Seidenberg is one of only 3 blueliners drafted by the Flyers in the 2000's to have what you could call a significant NHL career until they picked Ghost in 2012.

The other 2 are Joni Pitkanen and Luca Sbisa.
- johndewar

Woywitka didn't have a terrible career.

No one wants to hear this, but I feel compelled to say my piece. It is possible that Stolarz is traded in the next few weeks.

I lobby for a Hart - Lyon tandem for next season for several reasons. I think Lyon is a better goalie (stops pucks) than any goalie that can be acquired on the open market for a short term contract. Secondly, I believe he is not only slightly better than Stolarz, he has less risk over time for games lost to injury. Third, it is very unlikely that the rest of the hockey world is a daft as some are about Lyon. He won’t clear waivers.

Bill Meltzer is an exception to what I am about to say; as you’ll notice, he mentioned Lyon in his blog today. (Thank you!) I read a dozen different articles yesterday about Hart going down, Stolarz being recalled, the Phantoms goaltending for this weekend, the Flyers organizational goaltending options for next season...amazingly not one of those even mentioned Lyon. How can you even have an intelligent comment on Phantom goaltending without him? They must have blackout blinders on.

It’s possible the Flyers trade Lyon also this off season. If so, good for him, he deserves a better opportunity at an NHL job. He doesn’t deserve to be scoffed at and overlook. He has the potential to be a very good NHL goaltender. I said it before...what is the point of spending years developing your own goaltending prospects? It’s great that we have Hart but we can’t throw caution to the wind now.
- NC Flyers Fan[/quote]


Not sure what you see but I think Lyon is kind of a tweener. Maybe he can fill in a couple games but I just don't see NHL potential. I can see it in Stolarz if healthy.

Next year, if you want to complete, you need a vet to pair with Hart. You can't go into next season like you did this year.

I don't think the league would step in until there was a rule in place. For example, the league had to wait a few years before they were able to put a stop to cap-recapture contracts. And the league doesn't stop teams from trading back assets they lost in RFA bids like the Gratton deal.

As for the if Vegas doesn't trade back the players.... that is a risk, obviously, but I guess it all depends on if the GMs trust each other.
- youarewrong

There was no rule in place about back-diving contracts at the time when NJ signed Kovalchuk, but that didn't stop the league from voiding the contract and imposing penalties on the Devils.

No one wants to hear this, but I feel compelled to say my piece. It is possible that Stolarz is traded in the next few weeks.

I lobby for a Hart - Lyon tandem for next season for several reasons. I think Lyon is a better goalie (stops pucks) than any goalie that can be acquired on the open market for a short term contract. Secondly, I believe he is not only slightly better than Stolarz, he has less risk over time for games lost to injury. Third, it is very unlikely that the rest of the hockey world is a daft as some are about Lyon. He won’t clear waivers.

Bill Meltzer is an exception to what I am about to say; as you’ll notice, he mentioned Lyon in his blog today. (Thank you!) I read a dozen different articles yesterday about Hart going down, Stolarz being recalled, the Phantoms goaltending for this weekend, the Flyers organizational goaltending options for next season...amazingly not one of those even mentioned Lyon. How can you even have an intelligent comment on Phantoms goaltending without him? They must have blackout blinders on.

It’s possible the Flyers trade Lyon also this off season. If so, good for him, he deserves a better opportunity at an NHL job. He doesn’t deserve to be scoffed at and overlooked. He has the potential to be a very good NHL goaltender. I said it before...what is the point of spending years developing your own goaltending prospects? It’s great that we have Hart but we can’t throw caution to the wind now.
- NC Flyers Fan

IMO Lyon has career AHL starter potential. I think he is serviceable if necessity dictates he has to back-up and start a few NHL games. However, Stolarz, Sandstrom, and Errson all have higher potentials. IMO Stolarz seems like a competent NHL backup given enough time and if he can stay healthy. Sandstrom could be anything from and AHL goalie to NHL All-star but most likely a fringe starter. Errson IMO has at least NHL back-up potential.

The point is, Lyon is kind of becoming the odd man out. He may survive the goalie purge just because Stolarz might get traded or picked up on waivers.

There was no rule in place about back-diving contracts at the time when NJ signed Kovalchuk, but that didn't stop the league from voiding the contract and imposing penalties on the Devils.
- jmatchett383

There were rules about those contract when he left though. It took the league a long time of watching these contracts before putting a stop to it. They may have to suffer a few of these trades before they step in and stop the trades....

IMO the league is asking for it. First off these are the most favorable expansion drafting rules. Part of that is because teams can make trades with the expansion team. If your going to allow this again, and allow Vegas to not lose any players, teams should be able to bend the rules to get around these any tough loss they have.

There were rules about those contract when he left though. It took the league a long time of watching these contracts before putting a stop to it. They may have to suffer a few of these trades before they step in and stop the trades....

IMO the league is asking for it. First off these are the most favorable expansion drafting rules. Part of that is because teams can make trades with the expansion team. If your going to allow this again, and allow Vegas to not lose any players, teams should be able to bend the rules to get around these any tough loss they have.
- youarewrong

You see I wasnt impressed with stoly or Lyon until this year stoly looked up to his potential. But hes thrown glimpses before. Not long ago people were saying sandstrom could turn into the stud goalie over hart. He still could become very good. And you forgot ustimenko. Who also has NHL potential. It's one of our absolute organizational strengths.

Maybe, show me where its not though...
- youarewrong

This is how they handled trading players lost in the last expansion back to their old teams - they couldn't be traded back till after Jan 1:

https://thecomeback.com/n...lost-expansion-draft.html

I assume it will be similar.

This is how they handled trading players lost in the last expansion back to their old teams - they couldn't be traded back till after Jan 1:

https://thecomeback.com/n...lost-expansion-draft.html

I assume it will be similar.
- FlyersGrace

Missing his point, Vegas is not the expansion draft team. Maybe all players have a trade back date?

IMO Lyon has career AHL starter potential. I think he is serviceable if necessity dictates he has to back-up and start a few NHL games. However, Stolarz, Sandstrom, and Errson all have higher potentials. IMO Stolarz seems like a competent NHL backup given enough time and if he can stay healthy. Sandstrom could be anything from and AHL goalie to NHL All-star but most likely a fringe starter. Errson IMO has at least NHL back-up potential.

The point is, Lyon is kind of becoming the odd man out. He may survive the goalie purge just because Stolarz might get traded or picked up on waivers.
- youarewrong

Lyon could still become an NHL backup one day, he just needs to capitalize on chances and play better when in the NHL to find a spot.

I like Lyon but I wouldn't go in to next season with him and Hart as the two NHL goalies. Use the abundant cap space to get a good veteran on a short term deal.

This is how they handled trading players lost in the last expansion back to their old teams - they couldn't be traded back till after Jan 1:

https://thecomeback.com/n...lost-expansion-draft.html

I assume it will be similar.
- FlyersGrace

Thank you for finding that.

I'm sure NHL teams could still find a way around this a bit. For example... Lets just say Flyers need to leave Voracek free and Ottawa has to leave Duchene. Ottawa and Philly trade both player to the Knights before the draft, then Ottawa gets Voracek and Flyers get Duchene and Knights walk away with a comp pick..... Your not getting the same players back, but now you dont have to worry about only taking back ED exempt players for an 80 pt per season player.

I don't think the league would step in until there was a rule in place. For example, the league had to wait a few years before they were able to put a stop to cap-recapture contracts. And the league doesn't stop teams from trading back assets they lost in RFA bids like the Gratton deal.

As for the if Vegas doesn't trade back the players.... that is a risk, obviously, but I guess it all depends on if the GMs trust each other.
- youarewrong

Review the Kovalchuk-Devils contract situation.

Missing his point, Vegas is not the expansion draft team. Maybe all players have a trade back date?
- ClaudeFather

Nice catch. Point is there are ways around some of this, but I hope its JVR.

Review the Kovalchuk-Devils contract situation.
- MJL

No thanks, you do it.

IMO Lyon has career AHL starter potential. I think he is serviceable if necessity dictates he has to back-up and start a few NHL games. However, Stolarz, Sandstrom, and Errson all have higher potentials. IMO Stolarz seems like a competent NHL backup given enough time and if he can stay healthy. Sandstrom could be anything from and AHL goalie to NHL All-star but most likely a fringe starter. Errson IMO has at least NHL back-up potential.

The point is, Lyon is kind of becoming the odd man out. He may survive the goalie purge just because Stolarz might get traded or picked up on waivers.
- youarewrong

Lyon isn’t flashy or big...but those attributes aren’t required to be a good NHL goaltender. Those attributes are what casual observers key off of to make their judgments. I simply think there is a lot more to it than both fans and some media outlets seem to think. More than that, most people whether they are conscious of it or not, are influenced by the public opinion rather than forming their own judgment based on as much actual observations and fact as is available.

Lyon isn’t flashy or big...but those attributes aren’t required to be a good NHL goaltender. Those attributes are what casual observers key off of to make their judgments. I simply think there is a lot more to it than both fans and some media outlets seem to think. More than that, most people whether they are conscious of it or not, are influenced by the public opinion rather than forming their own judgment based on as much actual observations and fact as is available.
- NC Flyers Fan

So you use your gut feeling...got it.

Nice catch. Point is there are ways around some of this, but I hope its JVR.
- youarewrong

He's starting to heat up, i think he is going to be a good add for this team.

No thanks, you do it.
- youarewrong

I don't need to. I already know what happened and how that situation refutes your previous statement.

There were rules about those contract when he left though. It took the league a long time of watching these contracts before putting a stop to it. They may have to suffer a few of these trades before they step in and stop the trades....

IMO the league is asking for it. First off these are the most favorable expansion drafting rules. Part of that is because teams can make trades with the expansion team. If your going to allow this again, and allow Vegas to not lose any players, teams should be able to bend the rules to get around these any tough loss they have.
- youarewrong

Yes, the rules existed when he left, and yes it wasn't the first, but the Devils didn't violate any rule. Basically, the NHL has supreme power to nix anything they don't like (like when the BlackBerry guys wanted to but AZ and move them to GTA, and the NHL put a team-specific relocation fee of $200M on them).

I agree that it's in the existing team's best interests to do this to "protect" additional players. But again, you think the league will stand by and let teams do this to its newest marking tool? And if you take the, "Well, the league is asking for it," approach, the league will not take it sitting down.

I'm not saying I know this, but it's what I think will happen. I would not tempt fate. The league has shown that they won't allow these pre-orchestrated "okay, do this deal, and then reverse the deal with a mid-round pick a week later," type deals before (the last ED precluded these last time).

Yes, the rules existed when he left, and yes it wasn't the first, but the Devils didn't violate any rule. Basically, the NHL has supreme power to nix anything they don't like (like when the BlackBerry guys wanted to but AZ and move them to GTA, and the NHL put a team-specific relocation fee of $200M on them).

I agree that it's in the existing team's best interests to do this to "protect" additional players. But again, you think the league will stand by and let teams do this to its newest marking tool? And if you take the, "Well, the league is asking for it," approach, the league will not take it sitting down.

I'm not saying I know this, but it's what I think will happen. I would not tempt fate. The league has shown that they won't allow these pre-orchestrated "okay, do this deal, and then reverse the deal with a mid-round pick a week later," type deals before (the last ED precluded these last time).
- jmatchett383

In terms of contract specific rules, the Devils didn't do anything different than many other teams did as I'm sure you well know. They just went to an extreme and the NHL decided to put their foot down. There is a wide ranging rule under the umbrella of cap circumvention in the CBA that basically says the NHL decides what Cap circumvention is, even if there isn't a specific rule. That's what they did and what they could do again.

I don't need to. I already know what happened and how that situation refutes your previous statement.
- MJL

I'm not getting into a 20 page debate with you today because of 1 case in 100 years of NHL history that has nothing to do with the fact teams find ways around rules all the time.

I'm not saying I know this, but it's what I think will happen. I would not tempt fate. The league has shown that they won't allow these pre-orchestrated "okay, do this deal, and then reverse the deal with a mid-round pick a week later," type deals before (the last ED precluded these last time).
- jmatchett383

I agree that the league wont allow it.....plus you'd have so many other teams crying foul that it would for sure be penalized and stopped.

The kovy thing got squashed after teams pushed the NHL to far....I'd be afraid they would not only negate the moves, but there would be some draft pick penalties.

Yes, the rules existed when he left, and yes it wasn't the first, but the Devils didn't violate any rule. Basically, the NHL has supreme power to nix anything they don't like (like when the BlackBerry guys wanted to but AZ and move them to GTA, and the NHL put a team-specific relocation fee of $200M on them).

I agree that it's in the existing team's best interests to do this to "protect" additional players. But again, you think the league will stand by and let teams do this to its newest marking tool? And if you take the, "Well, the league is asking for it," approach, the league will not take it sitting down.

I'm not saying I know this, but it's what I think will happen. I would not tempt fate. The league has shown that they won't allow these pre-orchestrated "okay, do this deal, and then reverse the deal with a mid-round pick a week later," type deals before (the last ED precluded these last time).
- jmatchett383

I think the league and teams would have to go to arbitration over it at the least because teams do things to prevent the rules all the time... you dont think Coyotes trading for Prongers contract to get to the league minimum even though they knew he would never play a game again isn't bending the rules?

It would be a slippery slope, and I do think that instead of trading a player and getting the same guy back, the better idea is to use VGK as an "offshore account" to hold 2 players traded for each other until after the draft. Absolutely nothing the league could do about that.

I’m assuming the protected from Seattle are..,

Giroux, Voracek, Couturier, Konecny, Patrick, Laughton and Lindblom
Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim
Hart

This is assuming Simmonds is already traded and everyone still hates JvR?

In this case, they take Hagg?

So how could the league stop the below from happening....

After the playoffs:
Flyers trade Voracek to VGK for a 3rd round pick.
Ottawa trades Duchene to VGK for a 4th round pick.

After the expansion draft:
VGK trades Voracek to Ottawa for a 3rd round pick.
VGK trades Duchene to Flyers for a 2nd round pick.

VGK turns a 3rd & 4th into a 2nd & 3rd... or whatever the cost is. They are completely legal trades.