the D, "Pass it up here, through those 4 guys!"

No
- AdamFrench

figures

That's fair. The Leafs don't have the benefit of someone like San Jose who have a real shut down guy like Vlasic, which allows their offensive guys to flourish a bit more. Granted not many teams do.

But Gardiner is still played heavy minutes against decent opposition.

I would never say he doesn't do stupid and impaired things. Because I also swear at my television when he's on the ice. But he's not as bad as everyone wants to make out. And the people we would get who would play a similar game would also make mind numbing mistakes that make you swear at your television.

Remember that most teams don't play the style of play where the offense just (frank)s off and yells over their should to the D, "Pass it up here, through those 4 guys!"
- Monkeypunk

Would you go so far as to say he's the bread and butter of their defence corps?

Would you go so far as to say he's the bread and butter of their defence corps?


- TrashPanda

BOOOOO!

That's fair. The Leafs don't have the benefit of someone like San Jose who have a real shut down guy like Vlasic, which allows their offensive guys to flourish a bit more. Granted not many teams do.

But Gardiner is still played heavy minutes against decent opposition.

I would never say he doesn't do stupid and impaired things. Because I also swear at my television when he's on the ice. But he's not as bad as everyone wants to make out. And the people we would get who would play a similar game would also make mind numbing mistakes that make you swear at your television.

Remember that most teams don't play the style of play where the offensive just (frank)s off and yells over their should to the D, "Pass it up here, through those 4 guys!"
- Monkeypunk

I think he's come a long way since he started here. I've always said he stops moving his feet when he gets to the puck and it costs him big time. Other then that I don't have too many complaints about him anymore.

Not ALL people. Remember....Tanner promotes Gardiner as one of the TOP D-men in the entire NHL!!!!

So, there's that.....


- hawk35

Stopped reading this after "Tanner...."

I think he's come a long way since he started here. I've always said he stops moving his feet when he gets to the puck and it costs him big time. Other then that I don't have too many complaints about him anymore.
- Garnie

That's because he can't move his feet and think about what he's going to do with the puck at the same time...

Unpopular opinion. Dermott isn't a top-4 guy yet.
- AdamFrench

He is certainly better than the 3 others we could put there..

I think at some point we need to note that the grass isn't always greener.

Every defenseman sucks. Just like every goalie who didn't make a save sucks. These are thankless jobs.

When you look at the Leafs, if it's not Rielly, he sucks on D. Last game, I was shocked to see Babcock SPECIFICALLY match Hainsey against the Avs top line. And then completely not surprised when they blew right by him - like everyone else has done all year.

I am not surprised when Zaitsev misses a 10 foot pass that results in an icing. I am not surprised when Z is out position, or chasing someone behind the goal line. I am not surprised when Ozhiganov misses a pass that results in icing.

We all really like Dermott, but he has absolutely sucked when facing good competition. He's not ready for prime time minutes yet.

Gardiner is a giveaway machine. But he's nowhere near the worst. He's 31st in Giveaways / 60. Doughty is 4th. Muzzin is 5th. Hainsey is 9th, Rielly is 12th, Zaitsev 14th. Dermott, by the way, is 23rd.

You can add me to the list of people who need reminding.

Gardiner makes absolutely painful boneheaded plays. And this year he has not been offsetting those plays with his typical offensive flair, but he is providing far more value to the team than he's being given credit for.
- Monkeypunk

all fine and good.

here's the problem in a nutshell.

1) Gardiner's confidence is shot
2) Gardiner's next contract virtually guarantees he will not be a Leaf come July 2nd.
3) Gardiner crapped the bed in the playoffs last year
4) Gardiner - whether fairly or not has lost the confidence of the fan base... and we all know this is steep publically exposed hill to try and climb back up...
5) Gardiner's offensive flair has essentially disappeared

big question - should Dubas move on from him now or take the chance of going to the playoffs with him?

20 years ago. The same was said about Larry Murphy. He was blamed for everything that happened behind the Leaf blueline, then once traded to the Wings, promptly went on two Cup runs and was a main cog on the Wing Blueline.

Not defending Gardiner, he has a lot of defensive weaknesses. Just make sure before you run him outta town....that you have somebody who can take his minutes...and do it better. If not, shhhhhh.
- hawk35

We also said the same about Polak and Paul Ranger.

We've done alright without them.

We also said the same about Polak and Paul Ranger.

We've done alright without them.
- walshyleafsfan

Hawks fan as well. If I was a Hawks fan, I would want the Leafs to keep Gards as well.

I'm sorry. Your comment is that he sucks. My comment is that he doesn't suck as bad as you're implying. That translates into my saying he's Bobby Orr?

Do you always make such egregious jumps in logic?

Bottom line: Yeah, you can get rid of Gardiner, but who do you replace him with realistically? There's no one in-house that's ready. The cost to upgrade on Gardiner is going to cost assets no one wants to pay.

He's also our second best defenseman, so love it or lump it. That's not his fault.
- Monkeypunk

Honestly dude I was just (frank)ing around. Gardiner doesn't suck. I've said that a lot over the past couple days. He's a pros/Cons kinda guy. His cons just happen to be much more frequent and severe than the average D. He still brings good to the table.
He is indeed our second best D, but that's not a good thing. That's a problem. But he'll be gone next year and it's up to Dubas to find a replacement that improves the D overall.

He is certainly better than the 3 others we could put there..
- bixll

Welcome to the Leafs...Alex Edler!